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Alexander Objections, Factual judgments Value judgments
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Cloaked Posted: Feb 20 2004, 04:06 AM
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Just to add. It is possible he met the person behind JT. He just didn't do it in 2034 or any other time in the future. If he did meet him it was in the present day.
Too bad this one has to end. All we have left is bb boris. Although that John Kyle guy is interesting.
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CraigG Posted: Feb 20 2004, 11:13 AM
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We also have that Icelandic guy, although he seems really p——ed at me grilling him and not automatically being a "true believer". Then again, maybe I just forgot my "Time Traveller Etiquette Rules":
1. Believe EVERYTHING they say.
2. Don't question them. They are right.
3. Don't ask how they do things.
4. Accept generalisations instead of hard facts and accurate predictions.
5. Accept cyclical arguments (or, better, don't start arguments in the first place).
6. Never, ever ask for proof. That is beneath them.
As for BB Boris, I'll say this much: he's pretty much never gotten p——ed at anyone, is extremely consistent in his story, and comes across like a very nice guy indeed.
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Alexander Posted: Feb 20 2004, 11:46 AM
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I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
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cerial Posted: Feb 20 2004, 11:50 AM
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heya alex
u gonna pop into IRC this morning ?
bren
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atn57 Posted: Feb 20 2004, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (Alexander @ Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM)
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
alex,
you still haven't answered any questions dealing with JT. This website you gave us is one of many sites that say the same thing. That doesn't prove much. Still awaiting your answers. Not answering the questions will just make more questions to appear.
thanks
ant.....
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Phoenix Posted: Feb 20 2004, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
Accord to all tongue.gif of us? Sounds like someone is upset.
I would like you to read my critique/paradoy-proof of Nvragnevr
QUOTE
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
I happen to find you on the believable side Alexander. I wish this wasn't the case because of the history you describe.
If there is a hoax, I don't think it will be the work of one person. I think Paul/Kyle's ideas are the most realistic representation of what a hoax would be like if there was one. I have seen no significant evidence put forward to support the theory of hoax yet though.
QUOTE
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
I know of some bad research that was done looking up the last name Titor. Please everyone, respect the privacy and safety of people if you decide to conduct this research.
While the link you gave is what I expect from our time. I do not see it as nicely meshing up with your own message, Alexander. The character and view points are distinctly different. If you are a hoax, this is not one of you "source materials".
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CraigG Posted: Feb 20 2004, 03:23 PM
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:: I have seen no significant evidence put forward to support the theory of hoax
:: yet though.
Maybe you should go check out the Anomolies forum, then. There's plenty of stuff on there to support the "Titor was a hoax" theory; and, of course, if he's proven to be a fake, Alexander will be out of luck (and adoring groupies).
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Cloaked Posted: Feb 20 2004, 03:44 PM
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There are 2 people that already know his real name. They haven't released the info because the person is real, lives in the present and releasing the info would infringe on their right to privacy.
As I said you very well could know the real person that used the name John Titor. You didn't know him in the future since neither you nor him are time travelers.
What they are doing is trying to get him to come forward and that tactic is working very well.
Unlike many I followed the JT story from the time it first started with the fax to Art Bell and the discussion on his message board. I followed it to Anomalies and TT Institute and watched it all unfold. I had forgot about it until a couple months ago when the topic at Anomalies came back to light since this is the year that things were supposed to happen. Since then more than enough info came forward to prove the story to be a hoax and it started to *** down again until the book came out.
Read all the threads at Anomalies. There are over 1000 posts. Study them. Then after you've done that there is only one conclusion you can come to. I've done my own research with the info extracted from forum posts. I was fairly certain in 2001 JT was a hoax and today I am 100% certain.
I will still give Alex the beneifit of the doubt. If you provide one piece of solid evidence. Email or fax to me, I'll supply you with the fax number, a pick of the device, a scanned and legible copy of the operating manual or some other tidbit to prove you are real.
If you do I will stand behind you and defend you till the end.
Until then I'll beleive you to be a hoax just as JT was and will continue my research until I can prove to the rest that you are not real.
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TampaUSA Posted: Feb 20 2004, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (Alexander @ Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM)
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Thanks for the link! I think we all knew that this is/was your motiviation.
QUOTE
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
C'mon now Alex, certainly you can do better than that...
QUOTE
There are 2 people that already know his real name. They haven't released the info because the person is real, lives in the present and releasing the info would infringe on their right to privacy.
As I said you very well could know the real person that used the name John Titor. You didn't know him in the future since neither you nor him are time travelers.
What they are doing is trying to get him to come forward and that tactic is working very well.
Yes, it is..
Note to self: Never yell "fire" in a crowded theatre...
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MadIce Posted: Feb 20 2004, 05:54 PM
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Alexander,
I am glad you like milk. Just don't drink it over there. Also, eating bone marrow is not smart. Thanks for your input about the water. My methods are wrong because you say so? OK. I know enough.
Let me be very clear on this. I see no use of banning you in any channels I am in. So feel free to visit them. It is a good thing to have ops with various opinions. I can imagine you don't like mine.
