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KoshNaranek

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The Time Travel Forum (http://www.TimeTravelForum.tk)->SCIENTIFIC TIME-TRAVEL THEORIES!!->YOUR THEORIES?

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Rocking The Scientific Cradle
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KoshNaranek Posted: Dec 30 2003, 02:14 AM



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Hello.

As you know by now, I am fairly new here. I have stated that I have my own theories on how time behaves and on time travel in general. Well, now it is time for me to post my theoretical thoughts here. I STRONGLY urge any scientists who are members of this forum to either contact me, or spread word of this throughout the scientific community, so that this line of thought can be further studied! Here we go... my theory... REVERSION THEORY.

What is reversion theory? Put simply, reversion theory is time travel used for the purposes of propulsion. Yes, propulsion. Intergalactic propulsion. Before you laugh, allow me to illustrate how my theory works.

Imagine, if you will, a LARGE circle. Okay... the outer perimeter of the circle represents the "boundaries" of OUR universe... this boundary is constantly moving outwards and forward, as the universe is expanding. Okay, now, imagine that at the very center of this large circle, is a pinpoint dot. This dot represents the event horizon of the Big Bang event, or what I like to call "The Great Generator", from which all stellar and universal matter is given life. Okay. Now we have the visuals.

From the beginning of creation, all galaxies and stellar matter have been drifting AWAY from the great generator, much like the ripples in a pond, after you throw a stone into it. Okay... now we know that as of yet, there is no possible way to break the lightspeed barrier... no warp technology, no hyperspatial slipstreams, and no jumpgate technology. But... we have TIME on our side here. To understand this principle, you must also be willing to acknowledge the "Similar Evolution" theory. Similar evolution theory basically states the following...

Since the creation event, it has taken the Milky Way Galaxy that long to form, and that long to create solar systems, and that long to create a world within a solar system that holds life... US. It has taken us THIS LONG to come to this point in the universe, both physically and temporally. It would also then stand to reason that this is the amount of time needed for ANY galaxy to give rise to any form of life similar to us. By the same token, a galaxy AHEAD of us would most likely contain a life form far more advanced than we, for they have simply had more time to evolve. And the same goes for a world BEHIND our galaxy... they have had less time to evolve, and thus, they are likely to be more primitive forms of life than we.

If a way could be found to "estimate" the physical location of a nearby galaxy or solar system in a certain point in time when the target area is of equal distance from the creation event as we are now, we could travel to a world and make contact with someone at a probable level of equality. Also, we could simply explore the universe this way, effectively bringing the target area to us, rather than having to travel away from our home system. How would the universe come to us?

Think of the reversion effect like this... your ship or whatever never moves... the temporal reversion field throws you back in time, to the point that the target area occupies YOUR point in space. The effect is like standing on a rug, and having someone pull that rug out from under you, revealing your target region. Presto... you have just trversed the stars, much faster than light can, without the need for faster-than-light engines! But there is one BIG problem with this method...

As stated earlier, visualize a large circle. Unfortunately, we can only explore OUR half of that circle, for galaxies on the other side of the great generator are moving in the opposite direction, and most likely, time is also moving in the opposite direction on that half of the circle. If we try to bring those galaxies to us, we cannot, for they would simply be drawn back into the nothingness from which they came. Like I said... pond ripples.

The ONLY way to correct this problem is to use an approach where we no longer think along a single directional plane... if the first approach is akin to a level line, we must angle up by varying degrees, to now form a sphere... like the angles on a protractor, any galaxies in the constantly elevating or lowering degrees of directional plane, can then be contacted by having our ship mtach and face that directional plane during reversion. But even with this method, we still can only reach a limited number of galaxies on the opposite side of the cirlce.

There are of course, large margins of error for the closeness of target areas to our own position. To combat this, a leapfrog approach will need to be utilized, by making many small reversion jumps, with course corrections, until we arrive at our target. Okay, this theory is not perfect, but it is there. I welcome any positive and constructive feedback or help from those who know these things.

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opmmur Posted: Dec 30 2003, 06:42 PM



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KoshNaranek,

I find your theory very interesting; I believe you're onto something. The only problem I see is current technology not available to leapfrog to your destination. I also feel that the basic foundation of what you stated could very well be. Keep the good work out and please keep posting an eager to hear more.

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Phoenix Posted: Dec 30 2003, 08:41 PM



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I don't understand the spacial travel you assume time travel would have. Someone else had the same theoretical basis as you, as being one of the problems of time travel. You seemed to have turned it around and used it as a solution. I like that thinking.

