One step closer

[John]

One step closer

For those who missed the announcement yesterday. We implemented a system by which members can give each other reputation points. This was a first step in self moderation and smaller administrative staff influence that we are focusing on. If you missed it the thread is here:
http://www.timetravelforum.net/showthread.php?t=1712

We are introducing another change, procedural in nature. In the interest of the smaller is better ideology. We are moving the moderation responsibility, predominantly to the community users. There will still be admins and moderators around, but, a strong majority of the moderation is up to you, the individual community member. This technology has been present since we moved here and began using the VBulletin software. It is the ability of every community member to report a post that is breaking the rules.

To report a post, simply click on the red triangle with an exclamation mark in it under a person's picture by the post. Fill in the information specifically the rule that was broken. This will notify the administrative staff. The administrative staff with then go to the post and reference the rule. The rules can be found here:
http://www.timetravelforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=42
If the rule was in fact broken, the appropriate action will be taken based on the rules. No more or less. The person who reports the rule break will have total anonymity so there is not threat of a back lash, etc.

This mechanism yet a second mechanism for you the community to self-govern.

 

[Kindred]

Re: One step closer

i really did enjoy my brief time here. however i personally feel this will drive a wedge between the community of great people u have coming here. its almost like turning this into a game, see who can get the most reputation points, make the most posts, rat on the most people, and all done in secret so theres no real accountability to stop anyone from using common sense. this will no longer be a community, just a very sophisticated board lacking any real interest of the common man (or woman). that is my opinion and i believe in general the opinion of others. will you let them read this comment? will this thread be locked like the last? will i be banned for speaking my mind on the issue?

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

Re: One step closer

No one's thread is "locked away" unless it becomes destructive or is outright offensive. If you choose not to participate in these new aspects of the forum, that's perfectly fine and no one will think the less of you for it.

I said something similar to this in the reputation points thread, but I think it applies to this as well: The moderators and admin's job will be to ensure that these two mechanisms do not become abused. If someone just goes on a post reporting spree because they don't like a particular person, he/she will be dealt with accordingly. Similarly, if the staff finds people inflating each other's reputation points just so they can be "the best", or find someone constantly giving others negative points then that person will be dealt with.

What John is trying to do is create a forum where it's not dependant on so many moderators. Too many cheifs and not enough indians end up causing a lot of internal fighting. No one wants that. If you see something YOU deem as offensive, you can report it. It's up to you to determine what is or is not acceptable for YOU, not us.

Again, no one is going to go Gestapo on you just because you disagree with a staff member. You can say whatever you want to say, so long as it is done in a constructive manner. Thanks for your input

 

[Grayson]

Re: One step closer

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"TheHeggy\")</div>

What John is trying to do is create a forum where you don't have a bunch of moderators lording over your every move. If you see something YOU deem as offensive, you can report it. It's up to you to determine what is or is not acceptable for YOU, not us...

... You can say whatever you want to say, so long as it is done in a constructive manner. Thanks for your input [/b]

What? Where the previous Moderators grapes... a bunch of lording Mods? That's something to conjugate with... I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think that any Moderator or Administrator ever 'Lorded' it up here.

My constructive inut is this: You have ever been poor with your capacity to communicate a dynamic concept, favouring the faux-pas and desirery side-swipe over the informed conceptual promotion. Stick to fiddling with the hacks and tweeks Heggy, you only have two feet to shoot off.

Otherwise we could end up calling you Stumpy, not (sm)Heggy.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

Re: One step closer

LOL I saw my poor choice of words as soon as I'd hit submit and changed it before you finished posting that (See the "Last Edited" thing) Didn't mean to make it sound like that at all. My apologies.

 

[Grayson]

Re: One step closer

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"TheHeggy\")</div>

LOL I saw my poor choice of words as soon as I'd hit submit and changed it before you finished posting that (See the \"Last Edited\" thing) Didn't mean to make it sound like that at all. My apologies.[/b]

Apology accepted.

 

[JediStryker]

Re: One step closer

The idea here is simply to give our members the more freedom to moderate themselves. This allows you, as a group, to determine what you deem appropriate and what you would like to see done away with. Obviously, ultimately there are certain standards and policies that must be upheld, but our goal here is less administrative overhead.

This, by no means, is meant to be a sleight against those who have been here before. We have been here since the beginning, so I would be insulting myself. There have been those here who have always called for less "censorship from above". Well, now we're trying it. This your opportunity to take more control of this community, of this website, and to help shape it as you like.

This is not a popularity contest. We will still oversee the broader aspects of this process and ensure that it is not abused. But with more control and more input, we hope that you all will feel more comfortable and happier here.

 

[John]

Re: One step closer

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Kindred\")</div>

i really did enjoy my brief time here. however i personally feel this will drive a wedge between the community of great people u have coming here. its almost like turning this into a game, see who can get the most reputation points, make the most posts, rat on the most people, and all done in secret so theres no real accountability to stop anyone from using common sense. this will no longer be a community, just a very sophisticated board lacking any real interest of the common man (or woman). that is my opinion and i believe in general the opinion of others. will you let them read this comment? will this thread be locked like the last? will i be banned for speaking my mind on the issue?[/b]

The point of this and the reputation was to put the community back in charge of itself. I believe Heggy hashed this out. With more control over oneself, one has greater responsibilities and pressures. You now have to either know the rules and abide by them and enforce them or NOT. It is your community. You don't have to report one thread if you don't want to. You don't have to give someone a negative reputation if they are being a jerk. You don't have to do anything if you don't like. If you do, however, this is an empowering situation. If you thought that a mod or admin seemed to be light on a person, or had a favorite, you really had no course of action. Now there is no mod or admin to worry with. IF you do see that a mod or admin is playing favorites, you can report the thread AND give them negative reputation. THe community as a whole can determine the jerks from the oks, not the administrative staff. That is, in my opinion, not "lacking any real interest of the common man (or woman)" on the contrary it is adding and empowering these interests. It is focusing on individual rights and responsibilities. You have the power to determine your taste and within the guidelines of this community actively participate and enforce.

