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Did The Middle Ages Really Exist? - Arcana & Ancient Civilisations
Did The Middle Ages Really Exist? - posted in Arcana & Ancient Civilisations: In essence... The Phantom Time Hypothesis - An Outrageous Conspiracy Theory? The Phantom Time Hypothesis, as advanced by German researcher Heribert Illig, and expanded by Dr Hans-Ulrich Niemitz of the Hochschule fü r...
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Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?
* * * * * 1 votes
Started by Grayson, Aug 30 2014 10:01 PM
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6 replies to this topic
#1 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #1
Grayson
Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:01 PM
Grayson
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Attached File Niemitz-1997.pdf 85.07KB 2 downloads
In essence...
The Phantom Time Hypothesis - An Outrageous Conspiracy Theory?
The Phantom Time Hypothesis, as advanced by German researcher Heribert Illig, and expanded by Dr Hans-Ulrich Niemitz of the Hochschule fü r Technik, Wirtschaft und Kultur in Leipzig, claims the following:
The Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII caused his scribes to recopy Byzantine historical documents from the old writing style, called majuscule, into the new writing style, called minuscule. Once this was done, the old books were destroyed. These facts are not in dispute. The Phantom Time Hypothesis claims that this undertaking provided a tempting opportunity to rewrite history – a temptation that Constantine VII did not resist.
Holy Roman Emperor Otto III (related to Constantine VII through his, Otto's, mother, Theophanu), in connivance with Pope Sylvester II (né Gerbert d'Aurillac), decided to convince everybody they were living at the end of the First Millennium, because it was a wonderful opportunity for positive PR. Besides, Otto liked the idea of reigning in the Year 1000. It was such a nice, round number.
The fact that these leaders moved the calendar by 297 years made it possible to invent an entire dynasty – to wit, the Carolingian period. Otto III modelled his reign after that of his 'hero', Charles the Great. If the Phantom Time Hypothesis is true, Charlemagne is as fictional as Prester John6.
From the evidence, it is obvious that Constantine, Otto, and Sylvester had means, motive and opportunity to perpetrate what they may not have regarded as a crime. But is there any evidence that they did so? Although there is no 'smoking gun' in the form of, say, a confession – they would hardly have left a notarised statement lying about – there are some suspicious facts. One of these is the whole controversy between the Julian and Gregorian calendars.
Heribert Illig first noticed that when the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582, it was necessary to omit ten days to make up for the fact that the old Julian year was actually about ten minutes too long7. These ten days (and a few more omitted since 1582) account for the reason Russian Christmas is later than Western Christmas8. However, calculations based on the year that the Julian calendar was introduced (45 BCE) suggest that it should have been 13 days, not 10. The figure of 10 suggests that the Julian calendar had been in operation for about 340 years less than the 1,626 years you would expect to find between 45 BCE and 1582 CE. Perhaps there is something wrong with the count of these years?
On the other hand, if the calendar had been correct in 325 CE, then ten days would be the correct number to omit. As the detractors of the Phantom Time Hypothesis theory point out, this happens to be the date of the Nicene Council, which had so much trouble figuring out when Easter was. The detractors figure that settles that – they claim the Gregorian calendar makers were only trying to get the calendar to agree with the state of affairs back in the 4th Century, when they first set the Easter date (though not without a lot of arguing).
Not so, replied Professor Niemitz, who points out that there is a problem with the placement of the equinoxes as well as the date of Easter:
Some historians have noticed this contradiction, but they solve it this way: the scholars in Caesar's time reckoned a different date for the equinox (the day in spring, where day and night have the same length). Yet it can be proved that the Romans used the same date for the equinox as we do today, i.e. the 21st of March.
- from 'Did the Early Middle Ages Really Exist?' by Hans-Ulrich Niemitz.
That, of course, is not that. Those who oppose having their minds messed with by inquiring Germans have raised other objections to the Phantom Time Hypothesis. Phantom Time Hypothesisers have replied to them. Let the reader judge.