As you may know I am convinced you are not a TTer. That all starts with JT. There is enough evidence of him being not a TTer. If he is debunked (that will happen soon, watch the news at Anomalies) then that is the end of you too. But I play your game. So, until proven otherwise, I will gently post my objectons on this message board. And yes, you don't like that, but hey... That's life.
Remember you are the one that claimed to be a TTer and so far didn't put ANY piece of evidence to this board or the IRC channels yet.
Cya arround.
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MadIce Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:13 PM
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About the "predictions" of Alex...
QUOTE
Jan 19 2004, 11:47 PM: We have been to 2100 in fact 2142 is the largest jump that I have heard of.I see what you are saying and I too thought of that.Unfortunately foreseen knowledge is highly classified. I had heard that the human race was united in their effort to colonize mars.It was also rumored that venus could be terra-formed.I how ever don't beleive that.Mars however is very feasible.So I would assume that if we have TT's from the "future" I either do not have clearance or they stay hidden.
I have no knowledge of the book.But I would LOVE to read it.I bet john would have gotten a kick outta that!
So, that "highly classified" does not include worldlines in the past of our "time traveller". They have weird ethics and logic in his time. He can spread whatver he wants here, because he is going to leave this world anyway. Is that it? Or isn't he leaving?
Maybe we can answer that by looking at some Alexian Time Travel Theory.
The following story makes sense...
[09:53] (DWOMT): no i mean this..you said 10 worldlines...5 are similar...5 of you leave trying to get to the other 5 wordlines..so shouldn't another set of "5 Alexanders" be in those worldlines your trying to get to?..and what happens to them when the first set of "5 Alexanders" shows up?
[09:53] (MadIce): The current theory is 10e118, instead of infinite.
[09:54] (AlexanderTT): ok lets call them 1-5
[09:55] (AlexanderTT): 1 leaves and makes it to 2, 2 makes it to 3 , 4 to 5 and 5 to 1, and on the return trip it differs again, 1 to 3 2 to 5 etc...
[09:55] (DWOMT): kinda like a shuffle
[09:55] (DWOMT): mix the deck on the return trip
[09:55] (AlexanderTT): actually i typed that backward becuase on the return trip you are closer to your true home
[09:55] (AlexanderTT): yes
[09:55] (DWOMT): that's not very hard to understand
[09:56] (AlexanderTT): this is how it evens out and there are no paradoxes
[09:56] (DWOMT): very interesting
[09:56] (DWOMT): I don't see how no one else is getting that
[09:56] (MadIce): I don't think there are any paradoxes in TT.
[09:56] (AlexanderTT): if i change the past it is not my past but maybes 3's past
[09:56] (DWOMT): it's plain and simple
[09:57] (DWOMT): so what Alexander does here..might benefit Alexander #3's timeline
[09:57] (DWOMT): so it is a Joint Effot
[09:57] (DWOMT): Effort
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): but remember the joint effort
[09:57] (DWOMT): for all the Alexander's combined
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): what I do all 5 do
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): so it benefits us all
[09:57] (DWOMT): yup
[09:57] (DWOMT): see Alex..not all of us are stupid
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): now your getting it!!!
[09:57] (DWOMT): I totally get what your saying
[09:57] (DWOMT): it's not hard
[09:58] (DWOMT): you just gotten open your mind up to it
[09:58] (AlexanderTT): somone please copy that and post it in the board this might clear up confusion
[09:58] (DWOMT): lol
[09:59] (AlexanderTT): as funny as it is you would be suprised at how many do not get worldlines
Or doesn't it?
Alex would be able to change the future if he is planning to return to his time, but in order to do so he should NOT backtrack to a worldline which is close to his own. Why? Travelling to the past creates a split in the worldline. The one in which he did not arrive continues without his presence. The one in which he arrives develops according to the events caused by his presence. If he would backtrack in an attempt to reach his orginal worldline and time he would leave our worldline and re-enter the worldline in which the changes didn't took place. To backtrack he could simply travel to the time before he arrived here and then travel forward to his "own" time.
The backtracking technique is explained by John Titor as follows:
QUOTE
John Titor 30 December 2000 11:47: (…If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.")
A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.
On my worldline (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975.
I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).
From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I’m there. This line can be described as © and started when I got to (B).
I am now doing my mission on line © in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on © and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on © to the year 2000.
When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach © which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).
What does this mean for what Alex explained.
1) He hasn't got a clue how it works.
or
2) It doesn't matter what he does here as long as he get the job done because he is leaving anyway.
or
3) He is intended to stay on this worldline and never backtrack to consolidate the changes he made.
[10:08] (MadIce): I know. It os odd you don't see the poont that your presence is changing my future. JT said they used backtracking to compenstate that. That's a smart solution for that problem.
[10:08] (AlexanderTT): i did it on some worldline anyway might as well be this one
[10:08] (AlexanderTT): backtracking, is not what you think
[10:09] (MadIce): Backtracking will get you back to a point of tour origin.
