Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

It takes science to time travel, and anyway, CERN mainly invented the Internet as the World Wide Web. Yes sure, it was Arpanet or something like that used for military, but actually CERN, and a couple people (names I forget but can look up) started what we use as the Internet!

Oh here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

The collective network gained a public face in the 1990s. In August 1991 Tim Berners-Lee publicized his new World Wide Web project, two years after he had begun creating HTML, HTTP and the first few web pages at CERN in Switzerland. A few academic and government institutions contributed pages but the public did not begin to see them yet. In 1993 the Mosaic web browser version 1.0 was released, and by late 1994 there was growing public interest in the previously academic/technical internet. By 1996 the word "Internet" was common public currency, but it referred almost entirely to the World Wide Web.


It still would be speculation about JT or any future though, just opinons being given out by various people! And with some scientist it is not a debate worth being considered, especially the ones that are working in String Theory, which is what JT said led to the development of his gravity distortion device.

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Actually, I was too busy at the time of the postings, so anything I said, is just really not with it at that time. Now, I have other problems, and this World is like I am on a merry-go-round and nothing is getting better from my viewpoint.

In other words while attempting to get air in my bicycle yesterday, I came across a business (drug testing or something like that) where a Church asked to use part of the landscaping and was growing food in a large garden to help feed people, by growing crops in that garden!

Actually things have dropped way off in this Country, and the food from a garden probably will be better anyway.
But as to donations of food, I guess, they are not getting enough food to help out some people either. That is about where I feel I am at right now.

I deleted what I had typed earlier explaining it all since it was all depressing. Yes, it did concern me, but actually it was about some others to, with an attitude, and that attitude is what is being talked about on forums and by Churches, and even the Southern Baptist Church lately now, among other people.

So that is the short version of the attitude of some people in this Country.
Right now, a vehicle that was running fine one moment fell apart the next moment, and I am suppose to be working after being on a week's vacation, now I am sitting here taking all my vacation waiting for the automechanics to fix an old vehicle, while it seems that the junk yard may only carry some parts any more if you can find anything for my vehicle. It's engine was only used for two years, and although it is similiar to some other ones later on, it still is the same thing. Because of vehicle designs, parts sometimes are hard to come by, especially when they change things over the years. Yes, they do use essentially the same thing mainly for a few years, but when parts wear down, they wear down.

So I must go, for this discussion to me is depressing right now! And I do not see the need for a video, and I also made a comment about that in the thread.

Entertaining to me it is not, perhaps, the most -- interesting -- but then, the end result is -- not amusing anymore -- from my point of view!
The only thing I can say is I have went through it in a sense already, and no one would want to probably live where I do, which also needs fixing.

Like some other movies, showing the rural of say like Australia, and things broken down, it kind of reminds one of the '30's or something, and well, mainly a lot of people were working in the Great Depression, but still 25-30 % were not. There were social programs that worked better back then, because the Churches explained that they can not handle it all!

Aggressive capitalism is what I call it, and to me, it does not work, but it is an attitude.
I took some programming, and it takes a large investment to get anywhere with it, and it takes a long time, to program anything, but yet, some people think that a program can be written out by next week. In college that is correct because even then the programs are simple, but also using things that one is learning and it is all written out in the text book in the first place.

When you have to find out the information, read through a bunch of things, program a certain way, and then see if it works, after all of that, programming is not simple out of a textbook anymore, and it takes years of work to get to that point of knowing advanced programming. Then it seems like investors think that it should happen tomorrow. It will not, and money has to be invested first. That is why some games come out, and require 3-4 patches to the programming to fix the mistakes. It is not that simple, and the money made can help, but only if one makes money from the game in the first place.

I mean, look at this place -- a game may be ranked like 2238 or whatever, out of 16, some thousands games in all! Not all games are making money!

