John Titor Research Updates!

[virtualgirl]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

A few other things found. Read them and come to you own conclusion.

http://www.jacksonvillefilmfestival.com/fe...llionDollar.asp


Has anyone ever heard of a Carl Haber. Just curious. He is a senior scientist at Berkeleys National lab. Physics Division


It also seems that Haber has allegedly been involved in some questionable deals.
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/c...e_wheeling.html

 

[virtualgirl]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Also, I've found this Oliver Williams. Take a look at the link and read the summary of this book. This is interesting in itself. It opens the door to other motives.

http://www.spckonline.com/spck/display.asp...lliams&m=4&dc=8

 

[Goodwin]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

 

[Mudpuppy]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"LetThereBeLight!\")</div>

What was I talking about?

Oh, my new theory, that has not seem to sink into their brains there yet.
There is only time, and the movement of time makes everything else, somehow that is perceived. That is because, of reading last night till 3:30 AM about all this stuff -- like the mutliverse, modal logic, and omiverse, and philosophy, all considering that parallel universes do exist, but which interpretation is correct -- the Copenhagen interpt, or the other major one, I forget the name of now without looking it up.[/b]

The Copenhagen Interpretation (Today the Copenhagen interpretation is mostly regarded as synonymous with indeterminism, Bohr's correspondence principle, Born's statistical interpretation of the wave function, and Bohr's complementarity interpretation of certain atomic phenomena)

and

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle (The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa)

I personally prefer Fred Allan Wolf's interpretation of the UP ("for dummies" and those of us who could never fathom physics): electons act like naughty little boys.....behaving when being observed and acting out when no one is looking. :lol:

To sort of bring the discussion back around to the Titor/Haber connection, here's a nice exchange between Darby and Jay:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darby\")</div>

Jay,
If you haven't completed the pre-production shooting and interviews it might be an interesting follow-up with Larry Haber to ask him about the Celebration, Florida connection to the Titor Saga.

If you haven't already read the appropriate posts I'll give you the synopsis of the Celebration Connection:

This is the original site where Titor first posted as \"TimeTravel_0\". Raul Burriel is the owner of this site. At the time that Titor first appeared Raul was also the SysAdmin of the Celebration community website and BBS forum (http://www.34747.org). On that site he had several hot links to other sites that he owned - including this one. (Raul is not otherwise involved in the story nor is he involved with Haber or the JTF.)

Titor made his appearance here and on Art Bell's Post-2-Post (P2P) site and eventually left. Four years later the John Titor Foundation (JFT) is organized as a Florida Limited Liability Company. It is housed at one of Larry Haber's office addresses in Celebration along with a movie production studio, graphic arts studio and sound production studio. Larry is Chief Legal Counsel and Business Manager for the JTF.

We've always found it a bit strange that \"Mom\" Titor, having been warned about the danger that she, Dad and Little John would be in if their identities were discovered by the enemy of John Titor (our present government), chose among all possible attorneys an entertainment attorney to represent the family \"problem.\"

Another problem that has come out of the John Titor Foundation are \"The Book\" and \"The Radio Program.\" Ben Z aka \"Buzzmaker\" produced the radio program. He said that he is a friend and business associate of Larry Haber's. He made no bones about the fact that the radio program is fictional and that he was under the impression that the Titor Saga was an online role playing game. He also said that the \"additional material\" (additional schematics and notes) included in copies of The Book (if purchased directly from the JTF rather than through E-Bay) were \"faked\" by the book writing staff at JTF.[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Jay\")</div>

In regards to the Celebration connection, Larry did talk about having worked there but didn't go in to much detail. One thing he wanted to make very clear is that he no longer works out of Celebration. I guess there have been many visitors looking for his offices and taking pictures and it has started to annoy the people over there. [/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darby\")</div>

Jay,
Thanks for the reply. We've known that Larry maintains law offices outside of Celebration for quite some time. However he still lists the JTF address, where he is the business manager, as 606 Front Street, Celebration, FLA 34747. VISI Corp also maintains that address. Larry is (we believe) still Chief Legal Counsel for VISI. That's the graphics arts studio. Front St Productions maintains the same address. That's the film and audio production unit.

And Larry still lives in Celebration. In fact he is the \"First Person\" of Celebration according to their own lore. He was the first person to move in when the community was formed by Disney.

I know that you're a young film maker and don't want to make too many waves before your career even gets off the ground, but you do understand and know that Larry is not just a hack lawyer who claims to be an entertainment attorney? He's the real deal and quite well known in Florida, Los Angeles/Hollywood and New York.