As for the anonymity issue. This is a protection for the person reporting the incident, aka thread. This allows them to report freely without fear of back lash from any person or persons. This is something that most probably want rather than having their name splattered all over the place saying that X reported Y who was Z,A,B,C and D's friend. If we could not give this to the person enforcing the rules, then certain people who want a cleaner more rule-abiding community would be labeled, "rats" or as you said be accused of "rat[ing] on the most people". Essentially it is your attitude on enforcing the rules that make anonymity of the people who want a non hostile rule abiding community, vital.


Next, on to your comments:
"will you let them read this comment? will this thread be locked like the last? will i be banned for speaking my mind on the issue?"

When, in all of your 5 posts, have any one of them been locked, moved, erased or edited? When in all of your 5 posts have you received a notification that you were on the verge of getting banned? When in all of your 5 posts has anyone told you not to speak your mind? You are not and have never been persecuted for your beliefs or thoughts there of. You are not a martyr. The attitude and way you are talking one would believe that you were Nelson Mandela's right hand man and I am the South African Government. You have overblown this situation. This is a message board, not a whipping post of stiffling your speach. I am not "the man", "big brother", "out to get you", "trying to hold you down", "oppressing you", etc., neither are any other people on the administrative staff. Kick back relax and enjoy this great community filled with the best people you will meet in person or on the web. This is minor.

 

[PyRo99]

Re: One step closer

One Step Closer

In all honesty when I read this(See above quote), I thought "What are we turning tyrannical?" What is the next step John? Seems like this has all been mapped out, and I will be voicing my opinion on each of the new additions.

Sosuemetoo and CaryP both have resigned their posistions, but we fail to acknowledge all that they have been through, as Grayson has. I resigned in my day, but I believe we all need to root out the source of the problem.

A smaller Administrative Staff? No, I Will not be here long if that occurs. For one, I do not trust a few of the staff members, and we all know why too. I still have wounds that have not been mended from previous battles. If I felt like petitioning the staff members that have made these wounds, it would only be detrimental to the community.

What shall we do? John, you have come back demanding the site be moved back into your name. Fair enough, I kept my mouth quiet. You then removed members from the Ban List. And this is where I blow the whistle.

Those that were banned, were banned for specific reasons. They were not banned on "bullsh1t". If you want to un-ban people, then I am requesting the unbanning of SnowFireWatches. Is she really that big of a threat? Hell, certain moderators exposed Mudpuppy for whom she was, as well as Gary Voss. There was no legal suit, hell there was no lawyer that Gary Voss allegedly hired! HECK, Gary Voss doesn't even work for the company he says he does. And yet, Snow was banned by the Admins, and Moderators. Where is the "fair and balanced". Who took the time to look at what was going on, and be at peace within the chaos? Where is the justice that is promised on this forum?

Did I strike a nerve? I know that TheHeggy and Jedistryker both have had a problem with Snow. But then again, I've had my fair share of problems with Jedi. Am I a problem too, that will be needed to be dealt with? Because I assure you, the moment you scale this site down to you, Jedi and Heggy, I will be disappearing. Please review the thread where I resigned, as a Moderator. You will see what occured to make me quit.

My suggestion? Get more moderators that are willing to act their posistion out. Sosuemetoo, CaryP, and Grayson were some of the best mods this board has seen. Some mods lack and do not devote time to this board. Do I take in the fact that there are "Real Lives"? Yes, and thats why these mods, as well as KiraSjon, are exemplary. They were able to balance all three portions of their lives, and still continue their modding duties.

Now, onto the additions to this new place we call "home". This rating system, is not what I had expected. Pointing out the "bad seeds"? What if you don't have the time nor energy to add some reputation points? What if you just don't care. I am still all for my Judical Branch, especially if we are limiting the powers on this site. The Rating system will not work, for these reasons:

• Members will see the ratings and if they do not like someone a bad "rep" will form. Essentially a compeition will form. And members will rate one another poorly. And then when a new member comes and sees the ratings, will they judge? Is this what we are striving to become, a judgemental community?
• Members may do things, and draw out the unesscesarry evils from within. One bad post, and the member, that intially started the beating, will band together with friends, and vote poorly.

There are many more, but this is just the beginning.

Self-Governning of the Community? Why the hell don't we just resort to Anarchy for Christ's sake? We still need the Moderators and Administrators. Some Administrators should not have the power that they do, but hell, thats life. Again, the community is formed by all ages. The power should not be allowed into the younger ones hands, because they get pissed, Bam Lower Rating, and report the post. And we always had the report post button, do not try and reinvent something that was once there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Jedistryker\")</div>

...we hope that you all will feel more comfortable and happier here.[/b]

How would you feel if you saw everything around you crumbling? The foundation is even cracking. Personally, I don't feel safer and I won't feel safer until the members are safeguarded. There isn't a buffer inbetween the members and you three, and the moderators. I am still pushing for an "Over-Seers" to be created.

One more thing, when will the veil of secrecy(between the members and the Staff) be lifted? Or was this just some sort of propaganda?

Pyro