<p><span style="color:#b22222;"><span style="font-family:'comic sans ms';"><span style="font-size:24px;"><strong>Let the thyit thpatter were it may.</strong></span></span></span></p>
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#2 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #2
Noneoftheabove
Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:43 AM
Noneoftheabove
Conspiratus Maximus
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Well, the middle ages were between the new ages and the old ages so they must have existed.
We have the Chinese records which can be matched up to western records so this claim would seem to be dubious.
.45 ACP Because Shooting Twice is Just Silly!
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#3 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #3
dreamwalker
Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:56 AM
dreamwalker
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I thought we were in the Middle Ages ? Our foreheads have evolved and I don't yet worry about the Morlocks abducting my woman every night. Though I am willing to barter. Does that make me a Morlock sympathizer?
"I've got a silver spoon on a chain.. I've got a grand piano to prop up my mortal remains. I've got wide staring eyes. I've got a strong urge to fly!! But I've got nowhere to fly to."
-Pink Floyd
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#4 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #4
Harte
Posted 31 August 2014 - 05:20 PM
Harte
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The middle ages most certainly existed. Still do.
Being middle-aged myself, I'm living (barely) proof of this. In addition, my own forehead has evolved. It's grown much larger - extending beyond where the hairline once was. That there's more proof.
Harte
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. Bertrand Russell
Ubi dubium ibi libertas.
Gee, what a boring ass world it would be without the likes of us messed up whack job psycho arrogant motherfuckers who DONT BUY INTO EVERYTHING. Risata
Sometimes a shitty stick is just a stick covered in shit and not a Gubbermint plot to makes sticks useless to us. Grayson
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#5 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #5
StarLord
Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:23 PM
StarLord
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Grayson
Gender:Male
DOB: I knew Moses
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Country flag:
This is true.
Harte, being more middle aged than any of us, forehead evolved past the point of holding hair, caps, thus unable to suffer nitwits, nearwits and halfwits, has no need to harbor hair, hence beckons sunburns, kisses and aloe vera gel.
Awesomely Spotter Grayson!
Come to the Light side. There's No Medals For Stumbling Around In The Dark Is There...Forgive The Darkside, For They Know Not What They Do.
We are Spiritual Beings Having A Human Consciousness Experience.
Wait Long Enough, People Will Forget What They Are About And Show Their True Side To You.
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#6 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #6
aliced
Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:52 PM
aliced
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I had a middle aged once, known, I believe, as a cougar. I am sure she existed.
<p>Make yourself grass and horse will eat you, growl loud and smart enough and your target's admiration and appreciation grows.</p><br /><p> </p><br /><p>Fine minds like fine steels are forged by hard knocks.</p>
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#7 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #7
MajorUrsaNorte
Posted 18 September 2014 - 01:11 AM
MajorUrsaNorte
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Ive actually read up on this claim of "no middle ages". I don't buy it since other cultures have records other than the Chinese that provide a full timeline. What I do like to noodle on is the complete re-writing of European history during that time for political gain and future rights of claim among the "royals".
Since most of Europe fell into disrepair when Rome fell and pulled back to the med, it didn't take but a few generations to remove most of the literate population. What was left were mostly Catholic monks and scribes. Therin lies the rub. Who was left to check up on these gentle folk and all of their scribbles? If you had the coin, the Church would write you into history, if you didn't or objected, your ass was laid seige to and blotted out of the record.
How many nobel houses were simply erased from history due to their opposition to or lack of funding the Catholic Church?
Quite a nut to crack.
MuN
Be Prepared,
Keep your powder dry,
And always remember,
The smoker you drink, the player you get.
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Photo
Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?
* * * * * 1 votes
Started by Grayson, Aug 30 2014 10:01 PM
Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic
#1 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #1
Grayson
Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:01 PM
Grayson
Cylokat, attack!
Admin Staff
10,169 posts
871
The Wahoonie
Gender:Not Telling
Location:United Kingdom
DOB: I knew Moses
I am: A Happy Guy
Country flag:
Attached File Niemitz-1997.pdf 85.07KB 2 downloads
In essence...
The Phantom Time Hypothesis - An Outrageous Conspiracy Theory?