[10:09] (MadIce): your origin
[10:09] (AlexanderTT): do not worry, all similar worldlines recieved time travellers too
[10:09] (AlexanderTT): i am not poluting yours
[10:10] (AlexanderTT): my original recieved them as well
[10:10] (DWOMT): interesting
[10:10] (AlexanderTT): i know this because it is so similar to mine
[10:10] (MadIce): In your history was there a time traveller called AlexanderTT that travelled to 2004?
[10:10] (AlexanderTT): it being yours
[10:11] (AlexanderTT): MadIce, the internet did not survive, I doubt my record did, I never thought to look it up
[10:11] (DWOMT): can you tell me why the 2004 election is so bad?..what happens?
[10:11] (AlexanderTT): also I did not know I would post untill I got here
[10:11] (MadIce): I am not looking for evidence. It is academic.
[10:11] (AlexanderTT): DWOMT, alot of things start heating up around election time
[10:12] (MadIce): Hence our histories will differ.
[10:12] (AlexanderTT): how wil they differ?
[10:13] (MadIce): You didn't have a past in which you travelled to our time and I have a past in which I remember you.
[10:13] (AlexanderTT): the damage I cause here will be too slight for anyone to notice
[10:13] (AlexanderTT): then look me up in 2039, I hope to hear word from one of you who survived
[10:13] (DWOMT): i hope I do
[10:13] (MadIce): Let's hope so.
[10:14] (DWOMT): I'd be 50 something in your time
[10:14] (MadIce): I am already an old fart wink.gif
[10:14] (DWOMT): lol
[10:14] (AlexanderTT): it will be interesting to see if one of you took my edvice and lived
[10:14] (DWOMT): well I am in San Antonio, Texas..what advice would you give me?..any suggestions?
[10:15] (AlexanderTT): fight and leave when the time comes to leave
[10:15] (MadIce): It would interesting to see if the wars did not happen because we now know what we know.
[10:15] (MadIce): wink.gif
[10:15] (DWOMT): is San Antonio not safe either?
[10:15] (AlexanderTT): no MadIce, it will still happen it is a mathmatical certainty
[10:16] (DWOMT): our city is more a large town than a metropolis
[10:16] (aguynwgalaxy): madice i dont think it is possible for us 30 people that know to change it
[10:16] (MadIce): Our smart DWOMT got chosen as president by accident and got drunk with the opposition and saved the world.
[10:16] (AlexanderTT): san antonio will be a staging point for operations for the govt. this is why it was nuked
[10:16] (MadIce): Just the Butterfly Effect.
[10:16] (DWOMT): wow
[10:17] (AlexanderTT): the butterfly effect is not as powerful as you think
[10:17] (AlexanderTT): a butterfly cannot change weather patterns
QUOTE
The idea that many simple nonlinear deterministic systems can behave in an apparently unpredictable and chaotic manner was first noticed by the great French mathematician Henri Poincaré. Other early pioneering work in the field of chaotic dynamics were found in the mathematical literature by such luminaries as Birkhoff, Cartwright, Littlewood, Levinson, Smale, and Kolmogorov and his students, among others. In spite of this, the importance of chaos was not fully appreciated until the widespread availability of digital computers for numerical simulations and the demonstration of chaos in various physical systems. This realization has broad implications for many fields of science, and it is only within the past decade or so that the field has undergone explosive growth.
Chaos@UMD.
Alex, click this link. Look around. The studies on that site involve exact studies. Can you imagine what would happen if you just walked arround in the most complex system on this Earth and shouted "I am a time traveller!"? Which complex system? Earth itself.
In short, the longer one stays and the more "waves" one makes the more likely the system is disturbed. In the cause of the World's society , which is a very complex system in which the Butterly Effect will only escalate faster, it would mean the worldline wouldn't look much the same by the time Alex arrives "home" when following this worldline.
Whether he is a pilot or not, it is so simple and important enough that TT basics would be on the crash course of any time traveller.
Anyway...
QUOTE
[10:08] (AlexanderTT): backtracking, is not what you think
Erm... Isn't it? Well, I know exactly what it is. John Titor explained it. See the quote above. Smart idea and very handy. Too bad you don't comprehend it.
QUOTE
[10:09] (AlexanderTT): do not worry, all similar worldlines recieved time travellers too
No, I don't worry. All the others would be backtracking too if they decided to do that. The fun part is that it works. Similar worldlines would do the same. Isn't that ingenious? wink.gif
I'll suggest that you read up on JT before make any more mistakes.
QUOTE
Alexander Jan 22 2004, 10:43 AM: To atm57:I will be leaving in January of 2005 if I do not leave by then, I will have to wait 2 years for the next available window of opportunity.
So, Alex does not have a clue, but's hard to find a reason why he would want to stay. Maybe he wants to raise a child here? Didn't he told us something along those lines on IRC. Nah. That would be just as silly as the story of the immortal. He leaves in january 2005. Spreading his story deliberately might cause an effect he needs to protect this worldline. Too far fetched. And silly. But it is possible... wink.gif
And 2005 is handy too. Alex can "milk" (forgive the expression) his followers until then without any opposition. Alex, that is not how things work. Your flock is starting to get inpatient.
