I am the Water Bearer

[Christ's Lamb]

I think his point is that using the bible as the basis for your moral compass is a pretty flawed way to live.

There are a number of reasons why people (myself included) think this way, so I'll only share a few:

"A bitched shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord."

A bitched is someone who was born outside of wedlock, which makes you filthy, apparently. So filthy in fact that it takes ten genetic steps down the line to wash how filthy it makes you.

Wait, but what if your dad abandoned you and your mom after she had given birth to you... That means you're going to be held responsible and deprived of God's love...

So wait, does this mean Christian orphanages are hypocritical institutions if they're taking these kids to church?

The bible also specifically prohibits the following:

Sexual acts
(All of these merit death)

• Homosexual intercourse between men (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13).
• Adultery (Leviticus 20:10-12, man and woman).
• Lying about virginity. Applies to girls who are still in their fathers' homes, who lie about their virginity, and are presented to their husband as a virgin. The accused is guilty until proved innocent. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
• The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire — Leviticus 21:9).
• Rape of a virgin who is engaged. If she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels. No mention is made of the girl’s opinion, and no punishment is specified for raping a single non-virgin female. (Deuteronomy 22:25)
• Being the victim of rape, if one is an engaged female virgin and the rape occurs in a city. If it takes place in a field, the victim is spared because nobody would have heard her screams. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)
• Marrying a woman and her daughter. Mother, daughter, and husband are all burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

Food and drink

• Consuming blood; blood in meat is not exempt (Genesis 9:4).
• Eating a cheeseburger (or anything else that mixes meat and dairy — Exodus 23:19).
• Eating fat (Leviticus 3:17).
• Eating pork (Leviticus 11:7-8).
• Eating a fellowship offering more than three days old (Leviticus 19:5-8).
• Eating aquatic creatures lacking fins or scales (Deuteronomy 14:9-10).
• Eating any meat not killed according to the kosher practice (Deuteronomy 12:21).

Idolatry

• Consulting a psychic or spiritualist (Leviticus 19:31).
• Being a psychic or spiritualist, punishable by death (Leviticus 20:27).

Daily life

• Performing any work on the sabbath (Exodus 20:10).
• Planting more than one kind of seed in a field (Leviticus 19:19).
• Wearing clothing woven of more than one kind of cloth (Leviticus 19:19).
• Cutting the hair on the sides of your head or clipping of the edges of your beard (Leviticus 19:27). This commandment is the reason why Orthodox Jews often sport sidelocks and big beards.
• Touching the dead carcass of a pig (Deuteronomy 14:8).
• Cross-dressing (Deuteronomy 22:5).

New Testament
Although the New Testament largely served as an abrogation of the stricter forms and practices of the Mosaic Law, it did codify a few new prohibitions unstated in the text of the Old Testament.

Slaves

• Disobedience (Ephesians 6:5).

Women

• Speaking in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
• Homosexual intercourse between women (Romans 1:27)

....And it goes on and on and on... And this is just the stuff the bible says isn't okay. The stuff it DOES say is okay include classics like slavery and much else.

At this point you're saying "But some of those things are okay! We know the difference"... Well, that's great - but where do you draw the line? Being able to pick and choose between what the bile says is okay and not okay means your moral code and understanding of right and wrong stems from somewhere else.

If it stems from somewhere else, then you obviously already know how to be a kind and loving person.

Why alienate people by speaking like you just walked out of the Old Testament and quoting scripture all the time? Just be a good person.

I have nothing against religion at all. While it's not for me, my father is a Christian and I happily go along with him to Easter and Christmas services because it's important to him and it's a positive experience. He uses religion as a means to access a community of like-minded people who want to better themselves, as it should be.

He certainly doesn't walk around proclaiming to be "the water bearer", either. That's either an act or there's some kind of insecurity, instability or self-loathing behind that.

The Old Testament was for a different time and place, although still very, very useful, most people cant understand why it says some of these things. You must understand that when it was written it made total sense and was not taken to be cruel or mean, but to the benefit of the people who it spoke of. People did not understand what it meant anymore when Jesus' time rolled around (speaking about the average peasant), thus God incarnated on this Earth as the person we now know as Jesus to established the "new covenant" or a new connection between Heaven and Earth.

Age of Aries - Establishment of connection between Man and God (Prophet/Teacher: Mosses)
Age of Pieces - Establishment of connection between Heaven and Earth (Messiah: Jesus)
Age of Aquarius - Establishment of Unity and Brotherhood of Man (Teacher: Myself)

For the "rules" about food, Jesus said, "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." (Matthew 15:11)

For slavery,
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21:16)
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)
"And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him." (Ephesians 6:9)
"a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all." (Colossians 3:11)

Slavery was different back in Ancient Israel. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.
*Disobedience goes for all people. If a slave punches his/her master, then it will only hurt the one who is doing the punching. Same if the master punched the slave.

I will provide a link that covers the rest because "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." (Proverbs 26:4)
*Also - You cant quote the bible and only put half of what it is said in the quote so you can bend the quote to make it something you want it to say. The bible gives explanations for everything its says and why it should be like that.
Does Deuteronomy 22:28-29 command a rape victim to marry her rapist?

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

For every statement in the bible explaining how one is allowed to live or not live, there's an equally contradictory passage elsewhere. The trend seems to be "interpreting" God's word now, which demonstrates the point I was making exactly. In order to interpret the meaning, you have to have a moral compass or sense of right and wrong that exists separately and outside of it.