The Phantom Time Hypothesis, as advanced by German researcher Heribert Illig, and expanded by Dr Hans-Ulrich Niemitz of the Hochschule fü r Technik, Wirtschaft und Kultur in Leipzig, claims the following:
The Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII caused his scribes to recopy Byzantine historical documents from the old writing style, called majuscule, into the new writing style, called minuscule. Once this was done, the old books were destroyed. These facts are not in dispute. The Phantom Time Hypothesis claims that this undertaking provided a tempting opportunity to rewrite history – a temptation that Constantine VII did not resist.
Holy Roman Emperor Otto III (related to Constantine VII through his, Otto's, mother, Theophanu), in connivance with Pope Sylvester II (né Gerbert d'Aurillac), decided to convince everybody they were living at the end of the First Millennium, because it was a wonderful opportunity for positive PR. Besides, Otto liked the idea of reigning in the Year 1000. It was such a nice, round number.
The fact that these leaders moved the calendar by 297 years made it possible to invent an entire dynasty – to wit, the Carolingian period. Otto III modelled his reign after that of his 'hero', Charles the Great. If the Phantom Time Hypothesis is true, Charlemagne is as fictional as Prester John6.
From the evidence, it is obvious that Constantine, Otto, and Sylvester had means, motive and opportunity to perpetrate what they may not have regarded as a crime. But is there any evidence that they did so? Although there is no 'smoking gun' in the form of, say, a confession – they would hardly have left a notarised statement lying about – there are some suspicious facts. One of these is the whole controversy between the Julian and Gregorian calendars.
Heribert Illig first noticed that when the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582, it was necessary to omit ten days to make up for the fact that the old Julian year was actually about ten minutes too long7. These ten days (and a few more omitted since 1582) account for the reason Russian Christmas is later than Western Christmas8. However, calculations based on the year that the Julian calendar was introduced (45 BCE) suggest that it should have been 13 days, not 10. The figure of 10 suggests that the Julian calendar had been in operation for about 340 years less than the 1,626 years you would expect to find between 45 BCE and 1582 CE. Perhaps there is something wrong with the count of these years?
On the other hand, if the calendar had been correct in 325 CE, then ten days would be the correct number to omit. As the detractors of the Phantom Time Hypothesis theory point out, this happens to be the date of the Nicene Council, which had so much trouble figuring out when Easter was. The detractors figure that settles that – they claim the Gregorian calendar makers were only trying to get the calendar to agree with the state of affairs back in the 4th Century, when they first set the Easter date (though not without a lot of arguing).
Not so, replied Professor Niemitz, who points out that there is a problem with the placement of the equinoxes as well as the date of Easter:
Some historians have noticed this contradiction, but they solve it this way: the scholars in Caesar's time reckoned a different date for the equinox (the day in spring, where day and night have the same length). Yet it can be proved that the Romans used the same date for the equinox as we do today, i.e. the 21st of March.
- from 'Did the Early Middle Ages Really Exist?' by Hans-Ulrich Niemitz.
That, of course, is not that. Those who oppose having their minds messed with by inquiring Germans have raised other objections to the Phantom Time Hypothesis. Phantom Time Hypothesisers have replied to them. Let the reader judge.
<p><span style="color:#b22222;"><span style="font-family:'comic sans ms';"><span style="font-size:24px;"><strong>Let the thyit thpatter were it may.</strong></span></span></span></p>
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#2 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #2
Noneoftheabove
Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:43 AM
Noneoftheabove
Conspiratus Maximus
VIP Elite Member
1,672 posts
390
Totally Scrotnig
DOB: Shit, older than Cary
I am: At Peace with my soul
Country flag:
Well, the middle ages were between the new ages and the old ages so they must have existed.
We have the Chinese records which can be matched up to western records so this claim would seem to be dubious.
.45 ACP Because Shooting Twice is Just Silly!