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atn57 Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Alexander @ Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM)
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
Alex,
You have not provided any proof that you are indeed an TT. ( you have only
provided only stories about the future from what you seen) And so if it is found out soon that JT is a hoax it will be a good laugh. Still awaiting your response to all of this.
Thanks
Ant.
P.S.
you have been online today Feb 20 2004, 10:12 AM.
nothing to say yet?
thumbsup.gif
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bb boris Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (iooqxpooi Posted: Feb 18 2004 @ 03:43 PM)
Does Princeton (the town and university) survive?
(Since it is not near a major city)
Does Nash live through the war?
If not, who is the most acclaimed Physicist/Mathematician that is still alive then?
QUOTE (Phojeff Posted: Feb 19 2004 @ 11:46 PM)
Here are my questions for time travelers
1. What happens to the world economy if the first world nations, turn to civil war and
start blowing each other up?
2. What happens to the countries like Australia, New Zealand, the Fijian Islands, etc.
I ask because we are pretty far away from... everyone else. I appreciate though that
you may not know if international communications have been lost
3. Has International communication been lost? eg. do you still have communication satellites?
I am sorry, but this is just one question too many about the survival or otherwise of a given city, country, person, rose garden or whatever as a result of the alleged, announced nuclear war everyone is so excited about. Faced with the waves of fear this is generating, and I am compelled to make a statement:
This "nuclear war" could be describing one of two possibilities:
1) An all-out nuclear conflict, including ICBMs, MIRVs, H-Bombs and other delights. In such a case, do not worry at all, because:
a) It is very probably a lie, for I should certainly have heard of such a catastrophic event in my history.
b) If it is indeed true, your chances of anything ressembling survival on just about any part of this planet are remote in the extreme. In other words, if you believe this "nuclear war" will happen, forget it. There will be nowhere to run to. You're dead already, and should act accordingly without wasting precious time asking pointless questions.
2) A series of "di-rty bomb" attacks, with limited range, who would likely be remembered by the following generation as a "nuclear war", given the traumatic impact they would have. This is altogether more likely to occur, if only for the simple reason that it would be the "poor man's" (ie t-errorist/ rogue country/ or Dr Strangelove syndrome) way of exploiting the availabilty of nuclear fission as a weapon. I expect this would be spiced up by a liberal use of biological and chemical toys, why not go all the way, eh? Also, this would fit in with what my history tells me of this century, although the 2010s decade does seem a little early for anything other than the odd, isolated attack. I could be wrong. Whatever, in this case you would be better off asking your "guides to t-error" which places were hit. The list would be quicker to reveal than indicating those that weren't.
I frankly consider it scandalous that some TTs be content with giving people such dire predictions and to leave them hanging afterwards, almost begging for information. What, I have to ask, is the point? The only apparent result is fear, and this in an age that already has more than its fair share of it. One has to wonder about the true motivations of "Temporal Recon". It seems that the 2030s have been taken over by a most callous and cruel leadership. That is, at least, consistent with what I have read about that time.
I would not presume to put in doubt Alexander's story, but I am stating flatly here and now that there will not be an international nuclear war as such, but occasional conflicts escalating to a very limited nuclear exchange, and a few 9/11-style attacks, all of it consistent with the slow, growing turmoil that will caracterise the entire century.
Do not ask me where or when. I do not know. Let me just tell you that there will be so many disastrous events (environmental, medical, nutritional) that those wars will be just an other item. And that you will all adapt to it, as you have been for a long time already without even realizing it.
My advice, and I have said this before, is to focus upon living. Rediscovering your Humanity. Each one of you may have more to fear from being hit by a bus than a nuke. But that is so undramatic in comparison that you don't think about it. All I am saying is be consistent, and don't panic. This is life. Could end tomorrow. Enjoy it while it lasts. Don't waste your time being manipulated.
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TampaUSA Posted: Feb 20 2004, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE
Jan 19 2004, 11:47 PM: We have been to 2100 in fact 2142 is the largest jump that I have heard of.I see what you are saying and I too thought of that.Unfortunately foreseen knowledge is highly classified. I had heard that the human race was united in their effort to colonize mars.It was also rumored that venus could be terra-formed.I how ever don't beleive that.Mars however is very feasible.So I would assume that if we have TT's from the "future" I either do not have clearance or they stay hidden.
I have no knowledge of the book.But I would LOVE to read it.I bet john would have gotten a kick outta that!
Can't beleive I missed that one! LOL!!! crazy.gif
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MadIce Posted: Feb 20 2004, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE
Alexander Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM: I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
Just telling there are no holes in the story is not enough, Alex. Back it up. We are not your flock. wink.gif
QUOTE
Alexander Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM: So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Don't worry. We keep you informed. wink.gif
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Alexander Objections, Factual judgments Value judgments
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Cloaked Posted: Feb 20 2004, 04:06 AM
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Just to add. It is possible he met the person behind JT. He just didn't do it in 2034 or any other time in the future. If he did meet him it was in the present day.
Too bad this one has to end. All we have left is bb boris. Although that John Kyle guy is interesting.
