US schools teaching religious beliefs in science

phase12

Junior Member
Messages
29
US schools teaching religious beliefs in science

Originally posted by Tippy@Dec 27 2004, 05:29 AM
Science gives us the understanding (always progressing) of the universe and how we react to it.? Mythology (Christian) gives us a two thousand year old book where sticks turn to snakes and snakes talk, where bad folks become pillars of salt - where people who do not have sex - get pregnant.


Much of this "Mythology" as you put it, has been proven to be metaphorical, and the longer time goes on, and the more we learn, the more is found to be true.

There are downsides to religion (i.e. wars, intolerance, etc. on the faults of humans, not the religion). On the upside, without organized religion, there would be no science, because we'd still be living in caves, making grunting noises, and eating partially raw meat.

The more we find in science, the more we are made aware of just how little we know. Organized religion is the only thing we ultimately have to fall back upon. Society, ultimately, will crumble without it as history proves a moral loss leads to catastrophe.

Oh, and BTW, calling something a "Myth" that to this day many great scientists, philosphers, and other great minds who fully adhere and believe in, is pretty darn arrogant.

I for one believe in evolution; but don't belittle those that don't agree with the "theory."
 

Tippy

New Member
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17
US schools teaching religious beliefs in science

Originally posted by phase12@Dec 27 2004, 01:49 PM


Much of this \"Mythology\" as you put it, has been proven to be metaphorical, and the longer time goes on, and the more we learn, the more is found to be true.

What, exactly, has been found to be "true"? I understand that specific historical rulers from the Bible - and natural events, have been documented by other historians - but I don't believe any of the supernatural things have ever been proven. Yet it is those supernatural aspects that make it a religion.

There are downsides to religion (i.e. wars, intolerance, etc. on the faults of humans, not the religion). On the upside, without organized religion, there would be no science, because we'd still be living in caves, making grunting noises, and eating partially raw meat.

I can't follow your line of reasoning here. Science is not born of religion - it was born 'despite' religion. Science, by its very nature is anti-religious.

The more we find in science, the more we are made aware of just how little we know. Organized religion is the only thing we ultimately have to fall back upon. Society, ultimately, will crumble without it as history proves a moral loss leads to catastrophe.

I don't believe that statement has any basis at all in fact. As people become MORE educated - they become LESS religious. Because religion relies on a basis of superstition to survive - the more one knows - the less superstitious they are. That fact is evident in countries with very little education - and high superstition value. A major tenet of religion is the need to under-educate and subjucate Consider the strength of Sharia Law and the need to repress women. Forbid them to learn. Even today - in many patrilineal religions (Christianity included) men are encouraged to lead a household and women are taught to be submissive.

Oh, and BTW, calling something a \"Myth\" that to this day many great scientists, philosphers, and other great minds who fully adhere and believe in, is pretty darn arrogant.

I certainly do not mean to be arrogant. I am far from arrogant. I am simply using the word that applies here. Look at the definition:

Myth -
A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.



I for one believe in evolution; but don't belittle those that don't agree with the \"theory.\"


I hope you now understand that I was not belittling you - or anyone who holds certain beliefs.

I am just using the terminology that I think is appropos.
 

phase12

Junior Member
Messages
29
US schools teaching religious beliefs in science

What, exactly, has been found to be \"true\"? I understand that specific historical rulers from the Bible - and natural events, have been documented by other historians - but I don't believe any of the supernatural things have ever been proven. Yet it is those supernatural aspects that make it a religion.

It was mainly the historical aspects I was referring too. As far as the supernatural events, how are you going to prove or disprove any of that? There are plenty of scholars that have worked dilligently to find any eye-witness accounts from over 2000 years ago, some think they had. But how do you prove it? That's where issue of faith comes in, which is not a point I wanted to make, since faith has no true basis in science, if not for the the actual scientist's spiritual beliefs (or the lack of) which shouldn't play a role in his work. I don't dispute that.

I can't follow your line of reasoning here. Science is not born of religion - it was born 'despite' religion. Science, by its very nature is anti-religious.

Religion has been the glue to create and hold societies together. People working and living together for the common good. Organized religion has meant organized society. Without organized society, there is no science, there is no technology, there is nothing human about it. People were animals before they found that glue. I don't believe science to be anti-religous. Science does not have to hold one back from his/her belief in a God. Science is a way for us to understand things better, so we can better ourselves (except when we're blowing each other up.)

I don't believe that statement has any basis at all in fact. As people become MORE educated - they become LESS religious. Because religion relies on a basis of superstition to survive - the more one knows - the less superstitious they are. That fact is evident in countries with very little education - and high superstition value. A major tenet of religion is the need to under-educate and subjucate Consider the strength of Sharia Law and the need to repress women. Forbid them to learn. Even today - in many patrilineal religions (Christianity included) men are encouraged to lead a household and women are taught to be submissive.

Those are faults within mankind, and not religion. I was born in the Soviet Union; an atheistic highly-educated society. We see how that turned out, now don't we? When my family came to the United States, we were all athiests, since then, most of us have become religous, and that includes my mother and uncle, both M.D.s that used to laugh and scoff at people of faith. Also, the United States, which basically propelled the world into a technological frenzy, is one of the most religous modern countries on the entire planet. I was an athiest until my early 20's, and I can assure you that I didn't change my mind and my ways because I suddenly became less educated.


I certainly do not mean to be arrogant. I am far from arrogant. I am simply using the word that applies here. Look at the definition:

Myth -
A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.

In order for something to be a myth, it has to be completely disproven. Yes, it's true that there are things that have been disproved from religion, but that can be said about the many facets of science and history as well.

I hope you now understand that I was not belittling you - or anyone who holds certain beliefs.

I am just using the terminology that I think is appropos.

I apologize for suggesting you were arrogant. Perhaps it is my mistake in doing so because I look back to when I was an aethiest, and I was a rather arrogant little individual at the time. ;)
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
US schools teaching religious beliefs in science

Anybody here have the experience of going to Catholic Schools and learning about scientific theory / evolution from a religious person? It was a gas watching the conflict on their face and in their words.

It is quite possible that the more educated / knowledgeable a person becomes the More Spiritual they can become. Sadly, sometimes some of the paths out there force you to rely upon faith as apposed to other paths that recommend that you experience what is possible before you pass. The only possible way to appreciate that premiss is to have that foundation of knowledge started by education.
 

phase12

Junior Member
Messages
29
US schools teaching religious beliefs in science

Originally posted by StarLord@Dec 28 2004, 07:00 PM
The only possible way to appreciate that premiss is to have that foundation of knowledge started by education.

I completely agree.
 

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