And that is not what I can do anyway for a living it seems. I am older, and people put out of work lately, can not even get that far. I made it, and I am not bragging in any sense of the word, just explaining it all, and typing too much on this computer waiting to see if my old vehicle can be fixed. Earlier in life, one can fix the dang thing, and use it, now some electronic component goes bad when it heats up too much, and the auto mechanics can not find the problem, and it seems here lately that they are going through everything else, except replacing all the electronic components that woud affect that part of the vehicle running. That is not really wrong, what is wrong, is whether one can even get parts anymore for the vehicle after Clinton, who changed it from 10 or more for parts, to 8 years. Sorry, but a lot of people do not even make enough anymore to buy a new vehicle in 8 years or even more, and vehicle sells have dropped off, and people laid off from their job also here lately.

When you can not afford it like some other people, you can not afford it. Afterall, even a Church is growing food in a large garden at some business place, to help out feed the hungrey people. Othewise all this landscaping and grass seems to be a waste of space lately with landscaping. It is not functional, it is image, and image is not everything, like the importance put on it lately.

Well, I got to go, and really have not time to discuss anything, since things have now changed and a lot of people recently are all going through this. The only thing good, is I may be able to retire in a few years, but then, that has changed and I am not sure even about that anymore.
As people keep saying, politics is out of touch, and out of reality with it all!

Oh, I see some mistakes but right now I do not have time to correct those mistakes, and I must get off the computer, in case, I am called.
Take it all with a grain of salt, for life changes eventually for all people.

Oh, the game place I mentioned but forgot the link:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy.html

Now they even have a commercial there now, and that has changed.
Gees!
TV, I do not need, and commercials may be life and selling, but really too much time I think is given to some things that no one wants to see!
Life has changed, and life is not the same as it was before, but will some people see it that way -- I doubt it!
Just blink the commercial for 5 seconds or something, no one really has the time to watch and view it all anymore. And if I may say, you probably will not miss it, as much as you thought that you might!
I am tired, and have to go!

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

link: http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/24/mad.c....cow.ap/index.h...

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tests have confirmed mad cow disease in a U.S. cow previously cleared of having the brain wasting illness, the Agriculture Department said Friday. It is the second case of mad cow disease in the United States.

An internationally recognized laboratory in Weybridge, England, confirmed the case of mad cow disease after U.S. tests produced conflicting results, Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns said.

Human health was not at risk, Johanns said. The animal was a "downer," meaning it was unable to walk. Such animals are banned from the food supply.

New tests were ordered two weeks ago. Those results came back positive, leading officials to seek confirmation from the Weybridge lab. The department also performed more tests at its lab in Ames, Iowa.

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

About China but not the original site, so I do not know if it really is a News Article or just some comments instead:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1429404/posts

China could buy Australia, or something similiar!
Or Colonize it!

Original article:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-6-23/29770.html

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Debate

The other link was to a sci american article about making those little tiny black holes, reported as one of the Hot Stories that was about something else on the coasttocaostam.com link the other day:

Actually two articles about what they think now, and perhaps, even others can be found there:

http://www.sciamdigital.com/browse.cfm?seq...E79A&sc=I100322

They had a link to it at this article below but now, the article appears to be to subscribers only, and the above link is just the beginning of it instead:

Inconstant Contstants: (that may change also shortly in the future and only be for subscribers)
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa...96583414B7F0000

Hard to keep up with anything nowadays, I guess!

Now it is June instead of May!

Anyway, it appeared as if they would not quite be the same as a black hole out in space, but something similiar, but that is still not a singularity, and that, that is only the center of a black hole that is does not also include the event horizons. So............................ I do not know!

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Let There Be Light,

I think you are way off base here. You can bet your last American Dollar that once rational Science Minded Individuals, like scientists with the proper degrees, read over the titor debacle, they will classify it as :Science Fiction / Fantasy, Good Read, Take with Rainy Afternoon.

No one had been able to prove anything here, ESPECIALLY time travel.

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Debate!

I did not say that JT was real, at any time, just saying that restructering is going on with respect to the going ons. What other people think about it, may be a concern though?

