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dancho post Nov 23 2004, 01:46 AM
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This is from godlessAmerican.org -- I wouldn't paste all
this but this is really a critical thing.
"THE CONSTITUTION RESTORATION ACT OF 2004
So, it's come to this. For 228 years, we have built and enjoyed a
country whose laws are determined by the consent of the governed after
throwing off the yoke of the 'divine right of kings' and
declaring freedom of religion. Now, we have a bill in the U.S. Senate
(S.2082) and an identical one in the House (H.R.3799) that proclaims
that no federal court action can proceed against a
government (federal, state or local) or official of government
"…by reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgment of God
as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government."
This must necessarily be interpreted as saying if a government or
official of government does something they claim to be "God's law",
the Supreme Court and federal courts have no
jurisdiction. Far, far from separating church and state, this means
that legislators and government officials can base their votes and
decisions on tenets of their personal religious beliefs
without fear of judicial interference. This opens the door to majority
rule religion without the 'check and balance' of a Constitutional
challenge under the principles of religious freedom.
Ultimately, Congress could disenfranchise atheists, gays, even
followers of other religions, based on the "god's law" of the god of
the current majority. The bills also provide that if any
Supreme Court or federal judge does claim jurisdiction over these
matters, that judge can be removed from the bench.
These acts also would provide another toe hold for Christian theocrats
in their campaign to define the United States as a Christian nation in
direct contradiction of the 'no litmus test' clause
and the First Amendment of the Constitution and of the Treaty of
Tripoli.
There's another provision that is seemingly obvious but must be there
for a purpose. Each act "Prohibits a court of the United States from
relying upon any law, policy, or other action of a
foreign state or international organization in interpreting and
applying the Constitution, other than the constitutional law and
English common law." This may be preparing the way for
restricting federal judges from referring to or relying on any
international law or ruling by the United Nations, for example. It is
a bad idea for Congress to attempt to restrict the courts with
respect to how they interpret the Constitution. An independent
judiciary is a key element of our government and these bills are
designed to encroach on that independence."
To begin additional research on what's behind these bills you may
start here:
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CaryP post Nov 23 2004, 05:05 AM
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Keep smiling, it get's a lot worse from here.
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Dancho,
Thanks for the post, and welcome to the plantation. Good find on the article. I've been hearing about this, with some amount of consternation. Happy Thanksgiving.
Cary
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Darkwolf post Nov 23 2004, 05:48 AM
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Ok, I've had way too much time to think and get torqued off about it so heres what I think is happening. It is well known that Bush is connected with the NWO types so anything he does that appears to conflict with their agenda can be assumed to be BS. So, the neoconabon party sets up a repressive theocracy, and lets us suffer under it for awhile and get ticked off and desperate. Then when we've had enough and it looks like the 700 club mullahs aren't going to let us go, the UN comes riding in on a white horse (no biblical allusion intended) to save the day. We welcome them with open arms, not to mention giving up our arms, and the international elite live happily ever after. These people must think we're stupid.
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Cornelia post Nov 23 2004, 06:16 AM
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Darkwolf,
LOL!!
We in Europe are really amazed for the fear many americans have of the UN... because it's so clear the UN means nothing.
No power, no force, no troops, nothing, just some talks and now they're silenced too. What's the remaining purpose of the UN? They should turn that Glass Palace into a children daycare.
Being afraid of the UN is wasting your time ad your efforts, which should be addressed into that "big conspiracy" which don't involve at all a meaningless associations of powerless people as the UN.
And if you don't believe me, try this experiment: imagine Dick Cheney or Vladimir Putin taking orders from Kofi Annan! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Grayson post Nov 23 2004, 06:33 AM
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I agree with Cornelia here, the UN is a toothless hag hanging around on the fringes of the party. No-one EVER takes here seriously... or home after the drinking is done.
