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Bush Admin Lax on Civil Rights Enforcement
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<blockquote data-quote="dancho" data-source="post: 14319" data-attributes="member: 245"><p><strong>Bush Admin Lax on Civil Rights Enforcement</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C.S. Lewis was a proponent of the Christian argument that "punishment" (like flogging) upheld human dignity since it maintained that the individual criminal should "pay a debt" for committing a crime. He preferred this approach to "humanitarianism" where the criminal is treated as a "sick" person and looses his or her "rights." Lewis argued that the only way for a person to be a criminal and to maintain their dignity was to be punished (aka "scourged") and thereby "pay what they owe" as a free person, with a free will. This, and other medieval notions are "near and dear" to the hearts of many people who are not really familiar with the "great debate" that got rid of public flogging and the other such devices.</p><p></p><p>I'm finally beginning to come to an understanding about what I have been reading-- coming from a variety of people all over the internet. It's saying that the "old ways" are best. It's a call for a return to a more medieval way of life. A desire to abandon the modern and return to a simpler time when things were rough but certain, and God ruled in His heaven.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure that I disagree with this. When I was in the military, they tried to avoid the "chew 'em out" school of old-time, brown shoe discipline. They used the "humanitarian approach" and I must say that it did not work very well. I would tend to agree with Lewis and with Darkwolf (if I understand you correctly) that there is a loss of dignity associated with being declared "malfunctioning" (as opposed to just plain bad) and I would tend to agree that a correctional system based upon payment for crime and forgiveness of debt upon such payment sounds pretty appealing.</p><p></p><p>So I think that we agree, in a way. (Everyone sing Cumbaya!)</p><p></p><p>It's just that Lewis and the Christian tradition absolutely insist that the rights of a criminal be respected, and the whole point of "paying one's debt" to society is to restore the criminal to full citizenship, because forgiveness is the foundation of Christianity and and someone who "pays for their crime" is forgiven.</p><p></p><p>You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have a medieval "punishment" AND loss of rights. "Loss of rights" is part of the modern, humanitarian system wherein criminals are treated like "sick people" and rehabilitation is the goal. "Punishment" is part of the old tradition where the dignity of the individual is upheld in order to facilitate the salvation of said individual.</p><p></p><p>An approach where people are stripped of their rights, dignity, physical safety and punished forever is just cruel and sadistic. Of course, if that's what's you're into, then keep in mind that if you "sow the wind you'll reap the whirlwind."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's a link:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://members.aol.com/plweiss1/crime.htm" target="_blank">http://members.aol.com/plweiss1/crime.htm</a></p><p></p><p>... and a quote from Hunter S. Thompson:</p><p></p><p>"This may be the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves; finally just lay back and say it -- that we are really just a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable."</p><p></p><p>Hunter S. Thompson</p><p>Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail</p><p>November 1972</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dancho, post: 14319, member: 245"] [b]Bush Admin Lax on Civil Rights Enforcement[/b] C.S. Lewis was a proponent of the Christian argument that "punishment" (like flogging) upheld human dignity since it maintained that the individual criminal should "pay a debt" for committing a crime. He preferred this approach to "humanitarianism" where the criminal is treated as a "sick" person and looses his or her "rights." Lewis argued that the only way for a person to be a criminal and to maintain their dignity was to be punished (aka "scourged") and thereby "pay what they owe" as a free person, with a free will. This, and other medieval notions are "near and dear" to the hearts of many people who are not really familiar with the "great debate" that got rid of public flogging and the other such devices. I'm finally beginning to come to an understanding about what I have been reading-- coming from a variety of people all over the internet. It's saying that the "old ways" are best. It's a call for a return to a more medieval way of life. A desire to abandon the modern and return to a simpler time when things were rough but certain, and God ruled in His heaven. I'm not sure that I disagree with this. When I was in the military, they tried to avoid the "chew 'em out" school of old-time, brown shoe discipline. They used the "humanitarian approach" and I must say that it did not work very well. I would tend to agree with Lewis and with Darkwolf (if I understand you correctly) that there is a loss of dignity associated with being declared "malfunctioning" (as opposed to just plain bad) and I would tend to agree that a correctional system based upon payment for crime and forgiveness of debt upon such payment sounds pretty appealing. So I think that we agree, in a way. (Everyone sing Cumbaya!) It's just that Lewis and the Christian tradition absolutely insist that the rights of a criminal be respected, and the whole point of "paying one's debt" to society is to restore the criminal to full citizenship, because forgiveness is the foundation of Christianity and and someone who "pays for their crime" is forgiven. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have a medieval "punishment" AND loss of rights. "Loss of rights" is part of the modern, humanitarian system wherein criminals are treated like "sick people" and rehabilitation is the goal. "Punishment" is part of the old tradition where the dignity of the individual is upheld in order to facilitate the salvation of said individual. An approach where people are stripped of their rights, dignity, physical safety and punished forever is just cruel and sadistic. Of course, if that's what's you're into, then keep in mind that if you "sow the wind you'll reap the whirlwind." Here's a link: [url=http://members.aol.com/plweiss1/crime.htm]http://members.aol.com/plweiss1/crime.htm[/url] ... and a quote from Hunter S. Thompson: "This may be the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves; finally just lay back and say it -- that we are really just a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." Hunter S. Thompson Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail November 1972 [/QUOTE]
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