That's the concern. When people are in trouble and in need of legal advise because \"the government\" might be out to get them, their country is about to be plunged into a civil war and 3 billion people are about to die in a world war is it logical that they seek out an entertainment lawyer to form an LLC, give them advise about how best to market coffee mugs, t-shirts, books and films and make the lawyer the business manager?

Or, frankly, is it logical to entertain the thought that the principles of the JTF are Group Titor and includes \"Boomer\", the author of the John Titor Saga - who may well be Larry Haber?

One interesting question might be to ask Larry if he has a brother who is a physicist at a West Coast physics research laboratory.

All of us understand that Larry has been beseiged with inquiries (even though he has answered exceedingly few of them). For my part I've discouraged people on Anomalies from going a-knocking at his door. This is, after all, just an online fiction. We also understand Larry's annoyance with the situation.

But...

This story was running here, on Anomalies.net and (before it closed down) Post-2-Post on Art Bell's old BBS for almost four years before the JTF was officially formed by Larry. He chose to make that move and he knew precisely how popular the topic is and was and that it has been somewhat contentious. For him to complain about the \"publicity\" is a bit naive given the totality of the circumstances. The more so considering that his son Brandon became involved last year by posting on Anomalies. [/b]

Perhaps Virtual wasn't so far off base afterall......you know what they say....where there's smoke, there's fire.......

Just my two "sense" worth.

Mudpuppy



P.S.

Speaking of Heisenberg, here's something cute to inject a little levity:

Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler​

by John Walker​

9th August 1995​

Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler, after equal invariant intervals in purgatory, find themselves before the Throne of God.

As a man, they exclaim, "What did I do to merit an eternity down (brrrrr) there"?

God thought for a moment; when you're omnipresent in spacetime there's no need for haste. He turned first to Einstein.

"Albert," he said, "you showed your species My creation in its most elegant form, law without Law. Then, inflamed by wartime passion, you urged the transformation of your discovery into a weapon of mass destruction."

Einstein shuffled his feet and nodded subtly. He resisted the temptation to stick his tongue out. God turned His omniscient Eyes toward Heisenberg.

"Werner, you discovered that I do play dice, and you glimpsed that I have to if anything interesting's going to happen--your last words were, `I will ask Him why there is turbulence'. I will answer you, `So there can be Heisenberg'. But you stayed in Germany, Werner! You worked on a reactor for Hitler; you taught physics to brown-shirted Nazi thugs. You'll recall that my Son is Jewish."

"Frank, Frank, Frank," God continued, "didn't you read my book? I read yours, you know. Does the phrase `Thou shalt have no other gods before me' ring a bell? How about `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending'? You not only wanted to have another God before Me, you wanted to be Him. And the money, Frank...do you know how piddling an advance I got for the Bible?. And you assumed causality--you Frank! You should know me better than that."

Tipler, almost defiant, raised his head and fixed God with a cold stare. "Why are there singularities in Your universe?"

"Because there are things I don't want you to know," God responded calmly.

Heisenberg, his dying question answered, remained silent, pondering the choices he'd made during his life on Earth.

Einstein seized the moment, "Look, Old One", he said, "physics is local. You made it that way; I figured it out. But why is there that spooky action-at-a-distance nonlocality in quantum mechanics?"

God chuckled. Even experiencing all of spacetime at once, such events were rare. "Albert, your greatest talent has always been not finding the right answer--anybody could do that--but asking the right question. Your generation learned physics assuming I was a great watchmaker; you destroyed that notion, but most of you died off before it became evident what I was. I create abstract systems from pure information, Albert. I'm a programmer.

"Quantum nonlocality is a bug."

God turned to Saint Peter. "Einstein and Heisenberg go to Heaven. Send Tipler to the massive rotating cylinder to try again. Next case."

God hated these Judgement Days; he couldn't wait (to the extent that's possible for an omnipresent being) to get to back to his craps game with Wotan, Jove, and Shiva. Saint Peter looked up from his infinite scroll, "Fourth Commandment: blasphemy--eternal damnation. Send in Lederman and Hawking". What was it about these physicists, God wondered, as they approached the Throne.

 

[virtualgirl]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

LOL, Dang Mudpuppy...great find. And to think how mad Darby got with me last year. I still see everything happening the same as that future. It's already happening but that doesn't mean someone didn't take the story and turn it into a drama. Now Darby is using the same evidence he condemned me for.