International Law is seperate from the UN, though the UN manages the body of the Law. Each UN Member State subscribes to International Law by Treaty, Treaty 'twixt themselves under the umbrella of the UN. No-one is bound to the UN and then by association, International Law. Some elements of International Law doesn't even exist within the UN Member States, they are by seperate agreement. We have the same thing in the UK with European Law, some elements of the larger body of Law we subscribe to and some we don't, we see it as more of a Legal buffet. Though we do not practice a policy of ignoring International Law.
Is the US preparing to pursue a Global Policy that may result in charges of War-Crimes?
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Darkwolf post Nov 23 2004, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE
Being afraid of the UN is wasting your time ad your efforts, which should be addressed into that "big conspiracy" which don't involve at all a meaningless associations of powerless people as the UN.
Cornilia, Perhaps I'm mistaken to be suspicious of the UN itself. Its just that I know that theres a kind of new world order thing brewing out there, and the UN at this point looks like its a big part of it. I could better call what we're dealing with the international GloboCorproSocialist party. The UN is only one of their tools, and I'm not so sure its as weak as you say it is, or at least will be say four years from now.
The UN is trying to set up a world government, but right now at least in America it will need to be seen as a kind of savior figure. A repressive theocratic regime would be just the thing to get an anti religious elitist, world wide regime set up here. Frankly given the choice, I'll take the neocons. Unfortunatly I think they are working together. If Bill Clinton ends up as the secgen, and the Hilldabeast looks like she might actually get the nomination, I'll be a little more suspicious.
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dancho post Nov 23 2004, 03:11 PM
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I find the label "Dominionists" to be particularly creepy. It sounds like bad Hollywood screenwriting, but if we're going to have a Civil War, we are going to need labels like that, aren't we? Those types of labels are always needed when two sides square off-- we can't just say "good guys" and "bad guys" since each side thinks the other is "bad."
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Timmy G post Nov 24 2004, 08:20 AM
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It seems that not only are 1/2 the people in America upset the Bush won the election, but so is the rest of the world. When you apply the information found in this article, then one would have to reason that our economy may start suffering even more.
On one of these posts, I believe I read about how a Civil War could start with Economic troubles. Is this a sign that they are headed this way :blink: ?
Analysis: Bush win boosts anti-U.S. passions
Washington, DC, Nov. 23 (UPI) -- Are European consumers going to punish American big business for the Bush administration's policies in Iraq and elsewhere? A massive new poll just released suggests that they will.
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PyRo99 post Nov 24 2004, 09:45 AM
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Well, the only people that actually like Bush, and his foreign/domestic policy, is people that are blind, or just damned.
Would I say that we are on a path to Civil War? Yes, and I can tell you this much, that the next blatant attack against our civil liberties will probably be the final straw. If you let them keep going, they don't know when to stop.
Plus, if you factor in all the people that are upset about him trying to Ban Gay Marriage, because of something in the bible or what not. He is not seperating Church and State, thus he is fooling around with a principle this country was founded on. Too bad nobody can realize that.
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Timmy G post Nov 24 2004, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE
He is not seperating Church and State, thus he is fooling around with a principle this country was founded on. Too bad nobody can realize that.
Pyro - I don't think it is a problem of people not realizing it... I whole-heartedly believe that the people simply don't know how to stop it?
Any ideas? *note - not sarcasm or humor - I'm being completely serious.
IMHO - if I thought there were a way to place reality back into check, I'd have to give it a try. I don't know if I'm speaking for many here - but I think that if most Americans who are aware of whats taking place in front of their very faces had the opportunity to either stop it or steer it away, they would.
Therein lies the problem... not even a thousand people, standing on a railroad track in front of a runaway train, could possibly even stop it.
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Grayson post Nov 24 2004, 06:35 PM
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Entropy has eaten into the system and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Sad really.
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Timmy G post Nov 24 2004, 11:19 PM
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QUOTE
Entropy has eaten into the system and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Sad really.