My only concern is that distance is relative to a point. Now you suggest the center of the universe is what all things are moving away from. I have been told in my physics class, and I don't know weather this is a theory that will one day be outdated, that there is no center of the universe. That the universe is the three dimensional equivalent of a sphere with no point being the center.

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KoshNaranek Posted: Dec 30 2003, 10:51 PM



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Pheonix,

I tried presenting this theory in another forum, and was told by MANY folks that it was way beyond their comprehension. I do not know where you get the thought that the universe has no center. If this were the case, then from which point did the galaxies begin moving outward? If we reverse time enough, we'll locate the exact center of the universe.

Time's coverage of space IS its own solution. So far, nothing we know of can enable us to travel beyond lightspeed. Yet, scientific theory has PROVEN that the galaxies ARE moving away from us. For anything to move, takes time. Using this line of reasoning, we can use complex mathematical and spatial equations, to "best guess" calculate the position of a target region, at a fixed point in time, when it occupied an area of space close to us. We can then temporally jump to that target, and instantly be there... we have just travelled faster than light ever could have, without breaking any laws of lightspeed physics. Why? Because we did not try to go faster than light... we used TIME as our speed.

opmmur,

Thank you for your kind encouragement! I know that sadly, we currently have no way of testing out my theories. I also know that there are many variables involved in the leapfrogging approach as well. I have considered and am willing to address many technical questions about my theory, but keep in mind that while I do have many answers, I do not have them all. But I HAVE put much thought into this, and am eagerly awaiting being grilled on the matter.

But my main drive here, is to try and persuade the scientific community to pursue the study of TIME for propulsion, rather than trying to find a way to break the light barrier. Please, everyone, throw some more questions at me!

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Phoenix Posted: Dec 31 2003, 08:52 AM



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QUOTE

I do not know where you get the thought that the universe has no center. If this were the case, then from which point did the galaxies begin moving outward?


Yes, I asked that precise question to the physics teacher and he gave the analogy about being on an expanding balloon. That theory could just be full of hot air, but according to him, the further out we look to space, regardless of direction, we are looking towards the big bang.

QUOTE

we can use complex mathematical and spatial equations, to "best guess" calculate the position of a target region, at a fixed point in time, when it occupied an area of space close to us.


The equations aren't all that complex. They are just orbital patterns. The precision is what would be a pain in the butt to get.

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KoshNaranek Posted: Dec 31 2003, 05:47 PM



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The further we look out into space, REGARDLESS of direction, we're looking towards the Big Bang? Where did your teacher possibly get such a crazy idea? If this were true, then it would mean that the Big Bang is constantly and randomly shifting position!? No... just like an explosion in space, matter thrown outwards is done so from the focal point of the said explosion, and thus, there is a center to that explosion... the ignition point. I firmly stand behind my pond ripple sphere theory.

The only way I can possibly see any form of validity in what he is saying, is if he is referring to the many other hypothetical Big Bangs that could be occurring in companion universes, that are all along our own omniverse. But I doubt that that is what he means. By the very nature of space, if a galaxy is moving away from us, and we are moving away from the center, the that it just what is happening... galaxies do not have engines... a galaxy cannot just up and reverse course throught the universe. If we are moving away from something, then there was something there that originally gave us the initial push outward.

Again, because you must look at this as a sphere, yes, everything is moving outwards at an equal rate, but some galaxies appear to be moving away from us at odd angles, because they are on the "side" or "angled" planes of the sphere, so to us, they are not directly in front of or behind us.

Now, if you look at the teacher's statement another possible way, and you are facing the Big Bang by riding on an expanding balloon, then he is only partially correct... you are in essence, travelling WITH the initial "stuff" of the Big Bang event or explosion, but again, this is an very wide open issue, for it assumes that our galaxy is among the very first objects hurled out into the early universe. But again, you must consider this, and ask your teacher this as well... IF we are indeed to use the expanding balloon analogy, then what happens when you reverse time, to the point where you just began to inflate the ballon? You see how my point fits even here... everything returns to a beginning focal point in space. It is the point from where air first entered the balloon, that the stuff inside the balloon began to expand outwards.

And, yes... the precision element of the reversion calculations would indeed be the hardest part. smile.gif

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Phoenix Posted: Dec 31 2003, 09:46 PM



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I love interacting with you because your ideas make so much sense. Still alow me to show at least part of the reasonableness of the teacher's answer.
(This teacher sends up satellites into orbit to measure gama rays from the sun. He even designed the microchip used to process the data. So he is not merely a football coach that can assign problems from the book.)

You will acknowledge that the light we see from the sun actually took 8 minutes to reach the earth. Thus the sun we look at, if we do, is not the sun that exists right now, but one that was there 8 minutes ago. Further as we look out to Alpha Centauri, that is Alpha Centauri about four years ago. As we go further out into space we see things of an earlier and earlier date. This implies the farthest out that we can look would be towards the big bang, of our own universe, not of some other universe. And it would be in any direction that we looked.

