People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

[Judge Bean]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Originally posted by StarLord@Nov 9 2004, 10:35 PM
We need that cartoon of the \"Bill\" with the voice of that trumpet player, showing us how a law actually gets made. Thats about as close to reality as we can get for this question. I never thought I would be thanking ABC Rock.

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They say that you really don't want to know how a law is made any more than you want to know how sausage is made.

 

[Darkwolf]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Actually its worse than that. To get rid of the electoral college we'd need a constitutional ammendment which is much more difficult than just passing a law.

 

[Judge Bean]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

That's true. To make sausage, you don't need the consent of two-thirds of both houses of Congress followed by ratification by three-fourths of the States. Then again, a sausage poses very little threat to democracy.

 

[Timmy G]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Many democracies around the world have copied the American system; none has copied the Electoral College.

For a quick history lesson, the Electoral College was designed by the Framers of the Constitution to give us a mechanism to elect the president by the people, at least indirectly. At the time, we were a population of approximately 4 million people scattered along the Atlantic coast with extremely limited communications and transportation. Direct election wasn't practical. A factor they considered was that direct election of the president by the popular vote gave the people too much power. The original Electoral College began with Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.

In Afghanistan, the recent presidential election was determined by popular vote. The same will be true when elections are held in Iraq.

......... if this magical thing is so good for us, then why isn't anyone else doing it?

 

[CaryP]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

The real threat to the democratic process represented by Bush is in the form of his political advisor Karl Rove, Vice President Cheney, and the collection of amoral conspirators surrounding him and feeding him advice without any accountability. You can't impeach Karl Rove. These people are urging Bush daily to circumvent or just plain ignore the Constitution, and they have so far been successful and he has done what they want. Well, how could he do otherwise?

I agree Paul. And what are we supposed to do about this? The neocons have hijacked the current administration. Chency's hand is so far up W's butt, that he can taste the flavor of soap Cheney used that morning. W is shielded from any negativity so the boy can keep his happy face on. The Constitution is slowy being shredded. At what point do people begin to hold the Bushco responsible? My guess is when the economy and financial markets collapse. 2005 and 2006 are looking like a financial black hole. Just my thoughts.

Cary

 

[Judge Bean]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Originally posted by CaryP@Nov 10 2004, 12:54 AM

The real threat to the democratic process represented by Bush is in the form of his political advisor Karl Rove, Vice President Cheney, and the collection of amoral conspirators surrounding him and feeding him advice without any accountability. You can't impeach Karl Rove. These people are urging Bush daily to circumvent or just plain ignore the Constitution, and they have so far been successful and he has done what they want. Well, how could he do otherwise?

I agree Paul. And what are we supposed to do about this? The neocons have hijacked the current administration. Chency's hand is so far up W's butt, that he can taste the flavor of soap Cheney used that morning. W is shielded from any negativity so the boy can keep his happy face on. The Constitution is slowy being shredded. At what point do people begin to hold the Bushco responsible? My guess is when the economy and financial markets collapse. 2005 and 2006 are looking like a financial black hole. Just my thoughts.

Cary

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When Bush tumbles from four million votes high, the earth will be shattered and we will get four or five terms of presidents who are so pure that Jimmy Carter will look like Al Capone.

 

[Darkwolf]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

When Bush tumbles from four million votes high, the earth will be shattered and we will get four or five terms of presidents who are so pure that Jimmy Carter will look like Al Capone.

Tumbles how? He can't be voted out, hes leaving in 09 anyway. Impeachment? With this congress, not likely. Unless a whole bunch of people wake the heck up, Bush ticking people off will just get the right wing extremeists replaced with a bunch of left wing extremists who come after liberty from the other angle.

 

[Unintentional]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Nov 5 2004, 05:07 PM

When the NWO comes knocking on Boston's door, we will see flight, fight, and people who quiver when you mention Revere or Throeau, Lexington or Concord will be on the nightly corporate news

With what? Spit wads, or is the Mass legislature working on regulating those too.

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Actually I love what Tim Wilson said. "When they outlaw all the guns you can go to Home Depot and get an air gun and a claw hammer. With a couple of feul cells and a couple pound of nails you can keep the government off your property for hours!" :lol:

 

[Unintentional]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Originally posted by Timmy G@Nov 9 2004, 07:41 PM

Many democracies around the world have copied the American system; none has copied the Electoral College.

For a quick history lesson, the Electoral College was designed by the Framers of the Constitution to give us a mechanism to elect the president by the people, at least indirectly. At the time, we were a population of approximately 4 million people scattered along the Atlantic coast with extremely limited communications and transportation. Direct election wasn't practical. A factor they considered was that direct election of the president by the popular vote gave the people too much power. The original Electoral College began with Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.

In Afghanistan, the recent presidential election was determined by popular vote. The same will be true when elections are held in Iraq.

......... if this magical thing is so good for us, then why isn't anyone else doing it?

​

Ah, but you are forgetting why it was not done to give each state exactly equal say. The EC gives each state an EV for every Senator and Congressperson. Since every state has two Senators regardless of size and a number of congress people allotted per population this purposely give small states more weight in the EC. This was done to promote unity. If the EC was based entirely on population, the smaller states would be at the whim of the larger states. Even though 10 smaller states might be for one candidate, if Virginia (back then Virginia was the biggest and most populous state) wanted another candidate, Virginia would win. To give the smaller states a little extra say, it made everyone happy.

If you want a revolution, eliminate the EC, and after about 10 presidents in row are picked solely by California and New York, you might have one.

Actually an EC system in Iraq like the US one would make sense. One of the major contentions is that the Sunnis will be swallowed up by the other more populous factions, like the Shiites. Just use an EC and give the Sunnis a little extra votes, not enough to make it 100% equal, but a little more to make them feel better and not threaten the Shetites. This would promote unity in Iraq, and thus demonstrate the TRUE purpose of the EC.

To further brag of the genius of the EC, the UN, which most anti-American people seem to LOVE is also based on it, in a way. To get Russia to join when it was formed, Russia objected to one country one vote because Russia was so big it was afraid of being swallowed up by a bunch of little countries. In the general assembly, Russia gets more than on vote, I think it is 6 or 9 or something like that. Most other countries get one vote. Russia is lot bigger than nine times Haiti (which gets one vote). So even the in the UN the votes are weighted to the smaller countries almost EXACTLY like the USA EC weights its votes to the smaller states. I also believe the USA and China get more than one vote in the general assembly.
@);-

So you see, the EC is very good system. It is better than one vote per state or voting strictly on populations. It is truly a compromise that is designed to promote unity.

 

[Qflux]

People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Without the EC, a presidential candidate could campaign just in the 10 largest US cities with: Vote for me and illiminate your taxes and raise everyone elses by 50% - and they would win!