Entropy - Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
....ummm, that leaves basically one set of choices then, doesn't it? (a take it or leave it type of scenario).
Geez, that trip to Australia is looking better all the time.
This post has been edited by Timmy G: Nov 24 2004, 11:21 PM
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Cornelia post Nov 25 2004, 01:46 AM
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darkwolf,
yes, I believe in the New World Order conspiracy too
! But, unlike many americans strangely believe, the NWO won't be ruled by UN. The world-one-government will be ruled by banks, oil companies and some huge corporations. They want enslave us all, not the UN. Here in EU many see the UN as an enemy of the NWO, not because of its men (which are mostly corrupted like the others), but because of its law and its institutions.
You can clearly see this following the way the UN is kept out from the main disputes: in Iraq, UN was there just for few days, then they made a terror attack to the UN headquarters and killed many, among others one of the UN chiefs. The UN fled from Iraq leaving NWO forces doing what they wanted with no control. In the UN, every country has a vote: as you can see, *they* can't allow this.
Timmy,
what I hear everyday, sadly, is this: before Bush re-election people here kept saying "Bush is evil but american people are good", now they say "american people are evil too: they're not innocent, they re-elected Bush so they LIKE him".
But I'm sure nobody hates you here in the EU. We love our brothers the americans. It's just we are... a bit angry?
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Timmy G post Nov 25 2004, 09:07 AM
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QUOTE
Timmy,
what I hear everyday, sadly, is this: before Bush re-election people here kept saying "Bush is evil but american people are good", now they say "american people are evil too: they're not innocent, they re-elected Bush so they LIKE him".
But I'm sure nobody hates you here in the EU. We love our brothers the americans. It's just we are... a bit angry? wink.gif
Cornelia,
I enjoy reading your posts, and I'm sure what Im going to say goes without saying; however I find myself sitting here typing it anyway :blink:
For starters, I doubt that you could fill a stadium with all the people who voted for Bush that know what his regime is actually doing. I have spoken to many people here in Illinois and Missouri, and their attitude is too simple: They voted for George dub'ya becuase he prays to God. They believe that God will provide, and since he prays he will undoubtedly be given devine intervention (and I believe this sentiment is what exactly will allow the mixing of Church and State). I pretty much told them all that they need to do a bit of research and see exactly what kind of Devine Intervention God has given George in the past. God gives men choice, that simple.
Secondly, only half of our country voted for him - so far, only one out of every two of us is evil
And if your statement - "It's just we are... a bit angry?" was a question to me, then I'd have to say NO. If so, its a very small percentage. I'd say when looking at everything that has and is happening to our freedoms, it makes me more.. umm, disgusted and sad.
This post has been edited by Timmy G: Nov 25 2004, 09:08 AM
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Polymath_Misanthrope post Nov 25 2004, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE(Timmy G @ Nov 24 2004, 05:51 PM)
Pyro - I don't think it is a problem of people not realizing it... I whole-heartedly believe that the people simply don't know how to stop it?
Any ideas? *note - not sarcasm or humor - I'm being completely serious.
IMHO - if I thought there were a way to place reality back into check, I'd have to give it a try. I don't know if I'm speaking for many here - but I think that if most Americans who are aware of whats taking place in front of their very faces had the opportunity to either stop it or steer it away, they would.
Therein lies the problem... not even a thousand people, standing on a railroad track in front of a runaway train, could possibly even stop it.
*
Unfortunately, the people don't know how to stop it because:
1) They're absolute morons
2) They have too much power
However, bringing back to the stoping a runaway train, you wouldn't need many people to stop it if you brought something with you, like a sturdy, 3 yard thick titanium wall...
So unfortunately, (or fortunately in some cases...) revolution, or something along those lines, has to occur to stop what's happening if it gets far out of hand...
