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<blockquote data-quote="Phoenix" data-source="post: 5671" data-attributes="member: 10"><p><strong>Religion</strong></p><p></p><p>Ah Grayson... </p><p></p><p>First: A proof of God (though not a proof of the Bible)</p><p></p><p>We really can not be sure of anything in life, not even death or taxes. Death may be only an illusion that we wake up from this life. Taxes are a man made invention that is dependent on the man made concept of money. We can not even be sure of that which we see and touch. The idea of a material world that lays outside of our senses and that does not have any thoughts of it's own and is entirely passive is the most irrational idea of mankind. The idea of such materialism is filled with contradictions and leaves one knowing nothing and trusting no logic. What can be known with certainty is our own subjective experience. Since our own spirit is the rational and logical basis of certainty, we must use it as a model of explaining the world we find ourselves in and understanding the nature of the universe. </p><p></p><p>Where did we come from? Yes biologically we have parents and it is true enough that our bodies came from them. This is not what matters though. The subjective experience matters far more, especially if hopefully that experience continues despite having a body. Where did this subjective experience come from. It may be postulated and theorized that various chemicals, hormones, neurons and dendrites are responsible for what we experience. That speculation starts to break down when that subjective experience starts to experience things that biologically don't pass through the five senses. The earnest nature of belief in "body only" becomes apparent when such everyday "extra sensory" experiences are actively suppressed by those who seek to impose their belief structures on people. The idea that the mind begins and ends in the brain is only a belief system though. It is a belief system that is threatened by facts and evidence of reality. From these out of body experiences we can establish that spirit is something other than body. Body is only something that the spirit uses like clothes. So we must ask, from where does spirit come. Fundamentally how did life begin?</p><p></p><p>If we follow the logic of biology we came from a mother, and she from a mother, and so on backwards. We are left with a logical conclusion there must be a great mother of all life, well that at least it is life from which life comes from. </p><p></p><p>This is not the same thing as a great architect, nor a perfect being. There are various suggestions that it is a great architect and it is a perfect being. The beauty and refreshing potency of nature and certain aspects of humanity can give one faith of such a great architect. Such a nature of goodness and beauty is knowable to the human mind. The human mind desires more of it in it's life, it gives meaning to human life. This truth, beauty, and goodness are but touches of God in life. So is the inner will to preserve, refine, and improve it. This God no religion has a monopoly of but all religions seek to worship. </p><p></p><p>Responding to The Epicurean Postulate and The Rock Lifting Paradox:</p><p></p><p>If this God exists how can events like Hiroshima and the Holocaust be allowed to happen? God's relation to us is like a father to a son. He wants us to do well and succeed but knows that in order for us to really learn, we must come to things on our own terms. Because of his perfection he is not allowed to help us until we want his help and are ready to receive his help. It is possible to perceive of such perfection and resolved principle as not truly benevolent or not truly omnipotent. It is also possible to perceive a rainbow in a waterfall as a waste of resources.</p><p>The physical laws that govern the universe also apply to God. In the same manner that King Arthur could not go against his own laws to defend the honor of his wife. If you think this makes God weak or not truly all powerful. You are correct in a sense, but keeping ones word and following principles is a great show of spiritual strength. </p><p></p><p>Logic of Atheism:</p><p></p><p>It is true a person acting on logic can not hold as unquestioningly true a thing which has not factual support. It is also true that a person acting on reason can not hold as unquestioningly false a thing which has no factual refutation. Atheism tries to claim itself as the espouser of reason, logic, and science. Science is an endeavor not a salvation. Logic is as weak as the assumptions that it is based on. Reason is hopelessly flawed by the limitations of collection and prone to error of data collection. It is possible to prove a negative. I can prove I was not in France if I prove I was in America. I can prove that an apple in my bag does not exist if I open up my bag to show it is empty. It is not always easy to prove the existence of a thing. I don't think I could prove the HDR that Opmmur lent me but that I no longer have. I don't think I can prove that I ate a pear yesterday. </p><p></p><p>Technology and spirit:</p><p></p><p>The age of multimedia and recording equipment in the hands of the general population has not stopped the ghost hunters of the word. Photographs of orbs and ectoplasm have been recorded on an on going basis around the world where digital cameras and camcorders can record the haunts. </p><p><a href="http://www.ghostweb.com/free.html" target="_blank">http://www.ghostweb.com/free.html</a></p><p>Electronic voice phenomena have had many recordings of voices from the beyond. Measurements of temperatures dropping by twenty degrees have been recorded. Electromagnetic disturbances are signs of psychokinetic activity. </p><p></p><p>Conclusion:</p><p></p><p>Atheist is nothing more than the extreme form of Protestantism. It is just a reaction to the nonsense and bigotry that is involved in the belief structure of "going to church". The thing is, there is something there in terms of more than the flesh, and mankind is scared to deal with it rationally. Thus they hide behind dogma or "science" and seek an explanation for it all. We are but children in this great world. The simple