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CraigG Posted: Feb 20 2004, 11:13 AM
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We also have that Icelandic guy, although he seems really p——ed at me grilling him and not automatically being a "true believer". Then again, maybe I just forgot my "Time Traveller Etiquette Rules":
1. Believe EVERYTHING they say.
2. Don't question them. They are right.
3. Don't ask how they do things.
4. Accept generalisations instead of hard facts and accurate predictions.
5. Accept cyclical arguments (or, better, don't start arguments in the first place).
6. Never, ever ask for proof. That is beneath them.
As for BB Boris, I'll say this much: he's pretty much never gotten p——ed at anyone, is extremely consistent in his story, and comes across like a very nice guy indeed.
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Alexander Posted: Feb 20 2004, 11:46 AM
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hermes-press.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com
Contact with an owner of hermes-press.com domain name.
www.hermes-press.com
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
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cerial Posted: Feb 20 2004, 11:50 AM
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heya alex
u gonna pop into IRC this morning ?
bren
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atn57 Posted: Feb 20 2004, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (Alexander @ Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM)
hermes-press.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com
Contact with an owner of hermes-press.com domain name.
www.hermes-press.com
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
alex,
you still haven't answered any questions dealing with JT. This website you gave us is one of many sites that say the same thing. That doesn't prove much. Still awaiting your answers. Not answering the questions will just make more questions to appear.
thanks
ant.....
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Phoenix Posted: Feb 20 2004, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
Accord to all tongue.gif of us? Sounds like someone is upset.
I would like you to read my critique/paradoy-proof of Nvragnevr
QUOTE
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
I happen to find you on the believable side Alexander. I wish this wasn't the case because of the history you describe.
If there is a hoax, I don't think it will be the work of one person. I think Paul/Kyle's ideas are the most realistic representation of what a hoax would be like if there was one. I have seen no significant evidence put forward to support the theory of hoax yet though.
QUOTE
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
I know of some bad research that was done looking up the last name Titor. Please everyone, respect the privacy and safety of people if you decide to conduct this research.
While the link you gave is what I expect from our time. I do not see it as nicely meshing up with your own message, Alexander. The character and view points are distinctly different. If you are a hoax, this is not one of you "source materials".
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CraigG Posted: Feb 20 2004, 03:23 PM
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:: I have seen no significant evidence put forward to support the theory of hoax
:: yet though.
Maybe you should go check out the Anomolies forum, then. There's plenty of stuff on there to support the "Titor was a hoax" theory; and, of course, if he's proven to be a fake, Alexander will be out of luck (and adoring groupies).
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Cloaked Posted: Feb 20 2004, 03:44 PM
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There are 2 people that already know his real name. They haven't released the info because the person is real, lives in the present and releasing the info would infringe on their right to privacy.
As I said you very well could know the real person that used the name John Titor. You didn't know him in the future since neither you nor him are time travelers.
What they are doing is trying to get him to come forward and that tactic is working very well.
Unlike many I followed the JT story from the time it first started with the fax to Art Bell and the discussion on his message board. I followed it to Anomalies and TT Institute and watched it all unfold. I had forgot about it until a couple months ago when the topic at Anomalies came back to light since this is the year that things were supposed to happen. Since then more than enough info came forward to prove the story to be a hoax and it started to *** down again until the book came out.
Read all the threads at Anomalies. There are over 1000 posts. Study them. Then after you've done that there is only one conclusion you can come to. I've done my own research with the info extracted from forum posts. I was fairly certain in 2001 JT was a hoax and today I am 100% certain.
I will still give Alex the beneifit of the doubt. If you provide one piece of solid evidence. Email or fax to me, I'll supply you with the fax number, a pick of the device, a scanned and legible copy of the operating manual or some other tidbit to prove you are real.
If you do I will stand behind you and defend you till the end.
Until then I'll beleive you to be a hoax just as JT was and will continue my research until I can prove to the rest that you are not real.
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TampaUSA Posted: Feb 20 2004, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (Alexander @ Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM)
hermes-press.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com
Contact with an owner of hermes-press.com domain name.
www.hermes-press.com
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Thanks for the link! I think we all knew that this is/was your motiviation.
QUOTE
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
C'mon now Alex, certainly you can do better than that...
QUOTE
There are 2 people that already know his real name. They haven't released the info because the person is real, lives in the present and releasing the info would infringe on their right to privacy.
As I said you very well could know the real person that used the name John Titor. You didn't know him in the future since neither you nor him are time travelers.
What they are doing is trying to get him to come forward and that tactic is working very well.
Yes, it is..
Note to self: Never yell "fire" in a crowded theatre...
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MadIce Posted: Feb 20 2004, 05:54 PM
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Alexander,
I am glad you like milk. Just don't drink it over there. Also, eating bone marrow is not smart. Thanks for your input about the water. My methods are wrong because you say so? OK. I know enough.
Let me be very clear on this. I see no use of banning you in any channels I am in. So feel free to visit them. It is a good thing to have ops with various opinions. I can imagine you don't like mine.