 

[sinister]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"virtualgirl\")</div>

Sinister,
I think it might be time to start a new thread for a survival list to help people that don't have the knowledge. ?I told Heggy I would start one but because I'm in the middle of writing a book on the subject, I've been hesitant. ?I don't want anyone to feel my material came from the thread. ?I have most of the research done. ?I'm sorting and writing now. ?Anyway, let me know what you guys think. ?I have alot of information to add to it.

VG[/b]

Yes, that would be much appreciated, I've been compiling a vast archive of documents I got from the early 90s online known as the Black Crawling Archives. I can understand your quandry tho, being something of a writer myself. I would say once you've decided on all the info you want to include in your book, perhaps just provide us the research? It would be invaluable. I know for damn sure if the end of the world comes, I'll have my laptop with me. A well organized document database on the laptop for surivivalism would probably be invaluable. Now all I need is a working outlet...
By the way, has anyone ever thought of a massive, online database of survival info?
Mudpuppy,
Darby's rhetoric seems to imply that there is in fact a connection between Haber and Oliver Williams. So here's a question, do any of the old schoolers around here remember how Haber was originally brought into all of this? i.e., was he a family lawyer first and became involved with the JTF later, or was he simply an attorney who could help Williams control the JTF copyright and trademarks? It would be interesting to know just how much, if any, interaction there was between these parties and John Titor's family. I think that connection is critical, as the JTF could potentially have NOTHING to do with John Titor. Any thoughts?

 

[Mudpuppy]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

Mudpuppy,
Darby's rhetoric seems to imply that there is in fact a connection between Haber and Oliver Williams. So here's a question, do any of the old schoolers around here remember how Haber was originally brought into all of this? i.e., was he a family lawyer first and became involved with the JTF later, or was he simply an attorney who could help Williams control the JTF copyright and trademarks? It would be interesting to know just how much, if any, interaction there was between these parties and John Titor's family. I think that connection is critical, as the JTF could potentially have NOTHING to do with John Titor. Any thoughts?[/b]

Hi Sinister,

Here is how Haber says he was brought into the whole thing. He graduated from Hofstra University in 1982. A "college friend" whom he went to law school with contacted him a few years ago and hired him to represent the family of John Titor. Larry says he wasn't aware of John Titor before he was hired by his college friend. Larry stated he hadn't heard from his friend for a long time and that he got a call a couple of years ago where his friend said he has something "interesting" for him to look at. His friend basically said that HE represented (his friend, not Larry) represented the family of a time traveler and said HE couldn't disclose who they were and couldn't tell Larry anymore about it but if Larry was interested, the family wanted to get "the story" out and do something with a book and merchandising, etc.... Larry said it was kind of crazy and there was nothing to it and so on..... His friend convinced him to take it on so for the last couple of years, that's what Larry has been doing. He basically works through his friend and he has NEVER met anyone in the family. The family send him stuff every once in a while through his friend. Larry was told when he was hired not to disclose anything or any information he gets so he can't tell anyone who the "friend" was that hired him but basically, Larry says he is a "conduit". Darby was correct in that Larry is quite well know in his profession. He has been an attorney for about 23 years, is self-employed, owns his own practise and also works for the Acme Strategy Corporation. He has worked for both Universal Studios and Walt Disney World and has a background in Corporate and Securities Law so that coupled with the Theme Park and Entertainment side of things, and being a personal friend of the person (someone he knew he could trust) who is representing the family, made him an ideal choice. I don't think the real question here is the connection between Oliver and Larry (unless Oliver turns out to be the "college friend") so much as who is the "friend" who represents the family. Who went to Hofstra University with Larry during that 1982 time frame and is also an attorney. That's the key to the whole puzzle.

Mud

 