Now since JT was citing that it was 'freedom' and not 'security' that some people (whom I do not know either, perhaps -- democrats ??), the way that the world is viewed may be altered somewhat to say the least, depending on what some other people may think about all of this. I have no decision either on this, as it is not a copout, I actually have no decision yet on this, and that is what that also means. I am not jumping to conclusions being in the forest, while the entire forest may be changing, while I was only looking at things from a certain perspective, while I should have noticed further out, that the forest was not going to be the same, although I could not tell that, in my little section of the forest while I was looking there in the local area, or in the immediate area, while the global forest was burning down, and it had not just yet reached my area, but the smoke was thickening, and it was not a camp fire causing it!

 

[Apogee]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Hi Folks,

Been following with interest this meandering debate and find myself increasingly frustrated with what I see as the leaps of logic many here seem to substitute for good old fashioned reason.

In the midst of all these paranoid certainties of political catastrophe and spurious speculations on the world of physics, might I suggest a new tack? Instead of debating the (fantastic) possibilities of time travel, why not spend a bit more time on the much more mundane (but barely better understood) area of the human desire to perpetrate the 'hoax.' Not to mention the almost limitless capacity of people through the ages to believe just about anything as long as its sold to them with a degree of plausibility?

As P.T. Barnum put it 'There's one born every minute.'

Allow me to interject a parallel here with another famous case involving the extraordinary claims of one individual.

This one, too, took many years before its most ardent proponents became disillusioned and agreed that it was all...

(as the encyclopaedia entry puts it)

...a load of old cobblers!

Enjoy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski


And for those who see no common threads between this hoax and the Titor one, may I point out that there are many more examples where this one came from.


In fact I would say that the line...

"many of his supporters became disaffected and his reputation rapidly declined."

tends to be repeated over and over again when it comes to the more outlandish claims of various 'paranormal' figures of the fifties. George and his Venusians must have been more than plausible back then in the same way that Titor's stuff may well seem relevant and hit all the right spots with us culturally at the moment - but I wonder just how the accuracy of his science and his political viewpoint will seem fifty years from now?

Given that Adamski had very widespread support worldwide for his claims, but is now universally dismissed as a crackpot...I wonder if there are those here who would defend his claims in 2005, despite what we now know and despite Occam's razor (and common sense) suggesting that for whatever reason, George just made it all up?

 

[pauli]

Re: John Titor Debate!

\"Given that Adamski had very widespread support worldwide for his claims, but is now universally dismissed as a crackpot...I wonder if there are those here who would defend his claims in 2005, despite what we now know and despite Occam's razor (and common sense) suggesting that for whatever reason, George just made it all up?\"

Hi Apogee,

Yes, it is very very possible the whole thing is a complete hoax. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I believe, however, that people continue on with following this for reasons of their own, which may not relate at all to whether or not they believe this guy to be a time traveler. Some people continue to discuss these things because Titor brought up some subjects that are near and dear to their hearts. Others like the whole "conspiracy" edge to the writings. Still others are pi$$ed off that he talks about a 3rd World War that will destroy much of the world and it scares them. Then you have the people who are dedicated to finding the guy and stringing him up (albeit virtually). My point is that people are coming here, even at this late date, to discuss the postings for a multitude of reasons - and not so much always because they believe in what he said.

What I find fascinating is the flexibility of the postings and how others interpret them to their own worldview. You have those who are convinced that Titor's politics and predictions are based upon their own political persuations - despite what side of the fence you are on. The writer, whether intentionally or not, left huge holes in which a person could project their own world view. I have seen people from the political left and the political right argue that Titor was talking about their point of view. The whole psychological end of this keeps me interested and amused. But if you want to tear things apart, hey, there's room for you too. Which, to my mind, is why this is the "hoax" that will never die...

...Or, at least, not yet.