As you may know I am convinced you are not a TTer. That all starts with JT. There is enough evidence of him being not a TTer. If he is debunked (that will happen soon, watch the news at Anomalies) then that is the end of you too. But I play your game. So, until proven otherwise, I will gently post my objectons on this message board. And yes, you don't like that, but hey... That's life.
Remember you are the one that claimed to be a TTer and so far didn't put ANY piece of evidence to this board or the IRC channels yet.
Cya arround.
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MadIce Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:13 PM
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About the "predictions" of Alex...
QUOTE
Jan 19 2004, 11:47 PM: We have been to 2100 in fact 2142 is the largest jump that I have heard of.I see what you are saying and I too thought of that.Unfortunately foreseen knowledge is highly classified. I had heard that the human race was united in their effort to colonize mars.It was also rumored that venus could be terra-formed.I how ever don't beleive that.Mars however is very feasible.So I would assume that if we have TT's from the "future" I either do not have clearance or they stay hidden.
I have no knowledge of the book.But I would LOVE to read it.I bet john would have gotten a kick outta that!
So, that "highly classified" does not include worldlines in the past of our "time traveller". They have weird ethics and logic in his time. He can spread whatver he wants here, because he is going to leave this world anyway. Is that it? Or isn't he leaving?
Maybe we can answer that by looking at some Alexian Time Travel Theory.
The following story makes sense...
[09:53] (DWOMT): no i mean this..you said 10 worldlines...5 are similar...5 of you leave trying to get to the other 5 wordlines..so shouldn't another set of "5 Alexanders" be in those worldlines your trying to get to?..and what happens to them when the first set of "5 Alexanders" shows up?
[09:53] (MadIce): The current theory is 10e118, instead of infinite.
[09:54] (AlexanderTT): ok lets call them 1-5
[09:55] (AlexanderTT): 1 leaves and makes it to 2, 2 makes it to 3 , 4 to 5 and 5 to 1, and on the return trip it differs again, 1 to 3 2 to 5 etc...
[09:55] (DWOMT): kinda like a shuffle
[09:55] (DWOMT): mix the deck on the return trip
[09:55] (AlexanderTT): actually i typed that backward becuase on the return trip you are closer to your true home
[09:55] (AlexanderTT): yes
[09:55] (DWOMT): that's not very hard to understand
[09:56] (AlexanderTT): this is how it evens out and there are no paradoxes
[09:56] (DWOMT): very interesting
[09:56] (DWOMT): I don't see how no one else is getting that
[09:56] (MadIce): I don't think there are any paradoxes in TT.
[09:56] (AlexanderTT): if i change the past it is not my past but maybes 3's past
[09:56] (DWOMT): it's plain and simple
[09:57] (DWOMT): so what Alexander does here..might benefit Alexander #3's timeline
[09:57] (DWOMT): so it is a Joint Effot
[09:57] (DWOMT): Effort
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): but remember the joint effort
[09:57] (DWOMT): for all the Alexander's combined
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): what I do all 5 do
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): so it benefits us all
[09:57] (DWOMT): yup
[09:57] (DWOMT): see Alex..not all of us are stupid
[09:57] (AlexanderTT): now your getting it!!!
[09:57] (DWOMT): I totally get what your saying
[09:57] (DWOMT): it's not hard
[09:58] (DWOMT): you just gotten open your mind up to it
[09:58] (AlexanderTT): somone please copy that and post it in the board this might clear up confusion
[09:58] (DWOMT): lol
[09:59] (AlexanderTT): as funny as it is you would be suprised at how many do not get worldlines
Or doesn't it?
Alex would be able to change the future if he is planning to return to his time, but in order to do so he should NOT backtrack to a worldline which is close to his own. Why? Travelling to the past creates a split in the worldline. The one in which he did not arrive continues without his presence. The one in which he arrives develops according to the events caused by his presence. If he would backtrack in an attempt to reach his orginal worldline and time he would leave our worldline and re-enter the worldline in which the changes didn't took place. To backtrack he could simply travel to the time before he arrived here and then travel forward to his "own" time.
The backtracking technique is explained by John Titor as follows:
QUOTE
John Titor 30 December 2000 11:47: (…If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.")
A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.
On my worldline (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975.
I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).
From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I’m there. This line can be described as © and started when I got to (B).
I am now doing my mission on line © in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on © and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on © to the year 2000.
When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach © which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).
What does this mean for what Alex explained.
1) He hasn't got a clue how it works.
or
2) It doesn't matter what he does here as long as he get the job done because he is leaving anyway.
or
3) He is intended to stay on this worldline and never backtrack to consolidate the changes he made.
[10:08] (MadIce): I know. It os odd you don't see the poont that your presence is changing my future. JT said they used backtracking to compenstate that. That's a smart solution for that problem.
[10:08] (AlexanderTT): i did it on some worldline anyway might as well be this one
[10:08] (AlexanderTT): backtracking, is not what you think
[10:09] (MadIce): Backtracking will get you back to a point of tour origin.