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KoshNaranek Posted: Jan 1 2004, 04:39 AM



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Pheonix,

Okay... I think now I understand where your teacher is coming from. I still have a huge problem with his perspective, but I apologize if I sounded harsh last post. I think that your teacher is basically postulating that we are moving "inside" the Big Bang, along with it. Okay... I might be able to accept this line of reasoning. But the fact still remains, that if that is the case, then at one point in time, all this matter that's moving outward, and all this space, was at one point compressed into a much smaller form. This would still indicate a pond ripple/explosion effect, for from that initial point, stellar matter was decompressed, and vaulted outwards into creation.

As for your analogy with the sun's light... I do not really understand... of course, the only light we can see from our star, or any other star, is as old as the time it took to reach us. But here again, we are not using LIGHT as a method of speed or speed calculation... we are attempting to calculate WHEN an object was where. Our scale for movement is stellar drift, in the temporal. For in this instance, temporal and spatial calculations go hand-in-hand. When something moves, it takes time to move. Using this line of reasoning, we can for instance, target a certain galaxy, say Andromeda. We can determine the velocity Andromeda is travelling at. Then, we can determine its direction of travel. We then calculate a best-guess as to how long ago it occupied a point in space that we can revert to, to reach the target area. I do not understand how light comes into this per se. Perhaps you can educate me a bit more on this area?

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Phoenix Posted: Jan 1 2004, 06:52 AM



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QUOTE

This would still indicate a pond ripple/explosion effect, for from that initial point, stellar matter was decompressed, and vaulted outwards into creation.


I am in complete agreement with your general reasoning, but it assumes a Cartesian coordinate system (up,down,left,right,to,back). I believe scientists have reason to believe that the big bang and effects of relative imply a non Newtonian universe, one in which space warps. So the ideas that would apply to a pond, do not apply. I honestly must study the matter further, as I am very much inclined to accept your reasoning that you presented until I know why I am saying otherwise.

QUOTE

I do not understand how light comes into this per se. Perhaps you can educate me a bit more on this area?

QUOTE

the only light we can see from our star, or any other star, is as old as the time it took to reach us. But here again, we are not using LIGHT as a method of speed or speed calculation... we are attempting to calculate WHEN an object was where.


Ok you do accept that the light we see is as old as it takes to reach us. And this principle is true regardless of the direction we look? It does not matter if we are looking at the north star or the belt of Orion we we see when we look it is in the past. And how far into the past is based on how far it is from our point of observation. If we look say 13.8 billion light years out, what we would see would be 13.8 billion years old, regardless of direction. If the big bang happened at that time, we should see it.

Here is a related link that talks about how old the universe might be and how fast it might be expanding, from 65 km/sec/Megaparsec to 80 km/sec/Megaparsec, with the best value being about 72 km/sec/Megaparsec.


I think it is the geometry of it that is confusing. When we look further out, not only are we seeing into a past, but we are seeing into a past that was closer together. If we look into the past of the big bang the universe was in a very tight space which is why looking at different parts of space would be much closer together. It is like those maps of Antarctica on the bottom. The very ending line of the map is all the same point of the south pole, but we could say from any point on the map if we went straight down we would hit the south pole. This would sound very counter intuitive if we were thinking about the map in two dimensions.

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KoshUlkesh Posted: Jan 2 2004, 04:18 PM



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Pheonix,

Okay... even assuming this new line of reasoning, that we are indeed travelling WITH the force of the Big Bang, I would still maintain that there is or once was a phenomenon like the Great Generator... a single point from which all universal matter was created and expelled outwards. I maintain this for one simple reason... the fact still remains that some galaxies are ahead of us, whilst still others remain behind us. Again, the principle of time... the galaxies ahead of us were undoubtedly created before ours was, and thusly, those behind us were more recently created. This would indicate some form of ongoing process. If we reverse time enough, we'll be able to determine where the younger matter is pulled to, and there you'll find our Great Generator, or Big Bang event horizon.

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David Posted: Jan 2 2004, 05:27 PM



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user posted image

Maybe I can help here.

Red= point of big bang ignition
blue=our position in space/time
orange=an older entity/galaxy, whatever.
Silver cage= universe

If we are at the blue point, and are looking at the orange object, we are looking at an older object. it has existed longer than us. The light/image takes 1000 years to reach our point. We are looking at a 1000 year old image of the orange object, hence we are "seeing" the past, or a past event, but still looking "away from the point of creation, or big bang event.