This post has been edited by Polymath_Misanthrope: Nov 25 2004, 01:50 PM
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> Are We On the Path to Civil War?, A Constitutional Crisis
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dancho post Nov 23 2004, 01:46 AM
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This is from godlessAmerican.org -- I wouldn't paste all
this but this is really a critical thing.
"THE CONSTITUTION RESTORATION ACT OF 2004
So, it's come to this. For 228 years, we have built and enjoyed a
country whose laws are determined by the consent of the governed after
throwing off the yoke of the 'divine right of kings' and
declaring freedom of religion. Now, we have a bill in the U.S. Senate
(S.2082) and an identical one in the House (H.R.3799) that proclaims
that no federal court action can proceed against a
government (federal, state or local) or official of government
"…by reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgment of God
as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government."
This must necessarily be interpreted as saying if a government or
official of government does something they claim to be "God's law",
the Supreme Court and federal courts have no
jurisdiction. Far, far from separating church and state, this means
that legislators and government officials can base their votes and
decisions on tenets of their personal religious beliefs
without fear of judicial interference. This opens the door to majority
rule religion without the 'check and balance' of a Constitutional
challenge under the principles of religious freedom.
Ultimately, Congress could disenfranchise atheists, gays, even
followers of other religions, based on the "god's law" of the god of
the current majority. The bills also provide that if any
Supreme Court or federal judge does claim jurisdiction over these
matters, that judge can be removed from the bench.
These acts also would provide another toe hold for Christian theocrats
in their campaign to define the United States as a Christian nation in
direct contradiction of the 'no litmus test' clause
and the First Amendment of the Constitution and of the Treaty of
Tripoli.
There's another provision that is seemingly obvious but must be there
for a purpose. Each act "Prohibits a court of the United States from
relying upon any law, policy, or other action of a
foreign state or international organization in interpreting and
applying the Constitution, other than the constitutional law and
English common law." This may be preparing the way for
restricting federal judges from referring to or relying on any
international law or ruling by the United Nations, for example. It is
a bad idea for Congress to attempt to restrict the courts with
respect to how they interpret the Constitution. An independent
judiciary is a key element of our government and these bills are
designed to encroach on that independence."
To begin additional research on what's behind these bills you may
start here:
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CaryP post Nov 23 2004, 05:05 AM
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Keep smiling, it get's a lot worse from here.
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Dancho,
Thanks for the post, and welcome to the plantation. Good find on the article. I've been hearing about this, with some amount of consternation. Happy Thanksgiving.
Cary
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Darkwolf post Nov 23 2004, 05:48 AM
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Ok, I've had way too much time to think and get torqued off about it so heres what I think is happening. It is well known that Bush is connected with the NWO types so anything he does that appears to conflict with their agenda can be assumed to be BS. So, the neoconabon party sets up a repressive theocracy, and lets us suffer under it for awhile and get ticked off and desperate. Then when we've had enough and it looks like the 700 club mullahs aren't going to let us go, the UN comes riding in on a white horse (no biblical allusion intended) to save the day. We welcome them with open arms, not to mention giving up our arms, and the international elite live happily ever after. These people must think we're stupid.
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Cornelia post Nov 23 2004, 06:16 AM
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Darkwolf,
LOL!!
We in Europe are really amazed for the fear many americans have of the UN... because it's so clear the UN means nothing.
No power, no force, no troops, nothing, just some talks and now they're silenced too. What's the remaining purpose of the UN? They should turn that Glass Palace into a children daycare.
Being afraid of the UN is wasting your time ad your efforts, which should be addressed into that "big conspiracy" which don't involve at all a meaningless associations of powerless people as the UN.
And if you don't believe me, try this experiment: imagine Dick Cheney or Vladimir Putin taking orders from Kofi Annan! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Grayson post Nov 23 2004, 06:33 AM
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I agree with Cornelia here, the UN is a toothless hag hanging around on the fringes of the party. No-one EVER takes here seriously... or home after the drinking is done.