[10:09] (MadIce): your origin
[10:09] (AlexanderTT): do not worry, all similar worldlines recieved time travellers too
[10:09] (AlexanderTT): i am not poluting yours
[10:10] (AlexanderTT): my original recieved them as well
[10:10] (DWOMT): interesting
[10:10] (AlexanderTT): i know this because it is so similar to mine
[10:10] (MadIce): In your history was there a time traveller called AlexanderTT that travelled to 2004?
[10:10] (AlexanderTT): it being yours
[10:11] (AlexanderTT): MadIce, the internet did not survive, I doubt my record did, I never thought to look it up
[10:11] (DWOMT): can you tell me why the 2004 election is so bad?..what happens?
[10:11] (AlexanderTT): also I did not know I would post untill I got here
[10:11] (MadIce): I am not looking for evidence. It is academic.
[10:11] (AlexanderTT): DWOMT, alot of things start heating up around election time
[10:12] (MadIce): Hence our histories will differ.
[10:12] (AlexanderTT): how wil they differ?
[10:13] (MadIce): You didn't have a past in which you travelled to our time and I have a past in which I remember you.
[10:13] (AlexanderTT): the damage I cause here will be too slight for anyone to notice
[10:13] (AlexanderTT): then look me up in 2039, I hope to hear word from one of you who survived
[10:13] (DWOMT): i hope I do
[10:13] (MadIce): Let's hope so.
[10:14] (DWOMT): I'd be 50 something in your time
[10:14] (MadIce): I am already an old fart wink.gif
[10:14] (DWOMT): lol
[10:14] (AlexanderTT): it will be interesting to see if one of you took my edvice and lived
[10:14] (DWOMT): well I am in San Antonio, Texas..what advice would you give me?..any suggestions?
[10:15] (AlexanderTT): fight and leave when the time comes to leave
[10:15] (MadIce): It would interesting to see if the wars did not happen because we now know what we know.
[10:15] (MadIce): wink.gif
[10:15] (DWOMT): is San Antonio not safe either?
[10:15] (AlexanderTT): no MadIce, it will still happen it is a mathmatical certainty
[10:16] (DWOMT): our city is more a large town than a metropolis
[10:16] (aguynwgalaxy): madice i dont think it is possible for us 30 people that know to change it
[10:16] (MadIce): Our smart DWOMT got chosen as president by accident and got drunk with the opposition and saved the world.
[10:16] (AlexanderTT): san antonio will be a staging point for operations for the govt. this is why it was nuked
[10:16] (MadIce): Just the Butterfly Effect.
[10:16] (DWOMT): wow
[10:17] (AlexanderTT): the butterfly effect is not as powerful as you think
[10:17] (AlexanderTT): a butterfly cannot change weather patterns
QUOTE
The idea that many simple nonlinear deterministic systems can behave in an apparently unpredictable and chaotic manner was first noticed by the great French mathematician Henri Poincaré. Other early pioneering work in the field of chaotic dynamics were found in the mathematical literature by such luminaries as Birkhoff, Cartwright, Littlewood, Levinson, Smale, and Kolmogorov and his students, among others. In spite of this, the importance of chaos was not fully appreciated until the widespread availability of digital computers for numerical simulations and the demonstration of chaos in various physical systems. This realization has broad implications for many fields of science, and it is only within the past decade or so that the field has undergone explosive growth.
Chaos@UMD.
Alex, click this link. Look around. The studies on that site involve exact studies. Can you imagine what would happen if you just walked arround in the most complex system on this Earth and shouted "I am a time traveller!"? Which complex system? Earth itself.
In short, the longer one stays and the more "waves" one makes the more likely the system is disturbed. In the cause of the World's society , which is a very complex system in which the Butterly Effect will only escalate faster, it would mean the worldline wouldn't look much the same by the time Alex arrives "home" when following this worldline.
Whether he is a pilot or not, it is so simple and important enough that TT basics would be on the crash course of any time traveller.
Anyway...
QUOTE
[10:08] (AlexanderTT): backtracking, is not what you think
Erm... Isn't it? Well, I know exactly what it is. John Titor explained it. See the quote above. Smart idea and very handy. Too bad you don't comprehend it.
QUOTE
[10:09] (AlexanderTT): do not worry, all similar worldlines recieved time travellers too
No, I don't worry. All the others would be backtracking too if they decided to do that. The fun part is that it works. Similar worldlines would do the same. Isn't that ingenious? wink.gif
I'll suggest that you read up on JT before make any more mistakes.
QUOTE
Alexander Jan 22 2004, 10:43 AM: To atm57:I will be leaving in January of 2005 if I do not leave by then, I will have to wait 2 years for the next available window of opportunity.
So, Alex does not have a clue, but's hard to find a reason why he would want to stay. Maybe he wants to raise a child here? Didn't he told us something along those lines on IRC. Nah. That would be just as silly as the story of the immortal. He leaves in january 2005. Spreading his story deliberately might cause an effect he needs to protect this worldline. Too far fetched. And silly. But it is possible... wink.gif
And 2005 is handy too. Alex can "milk" (forgive the expression) his followers until then without any opposition. Alex, that is not how things work. Your flock is starting to get inpatient.