Again, there's nothing wrong with spreading love and kindness. I think that's the most amazing thing a person can devote themselves to and I'm glad it happens. However, there is a line between being a good and loving person and commiting oneself to a life of piety for fear of "being punished" and then spreading that fear under the guise of love.

The rest of my response is pretty long winded, so here's a video that sums it up for those of you who don't have the time for all of this:

Most religions, at their core, are about you being a bad person. A sinner. The Christians I've met and the churches I've attended have all taught that people have something fundamentally wrong with them.

It’s crucial to the belief system.

In order to need a savior you have to have something to be saved from. According to most, that something is ourselves.

Now at this point you're likely saying "No, Cosmo, it's sin you need saving from; not yourself. It’s really something external to you"

Okay, but this isn’t exactly an honest representation of how most Christians are taught to think and talk about themselves. When the public spotlight turns away and they begin to talk to each other and to themselves, the self-hatred and critical language comes out. I know this from multiple first-hand experiences.

I've heard it in their prayers. I've heard it in their songs. It’s inseparable from the narrative they recite to themselves every day.

Rather than building us up and affirming those parts of ourselves which are generous, productive, resourceful, and good, this discipline of self-loathing tears us down, reduces us, and teaches us to see ourselves in the worst possible light. We're told that anytime we do something right, that is God working in us, and anytime we do something wrong, that’s just me being me.

Think about that for a minute. It’s no wonder most of the artistic expressions we see from religious people exhibit a profound sense of inadequacy, indebtedness and dependency.

We are taught that dependence on God is the truest relationship to which anyone could aspire. But why? Because we are supposed to see ourselves as incapable of producing anything truly good or valuable ourselves.

To finish this one up, I need to nitpick your comments a little:

The Old Testament was for a different time and place, although still very, very useful, most people cant understand why it says some of these things.

So I suppose you can?

You must understand that when it was written it made total sense and was not taken to be cruel or mean, but to the benefit of the people who it spoke of.

God used to be okay with fathers forcing their daughters into marriage and taking slaves? But then he changed his mind? Sounds very male-centric egotistical fallible God to me.

People did not understand what it meant anymore when Jesus' time rolled around (speaking about the average peasant), thus God incarnated on this Earth as the person we now know as Jesus to established the "new covenant" or a new connection between Heaven and Earth.

Jesus was not the incarnation of God. If anything, he was just a man with a philosophy on how to live life that's gradually been taken way out of context.

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “No one is good except God.”

 

[trekie4ever]

You're in luck water bearer. I'm the Devil

 

[arvin]

The day will come that religion will become extinct due to the aquired knowledge of man. Especially to those who decoded the conspiracy of creation of man. so FUCK RELIGION.

God evolved from an ape.

 

[Christ's Lamb]

The day will come that religion will become extinct due to the aquired knowledge of man. Especially to those who decoded the conspiracy of creation of man. so FUCK RELIGION.

God evolved from an ape.

Hahaha,

If you do not want the help, you don't have to except it. Truth is Truth and will always be Truth. Stay with this world if you want, but remember this world will not last even the scientists agree with that. I do not let this world be my Truth, I let the Truth be my Truth.

 

[trekie4ever]

Hahaha,

If you do not want the help, you don't have to except it. Truth is Truth and will always be Truth. Stay with this world if you want, but remember this world will not last even the scientists agree with that. I do not let this world be my Truth, I let the Truth be my Truth.

The Truth? Did you order the Code Red!?

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

The day will come that religion will become extinct due to the aquired knowledge of man. Especially to those who decoded the conspiracy of creation of man. so FUCK RELIGION.

God evolved from an ape.

Hahaha,

If you do not want the help, you don't have to except it. Truth is Truth and will always be Truth. Stay with this world if you want, but remember this world will not last even the scientists agree with that. I do not let this world be my Truth, I let the Truth be my Truth.

This is a good example of the points I made above... You proclaim to know "the truth" and then give us subtle warnings about how it won't end well for us who don't totally agree with you or identify as part of your belief system.

I've got no problem with someone having faith and using (some of) the philosophies in the bible as standards to live by. I do have a problem with people trying to force their belief systems on us with warnings about how we're all going to pay the price in the end if we don't repent. We're not bad people and we don't need saving because we're inherently flawed.

If there's any "truth" in the world, it's this:

Be a good person, don't do something you know will harm someone else and try your best in everything you do.

 

[Khaos]

Cosmo, people are going to believe in what they want to believe in. There's no changing that. You can scream at them until you're red in the face, pull out thousands of facts that debunk their belief, but they'll still believe it, because its that, their belief.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

Cosmo, people are going to believe in what they want to believe in. There's no changing that. You can scream at them until you're red in the face, pull out thousands of facts that debunk their belief, but they'll still believe it, because its that, their belief.

They're more than welcome to do so! I'm not screaming at anyone (at least I don't think so) or trying to change anyone's mind, just countering one extreme with another because I enjoy a good debate. My intention isn't to offend anyone, but I suppose it can happen given the subject matter.

Other alternatives are to ignore him (which is counter to the purpose of a community thread), troll or mess with him in some fashion (which I won't because he seems like a decent enough guy) or go along with what he says (which I won't). I think a friendly debate and providing evidence to contradict his assertions is far more interesting than any of those options.

 

[TnWatchdog]

One thing I learned from my father...never argue over politics or religion...you just can't win. Picture someone that wants to discuss their religous views with the lady in the flowery hat...better off changing subjects.