International Law is seperate from the UN, though the UN manages the body of the Law. Each UN Member State subscribes to International Law by Treaty, Treaty 'twixt themselves under the umbrella of the UN. No-one is bound to the UN and then by association, International Law. Some elements of International Law doesn't even exist within the UN Member States, they are by seperate agreement. We have the same thing in the UK with European Law, some elements of the larger body of Law we subscribe to and some we don't, we see it as more of a Legal buffet. Though we do not practice a policy of ignoring International Law.
Is the US preparing to pursue a Global Policy that may result in charges of War-Crimes?
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Darkwolf post Nov 23 2004, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE
Being afraid of the UN is wasting your time ad your efforts, which should be addressed into that "big conspiracy" which don't involve at all a meaningless associations of powerless people as the UN.
Cornilia, Perhaps I'm mistaken to be suspicious of the UN itself. Its just that I know that theres a kind of new world order thing brewing out there, and the UN at this point looks like its a big part of it. I could better call what we're dealing with the international GloboCorproSocialist party. The UN is only one of their tools, and I'm not so sure its as weak as you say it is, or at least will be say four years from now.
The UN is trying to set up a world government, but right now at least in America it will need to be seen as a kind of savior figure. A repressive theocratic regime would be just the thing to get an anti religious elitist, world wide regime set up here. Frankly given the choice, I'll take the neocons. Unfortunatly I think they are working together. If Bill Clinton ends up as the secgen, and the Hilldabeast looks like she might actually get the nomination, I'll be a little more suspicious.
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dancho post Nov 23 2004, 03:11 PM
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I find the label "Dominionists" to be particularly creepy. It sounds like bad Hollywood screenwriting, but if we're going to have a Civil War, we are going to need labels like that, aren't we? Those types of labels are always needed when two sides square off-- we can't just say "good guys" and "bad guys" since each side thinks the other is "bad."
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Timmy G post Nov 24 2004, 08:20 AM
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It seems that not only are 1/2 the people in America upset the Bush won the election, but so is the rest of the world. When you apply the information found in this article, then one would have to reason that our economy may start suffering even more.
On one of these posts, I believe I read about how a Civil War could start with Economic troubles. Is this a sign that they are headed this way :blink: ?
Analysis: Bush win boosts anti-U.S. passions
Washington, DC, Nov. 23 (UPI) -- Are European consumers going to punish American big business for the Bush administration's policies in Iraq and elsewhere? A massive new poll just released suggests that they will.
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PyRo99 post Nov 24 2004, 09:45 AM
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Well, the only people that actually like Bush, and his foreign/domestic policy, is people that are blind, or just damned.
Would I say that we are on a path to Civil War? Yes, and I can tell you this much, that the next blatant attack against our civil liberties will probably be the final straw. If you let them keep going, they don't know when to stop.
Plus, if you factor in all the people that are upset about him trying to Ban Gay Marriage, because of something in the bible or what not. He is not seperating Church and State, thus he is fooling around with a principle this country was founded on. Too bad nobody can realize that.
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Timmy G post Nov 24 2004, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE
He is not seperating Church and State, thus he is fooling around with a principle this country was founded on. Too bad nobody can realize that.
Pyro - I don't think it is a problem of people not realizing it... I whole-heartedly believe that the people simply don't know how to stop it?
Any ideas? *note - not sarcasm or humor - I'm being completely serious.
IMHO - if I thought there were a way to place reality back into check, I'd have to give it a try. I don't know if I'm speaking for many here - but I think that if most Americans who are aware of whats taking place in front of their very faces had the opportunity to either stop it or steer it away, they would.
Therein lies the problem... not even a thousand people, standing on a railroad track in front of a runaway train, could possibly even stop it.
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Grayson post Nov 24 2004, 06:35 PM
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Entropy has eaten into the system and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Sad really.
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Timmy G post Nov 24 2004, 11:19 PM
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QUOTE
Entropy has eaten into the system and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Sad really.