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atn57 Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Alexander @ Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM)
hermes-press.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com
Contact with an owner of hermes-press.com domain name.
www.hermes-press.com
I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Also of course John Titor was a fake name, I use that as reference because that is how you knew him, and I would never disclose his real name.
Alex,
You have not provided any proof that you are indeed an TT. ( you have only
provided only stories about the future from what you seen) And so if it is found out soon that JT is a hoax it will be a good laugh. Still awaiting your response to all of this.
Thanks
Ant.
P.S.
you have been online today Feb 20 2004, 10:12 AM.
nothing to say yet?
thumbsup.gif
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bb boris Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (iooqxpooi Posted: Feb 18 2004 @ 03:43 PM)
Does Princeton (the town and university) survive?
(Since it is not near a major city)
Does Nash live through the war?
If not, who is the most acclaimed Physicist/Mathematician that is still alive then?
QUOTE (Phojeff Posted: Feb 19 2004 @ 11:46 PM)
Here are my questions for time travelers
1. What happens to the world economy if the first world nations, turn to civil war and
start blowing each other up?
2. What happens to the countries like Australia, New Zealand, the Fijian Islands, etc.
I ask because we are pretty far away from... everyone else. I appreciate though that
you may not know if international communications have been lost
3. Has International communication been lost? eg. do you still have communication satellites?
I am sorry, but this is just one question too many about the survival or otherwise of a given city, country, person, rose garden or whatever as a result of the alleged, announced nuclear war everyone is so excited about. Faced with the waves of fear this is generating, and I am compelled to make a statement:
This "nuclear war" could be describing one of two possibilities:
1) An all-out nuclear conflict, including ICBMs, MIRVs, H-Bombs and other delights. In such a case, do not worry at all, because:
a) It is very probably a lie, for I should certainly have heard of such a catastrophic event in my history.
b) If it is indeed true, your chances of anything ressembling survival on just about any part of this planet are remote in the extreme. In other words, if you believe this "nuclear war" will happen, forget it. There will be nowhere to run to. You're dead already, and should act accordingly without wasting precious time asking pointless questions.
2) A series of "di-rty bomb" attacks, with limited range, who would likely be remembered by the following generation as a "nuclear war", given the traumatic impact they would have. This is altogether more likely to occur, if only for the simple reason that it would be the "poor man's" (ie t-errorist/ rogue country/ or Dr Strangelove syndrome) way of exploiting the availabilty of nuclear fission as a weapon. I expect this would be spiced up by a liberal use of biological and chemical toys, why not go all the way, eh? Also, this would fit in with what my history tells me of this century, although the 2010s decade does seem a little early for anything other than the odd, isolated attack. I could be wrong. Whatever, in this case you would be better off asking your "guides to t-error" which places were hit. The list would be quicker to reveal than indicating those that weren't.
I frankly consider it scandalous that some TTs be content with giving people such dire predictions and to leave them hanging afterwards, almost begging for information. What, I have to ask, is the point? The only apparent result is fear, and this in an age that already has more than its fair share of it. One has to wonder about the true motivations of "Temporal Recon". It seems that the 2030s have been taken over by a most callous and cruel leadership. That is, at least, consistent with what I have read about that time.
I would not presume to put in doubt Alexander's story, but I am stating flatly here and now that there will not be an international nuclear war as such, but occasional conflicts escalating to a very limited nuclear exchange, and a few 9/11-style attacks, all of it consistent with the slow, growing turmoil that will caracterise the entire century.
Do not ask me where or when. I do not know. Let me just tell you that there will be so many disastrous events (environmental, medical, nutritional) that those wars will be just an other item. And that you will all adapt to it, as you have been for a long time already without even realizing it.
My advice, and I have said this before, is to focus upon living. Rediscovering your Humanity. Each one of you may have more to fear from being hit by a bus than a nuke. But that is so undramatic in comparison that you don't think about it. All I am saying is be consistent, and don't panic. This is life. Could end tomorrow. Enjoy it while it lasts. Don't waste your time being manipulated.
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TampaUSA Posted: Feb 20 2004, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE
Jan 19 2004, 11:47 PM: We have been to 2100 in fact 2142 is the largest jump that I have heard of.I see what you are saying and I too thought of that.Unfortunately foreseen knowledge is highly classified. I had heard that the human race was united in their effort to colonize mars.It was also rumored that venus could be terra-formed.I how ever don't beleive that.Mars however is very feasible.So I would assume that if we have TT's from the "future" I either do not have clearance or they stay hidden.
I have no knowledge of the book.But I would LOVE to read it.I bet john would have gotten a kick outta that!
Can't beleive I missed that one! LOL!!! crazy.gif
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MadIce Posted: Feb 20 2004, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE
Alexander Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM: I found this an interesting read.but then again I'm sure according to all of you this story is full of holes and contradictions.
Just telling there are no holes in the story is not enough, Alex. Back it up. We are not your flock. wink.gif
QUOTE
Alexander Feb 20 2004, 03:46 AM: So your close to finding the hoaxer.Let me know when you think you have "found" him.It will be good for a laugh.
Don't worry. We keep you informed. wink.gif
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