Back to top
Report
#3 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #3
dreamwalker
Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:56 AM
dreamwalker
Darkness
VIP Elite Member
13,533 posts
1,328
The Wahoonie
Gender:Male
Location:Ozarks
Interests
etermining the best way to escape.DOB: Good side of 30
I am: Locked and Loaded
Country flag:
I thought we were in the Middle Ages ? Our foreheads have evolved and I don't yet worry about the Morlocks abducting my woman every night. Though I am willing to barter. Does that make me a Morlock sympathizer?
"I've got a silver spoon on a chain.. I've got a grand piano to prop up my mortal remains. I've got wide staring eyes. I've got a strong urge to fly!! But I've got nowhere to fly to."
-Pink Floyd
Back to top
Report
#4 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #4
Harte
Posted 31 August 2014 - 05:20 PM
Harte
Skeptic
VIP Elite Member
2,745 posts
429
The Sluzzgreeps pyjama's
Gender:Male
Location:Memphis TN
DOB: Shit, older than Cary
I am: Spartacus
Country flag:
The middle ages most certainly existed. Still do.
Being middle-aged myself, I'm living (barely) proof of this. In addition, my own forehead has evolved. It's grown much larger - extending beyond where the hairline once was. That there's more proof.
Harte
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. Bertrand Russell
Ubi dubium ibi libertas.
Gee, what a boring ass world it would be without the likes of us messed up whack job psycho arrogant motherfuckers who DONT BUY INTO EVERYTHING. Risata
Sometimes a shitty stick is just a stick covered in shit and not a Gubbermint plot to makes sticks useless to us. Grayson
Back to top
Report
#5 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #5
StarLord
Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:23 PM
StarLord
Conspiratus Illuminatus
VIP Elite Member
14,546 posts
101,369
Grayson
Gender:Male
DOB: I knew Moses
I am: At Peace with my soul
Country flag:
This is true.
Harte, being more middle aged than any of us, forehead evolved past the point of holding hair, caps, thus unable to suffer nitwits, nearwits and halfwits, has no need to harbor hair, hence beckons sunburns, kisses and aloe vera gel.
Awesomely Spotter Grayson!
Come to the Light side. There's No Medals For Stumbling Around In The Dark Is There...Forgive The Darkside, For They Know Not What They Do.
We are Spiritual Beings Having A Human Consciousness Experience.
Wait Long Enough, People Will Forget What They Are About And Show Their True Side To You.
Back to top
Report
#6 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #6
aliced
Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:52 PM
aliced
Fuckin Hardarse
VIP Elite Member
3,907 posts
690
The Sluzzgreeps pyjama's
Gender:Male
Location:New Zealand
DOB: Unrepeatable
I am: In my Car
Country flag:
I had a middle aged once, known, I believe, as a cougar. I am sure she existed.
<p>Make yourself grass and horse will eat you, growl loud and smart enough and your target's admiration and appreciation grows.</p><br /><p> </p><br /><p>Fine minds like fine steels are forged by hard knocks.</p>
Back to top
Report
#7 Did The Middle Ages Really Exist?: post #7
MajorUrsaNorte
Posted 18 September 2014 - 01:11 AM
MajorUrsaNorte
Chief Dog Wrangler and Camp Cook
VIP Elite Member
4,201 posts
117
Wholly Zarjaz
Gender:Male
Location:Mississippi Delta
Interests:Hunting, Fishing and anything else in the Great Outdoors
DOB: Good side of 40
I am: Locked and Loaded
Country flag:
Ive actually read up on this claim of "no middle ages". I don't buy it since other cultures have records other than the Chinese that provide a full timeline. What I do like to noodle on is the complete re-writing of European history during that time for political gain and future rights of claim among the "royals".
Since most of Europe fell into disrepair when Rome fell and pulled back to the med, it didn't take but a few generations to remove most of the literate population. What was left were mostly Catholic monks and scribes. Therin lies the rub. Who was left to check up on these gentle folk and all of their scribbles? If you had the coin, the Church would write you into history, if you didn't or objected, your ass was laid seige to and blotted out of the record.
How many nobel houses were simply erased from history due to their opposition to or lack of funding the Catholic Church?
Quite a nut to crack.
MuN
Be Prepared,
Keep your powder dry,
And always remember,
The smoker you drink, the player you get.
Back to top
Report
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