Entropy - Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
....ummm, that leaves basically one set of choices then, doesn't it? (a take it or leave it type of scenario).
Geez, that trip to Australia is looking better all the time.
This post has been edited by Timmy G: Nov 24 2004, 11:21 PM
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Cornelia post Nov 25 2004, 01:46 AM
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darkwolf,
yes, I believe in the New World Order conspiracy too
! But, unlike many americans strangely believe, the NWO won't be ruled by UN. The world-one-government will be ruled by banks, oil companies and some huge corporations. They want enslave us all, not the UN. Here in EU many see the UN as an enemy of the NWO, not because of its men (which are mostly corrupted like the others), but because of its law and its institutions.You can clearly see this following the way the UN is kept out from the main disputes: in Iraq, UN was there just for few days, then they made a terror attack to the UN headquarters and killed many, among others one of the UN chiefs. The UN fled from Iraq leaving NWO forces doing what they wanted with no control. In the UN, every country has a vote: as you can see, *they* can't allow this.
Timmy,
what I hear everyday, sadly, is this: before Bush re-election people here kept saying "Bush is evil but american people are good", now they say "american people are evil too: they're not innocent, they re-elected Bush so they LIKE him".
But I'm sure nobody hates you here in the EU. We love our brothers the americans. It's just we are... a bit angry?
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Timmy G post Nov 25 2004, 09:07 AM
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QUOTE
Timmy,
what I hear everyday, sadly, is this: before Bush re-election people here kept saying "Bush is evil but american people are good", now they say "american people are evil too: they're not innocent, they re-elected Bush so they LIKE him".
But I'm sure nobody hates you here in the EU. We love our brothers the americans. It's just we are... a bit angry? wink.gif
Cornelia,
I enjoy reading your posts, and I'm sure what Im going to say goes without saying; however I find myself sitting here typing it anyway :blink:
For starters, I doubt that you could fill a stadium with all the people who voted for Bush that know what his regime is actually doing. I have spoken to many people here in Illinois and Missouri, and their attitude is too simple: They voted for George dub'ya becuase he prays to God. They believe that God will provide, and since he prays he will undoubtedly be given devine intervention (and I believe this sentiment is what exactly will allow the mixing of Church and State). I pretty much told them all that they need to do a bit of research and see exactly what kind of Devine Intervention God has given George in the past. God gives men choice, that simple.
Secondly, only half of our country voted for him - so far, only one out of every two of us is evil
And if your statement - "It's just we are... a bit angry?" was a question to me, then I'd have to say NO. If so, its a very small percentage. I'd say when looking at everything that has and is happening to our freedoms, it makes me more.. umm, disgusted and sad.
This post has been edited by Timmy G: Nov 25 2004, 09:08 AM
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Polymath_Misanthrope post Nov 25 2004, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE(Timmy G @ Nov 24 2004, 05:51 PM)
Pyro - I don't think it is a problem of people not realizing it... I whole-heartedly believe that the people simply don't know how to stop it?
Any ideas? *note - not sarcasm or humor - I'm being completely serious.
IMHO - if I thought there were a way to place reality back into check, I'd have to give it a try. I don't know if I'm speaking for many here - but I think that if most Americans who are aware of whats taking place in front of their very faces had the opportunity to either stop it or steer it away, they would.
Therein lies the problem... not even a thousand people, standing on a railroad track in front of a runaway train, could possibly even stop it.
*
Unfortunately, the people don't know how to stop it because:
1) They're absolute morons
2) They have too much power
However, bringing back to the stoping a runaway train, you wouldn't need many people to stop it if you brought something with you, like a sturdy, 3 yard thick titanium wall...
So unfortunately, (or fortunately in some cases...) revolution, or something along those lines, has to occur to stop what's happening if it gets far out of hand...
This post has been edited by Polymath_Misanthrope: Nov 25 2004, 01:50 PM
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