messages of love and trust are as powerful as they claim to be, and much more simple than we try to make them out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phoenix, post: 5671, member: 10"] [b]Religion[/b] Ah Grayson... First: A proof of God (though not a proof of the Bible) We really can not be sure of anything in life, not even death or taxes. Death may be only an illusion that we wake up from this life. Taxes are a man made invention that is dependent on the man made concept of money. We can not even be sure of that which we see and touch. The idea of a material world that lays outside of our senses and that does not have any thoughts of it's own and is entirely passive is the most irrational idea of mankind. The idea of such materialism is filled with contradictions and leaves one knowing nothing and trusting no logic. What can be known with certainty is our own subjective experience. Since our own spirit is the rational and logical basis of certainty, we must use it as a model of explaining the world we find ourselves in and understanding the nature of the universe. Where did we come from? Yes biologically we have parents and it is true enough that our bodies came from them. This is not what matters though. The subjective experience matters far more, especially if hopefully that experience continues despite having a body. Where did this subjective experience come from. It may be postulated and theorized that various chemicals, hormones, neurons and dendrites are responsible for what we experience. That speculation starts to break down when that subjective experience starts to experience things that biologically don't pass through the five senses. The earnest nature of belief in "body only" becomes apparent when such everyday "extra sensory" experiences are actively suppressed by those who seek to impose their belief structures on people. The idea that the mind begins and ends in the brain is only a belief system though. It is a belief system that is threatened by facts and evidence of reality. From these out of body experiences we can establish that spirit is something other than body. Body is only something that the spirit uses like clothes. So we must ask, from where does spirit come. Fundamentally how did life begin? If we follow the logic of biology we came from a mother, and she from a mother, and so on backwards. We are left with a logical conclusion there must be a great mother of all life, well that at least it is life from which life comes from. This is not the same thing as a great architect, nor a perfect being. There are various suggestions that it is a great architect and it is a perfect being. The beauty and refreshing potency of nature and certain aspects of humanity can give one faith of such a great architect. Such a nature of goodness and beauty is knowable to the human mind. The human mind desires more of it in it's life, it gives meaning to human life. This truth, beauty, and goodness are but touches of God in life. So is the inner will to preserve, refine, and improve it. This God no religion has a monopoly of but all religions seek to worship. Responding to The Epicurean Postulate and The Rock Lifting Paradox: If this God exists how can events like Hiroshima and the Holocaust be allowed to happen? God's relation to us is like a father to a son. He wants us to do well and succeed but knows that in order for us to really learn, we must come to things on our own terms. Because of his perfection he is not allowed to help us until we want his help and are ready to receive his help. It is possible to perceive of such perfection and resolved principle as not truly benevolent or not truly omnipotent. It is also possible to perceive a rainbow in a waterfall as a waste of resources. The physical laws that govern the universe also apply to God. In the same manner that King Arthur could not go against his own laws to defend the honor of his wife. If you think this makes God weak or not truly all powerful. You are correct in a sense, but keeping ones word and following principles is a great show of spiritual strength. Logic of Atheism: It is true a person acting on logic can not hold as unquestioningly true a thing which has not factual support. It is also true that a person acting on reason can not hold as unquestioningly false a thing which has no factual refutation. Atheism tries to claim itself as the espouser of reason, logic, and science. Science is an endeavor not a salvation. Logic is as weak as the assumptions that it is based on. Reason is hopelessly flawed by the limitations of collection and prone to error of data collection. It is possible to prove a negative. I can prove I was not in France if I prove I was in America. I can prove that an apple in my bag does not exist if I open up my bag to show it is empty. It is not always easy to prove the existence of a thing. I don't think I could prove the HDR that Opmmur lent me but that I no longer have. I don't think I can prove that I ate a pear yesterday. Technology and spirit: The age of multimedia and recording equipment in the hands of the general population has not stopped the ghost hunters of the word. Photographs of orbs and ectoplasm have been recorded on an on going basis around the world where digital cameras and camcorders can record the haunts. [url=http://www.ghostweb.com/free.html]http://www.ghostweb.com/free.html[/url] Electronic voice phenomena have had many recordings of voices from the beyond. Measurements of temperatures dropping by twenty degrees have been recorded. Electromagnetic disturbances are signs of psychokinetic activity. Conclusion: Atheist is nothing more than the extreme form of Protestantism. It is just a reaction to the nonsense and bigotry that is involved in the belief structure of "going to church". The thing is, there is something there in terms of more than the flesh, and mankind is scared to deal with it rationally. Thus they hide behind dogma or "science" and seek an explanation for it all. We are but children in this great world. The simple messages of love and trust are as powerful as they claim to be, and much more simple than we try to make them out. [/QUOTE]
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