Speaking of things coming from the political right - which at times on this board can be pretty unrepresented - I came across the following article. I thought some of the author's points were a bit Titoresque:


http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story193.htm

<span style='color:#003366'>\"INDEPENDENCE DAY\" 2005: HOW INDEPENDENT ARE WE?</span>

Author: 3 books on education and data-trafficking since 1991, including the internationally acclaimed <a href=\'http://www.newswithviews.com/HNB/Hot_New_Books9.htm\' target=\'_blank\'><span style=\'color:black\'>Cloning of the American Mind: Eradicating Morality Through Education</a>. Executive Director, National Education Consortium. Website: <a href=\'http://www.beverlye.com/\' target=\'_blank\'>BeverlyE.com</a>
E-Mail: <a href=\'mailto:[email protected]\'>[email protected]</a>
</span></span>
[/center]
​

</span>
<span style=\'color:black\'>I shared the link so everyone can view for themselves the sort of periodical/webboard page it comes from.

 

[Mudpuppy]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"pauli\")</div>

In my 1998 book, Cloning of the American Mind, in a section subtitled ?A Game Called Religion,? I describe a typical curriculum that treats religion as a silly diversion.

[/b]

Iteresting article Pauli. Doesn't the above statement seem eerily similar to Karl Marx's "Religion is the opiate for the masses"? Of course, nowadays, I think television and the internet come in as a close second to religion as being an opiate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Hi Folks,

Been following with interest this meandering debate and find myself increasingly frustrated with what I see as the leaps of logic many here seem to substitute for good old fashioned reason.

In the midst of all these paranoid certainties of political catastrophe and spurious speculations on the world of physics, might I suggest a new tack? Instead of debating the (fantastic) possibilities of time travel, why not spend a bit more time on the much more mundane (but barely better understood) area of the human desire to perpetrate the 'hoax.' Not to mention the almost limitless capacity of people through the ages to believe just about anything as long as its sold to them with a degree of plausibility?

As P.T. Barnum put it 'There's one born every minute.'

Allow me to interject a parallel here with another famous case involving the extraordinary claims of one individual.

This one, too, took many years before its most ardent proponents became disillusioned and agreed that it was all...

(as the encyclopaedia entry puts it)

...a load of old cobblers!

Enjoy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski


And for those who see no common threads between this hoax and the Titor one, may I point out that there are many more examples where this one came from.


In fact I would say that the line...

\"many of his supporters became disaffected and his reputation rapidly declined.\"

tends to be repeated over and over again when it comes to the more outlandish claims of various 'paranormal' figures of the fifties. George and his Venusians must have been more than plausible back then in the same way that Titor's stuff may well seem relevant and hit all the right spots with us culturally at the moment - but I wonder just how the accuracy of his science and his political viewpoint will seem fifty years from now?

Given that Adamski had very widespread support worldwide for his claims, but is now universally dismissed as a crackpot...I wonder if there are those here who would defend his claims in 2005, despite what we now know and despite Occam's razor (and common sense) suggesting that for whatever reason, George just made it all up?[/b]

Hi Apogee,
Well, not being one to argue over the cookiness of Adamski, I don't think you can really compare him to Titor. Yes, there is a sucker born every minute....but does that mean that we compare Heaven's Gate to the yet to appear Second Coming of Christ as an elaborate hoax perpetrated by the Christian church for profit, power, etc...? (no, I'm not saying that...I'm just using it as an illustration). Adamski being a crackpot doesn't necessarily imply that Titor is a crackpot. Is it a story with some holes? Yep. But the bible (Old and New Testament) has holes. The Koran has holes. The first landing of man on the moon has holes. Alot of things has holes. We are right to question but not very bright to always throw the baby out with the bathwater. Quatum Phyics is always changing. What we don't understand about Titor's story today may be understood in a year from now as Cern makes new discoveries, other scientists making decision reversals the way Hawking did, perhaps, Tippler coming out of the closet about a few things.....whose to say. I'm sure Galileo was thought a crackpot when first challenging Aritstole's views......Marconi for "inventing" radio waves in his mind that others could not see,....Tesla for his inventions.....an on and on....you see, the history books are also full of so-called "crackpots" whose futuristic visions changed our world. Where would we be now without those "crackpots?"