If we were to look at an object toward the red point, we would be seeing a newer object. Say the object were the same distance away as the orange object. We would be seeing a 1000 year old image of a newer object.

Any direction we look, we will see an old image, but that would not indicate that we are looking toward the big bang point in space. (location)

If we were to look at the orange object, we would be viewing an object from the exact "time" of big bang, but not the "direction" of big bang.

In order to indicate the direction of the point of big bang, we would have to seek the newest objects possible.

One problem with proving this theory, would be the fact that new stars and galaxies are formed all around us, in all directions. How would we know if it was an infant star newly coming from the big bang point, or a new star forming from an ancient collection of matter older that ourselves?

I believe we are able to look in a specific direction of the "point of creation" but I don't know how we would know it.

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David Posted: Jan 2 2004, 05:53 PM



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I just thought of something while I was in the shower.

What if there were more than 1 big bang? What if big bang #1 spawned a number of other big bang-like events? Theoretically, one projectile from Bb#1 could explode, and send debris BACK toward the original location. We would then have the universe expanding in a lumpy sphere rather than one large round one.

Imagine throwing a rock into a pond, then throwing 8 more rocks in the ripple at once. ripples would be everywhere, in all directions.

As Phoenix stated, this could cause big bang events to be in front of, behind, and beside us at once.

Just a thought I had.

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Phoenix Posted: Jan 3 2004, 12:53 AM



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Ok I have been thinking about this and I believe I understand this entire ant on a balloon analogy and can explain it. What I can't explain is why people would conceive of things this way, I am going to have to look into this. But I am nearly certain it is the way scientists currently view the universe.

To begin with you are going to have to lose the concept of space going off into infinity. Instead you must imagine that if you travel one universe distance in any direction you wind right back up where you started. Thus we have the ant on the balloon analogy. When the universe was younger this universe distance was smaller in fact right when the big bang started the distance was a single point. The nature of the universe expanding is thus space expanding in all directions causing the universe distance to get longer. Does that make sense? The idea is there for me now, what isn't there is why.

I would be much more comfortable thinking about distances going off into infinity with the big bang at the center of a pond ripple effect. It may be that current scientific thinking will give up it's current perspective and Koshes' Idea with David's illustration will be accepted. Yet I am nearly sure that the ant on the balloon analogy is the idea that scientists use when talking about the expanding universe.

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opmmur Posted: Jan 3 2004, 01:50 AM



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Part of Schultz's "Theory of Super Space and Gravity"

Under a new modified Super String Theory of strings does not predict that the Einstein equations are obeyed exactly. String theory adds an infinite series of corrections to the theory of gravity. Under normal circumstances, if we only look at distance scales much larger than a string, then these corrections are not measurable. In fact, when these corrections become larger until the Einstein equation no longer adequately describes the space and time super geometry or describe the larger results of Super Space in motion.

The equations for determining the fabric of three-dimensional time and space geometry become impossible to solve except under very strict symmetry conditions, such as unbroken super symmetry, where the large correction terms can be made to vanish or cancel each other out. This is a hint that perhaps the fabric of large three-dimensional time and space is a fundamental part of the Gravity and Super Space Theory.

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KoshUlkesh Posted: Jan 3 2004, 02:36 AM



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Hooray!!! The forum allowed me to post again! smile.gif Okay, enough of that. I have a point to address one of David's points. I understand he is using the lightshift method. But he states that he would not know how to determine the direction of the point of creation. This I do not understand... all you must do is recognize which direction our galaxy and all others are moving, and reverse that course. In the case of MY visual, imagining pond ripples, the imagine, if you will, that OUR galaxy is on the "western" hemisphere of this great pond ripple effect, say somewhere in the midregion from the center point from which all the other ripples sprang out. Okay... any galaxies that appear to be moving away from us, that are BEHIND us appear to be doing so not because they are travelling in an opposite direction... they are merely moving outward, as well, only on a vector along the "eastern" hemisphere of the pond ripple effect. If you reversed the image, WE would be in the same place as the "other" galaxy. The other galaxy merely appears to be going in another direction, because our telescopes show it moving out and away behind us, rather than in front of us, so instead of following us, it appears to be going away in reverse. Like I said... if you think of a 3-dimensional explosion, or a pond ripple effect, all you must do is reverse time to the point where the first stone ignited the whole ripple effect, and you'll have your creation point.

ALL galaxies and cosmic matter are essentially moving along the same vector... away from the center, or creation point. I totally understand that when we're seeing distant objects, we're "seeing" the past. But seeing the past and travelling to it are separate issues. I am offering a way of looking at a possible approach to a technique to TRAVEL, using time's use of space.

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