[sinister]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div>

Hi Sinister,
?
Here is how Haber says he was brought into the whole thing. He graduated from Hofstra University in 1982. A \"college friend\" whom he went to law school with contacted him a few years ago and hired him to represent the family of John Titor. Larry says he wasn't aware of John Titor before he was hired by his college friend. Larry stated he hadn't heard from his friend for a long time and that he got a call a couple of years ago where his friend said he has something \"interesting\" for him to look at. His friend basically said that HE represented (his friend, not Larry) represented the family of a time traveler and said HE couldn't disclose who they were and couldn't tell Larry anymore about it but if Larry was interested, the family wanted to get \"the story\" out and do something with a book and merchandising, etc.... Larry said it was kind of crazy and there was nothing to it and so on..... His friend convinced him to take it on so for the last couple of years, that's what Larry has been doing. He basically works through his friend and he has NEVER met anyone in the family. The family send him stuff every once in a while through his friend. Larry was told when he was hired not to disclose anything or any information he gets so he can't tell anyone who the \"friend\" was that hired him but basically, Larry says he is a \"conduit\". Darby was correct in that Larry is quite well know in his profession. He has been an attorney for about 23 years, is self-employed, owns his own practise and also works for the Acme Strategy Corporation. He has worked for both Universal Studios and Walt Disney World and has a background in Corporate and Securities Law so that coupled with the Theme Park and Entertainment side of things, and being a personal friend of the person (someone he knew he could trust) who is representing the family, made him an ideal choice. I don't think the real question here is the connection between Oliver and Larry (unless Oliver turns out to be the \"college friend\") so much as who is the \"friend\" who represents the family. Who went to Hofstra University with Larry during that 1982 time frame and is also an attorney. That's the key to the whole puzzle.
?
Mud[/b]

Damn, you condensed that really well, I now understand perfectly. Also, this sort of focuses our investigative goals into one person, that "conduit". No sign of Oliver Williams on Hofstra's website, but neither is there anything on Haber, so I guess that doesn't prove much. I wonder, how many years does "a few" mean? I would assume that the "conduit" would be the person/s responsible (in whatever context that means) for John Titor, and/or himself, but then again who's to say someone like Williams didn't see this whole Titor story blowing up on the internet and decided to cash in on it. Do we know that Titor's family would even know if this was going on? He used a fake name, and the website wasn't set up for awhile, so there's no reason to believe they even know anything about the merchandising and even book. Damn, this just opens up more possibilities...

 

[Mudpuppy]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

Damn, you condensed that really well, I now understand perfectly. Also, this sort of focuses our investigative goals into one person, that \"conduit\". [/b]

Yes. Larry is calling himself the "conduit" or go-between for the "friend" who is representing the family and the family themselves.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

No sign of Oliver Williams on Hofstra's website, but neither is there anything on Haber, so I guess that doesn't prove much. [/b]

Well, I think the only thing you might find is Larry's name somewhere in the archives of graduates or if he was honored in any way while attending there might be something else on him. But I never bothered to check because I'm quite sure, judging from his reputation, that he is who he says he is and did, in fact graduate from there. As far as looking for the "friend", he only stated that they went to law school together. He didn't say what year his friend graduated....so you could be looking forward and backwards several years from 1982.....and then what exactly would you be looking for and what name? So, that's something to research....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

I wonder, how many years does \"a few\" mean? [/b]

Well, the book came out last year or the year before and so he was probably contacted two or three years ago when they began thinking about putting a book together.....2002 or 2003 I would guess.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

but then again who's to say someone like Williams didn't see this whole Titor story blowing up on the internet and decided to cash in on it. [/b]

Well, Oliver is pretty smart. I would hypothosize that when he first came in contact with JT's story, that he was fascinated enough to start JohnTitor.com. For some reason, he was compelled, like many of us are, to get the Titor story out. He might have had a great interest in the internet and also in quantum physics or time travel. He never misses a beat on Art Bell's show when asked physics questions and that could be due to reading up so much since discovering the story (like many of us have tried to do) or he was already well versed in physics. Either way, the book and merchandising didn't start right away. As anyone knows, who has ever tried to create their own website, it isn't free. It isn't absorbantly expensive either, but you have to have a few bucks at least to create the webpage, host the site, ect..... He may have very well thought that selling a few shirts or mugs on the site would help pay for those costs. And who wouldn't want to quit their day job if they could get an internet business off the ground and be their own boss...not to mention doing something you have an avid interest in. The problem I have is that all that seems so legit to me....I don't understand why everyone tries to illegitimize the JT story just because someone wants to make a few bucks off of it. Making money off a story doesn't discredit it. It only adds another factor into whether to consider it valid or not....but it certainly doesn't disqualify it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

Do we know that Titor's family would even know if this was going on? He used a fake name, and the website wasn't set up for awhile, so there's no reason to believe they even know anything about the merchandising and even book. Damn, this just opens up more possibilities...[/b]

Well, the way it looks to me, since Titor is not the real name, and Larry is only a "conduit" between an unnamed and unknown person and a "family", there really isn't anyway to answer your question. Unless someone on this board, or another board, has had contact with the family, you just have to assume that maybe they exist and maybe they don't. Just like John....maybe he was real,.....maybe he wasn't. The posts were certainly real.....and someone who felt he was real created a website for him.....and someone else hired an attorney to help sell a book and merchandise......that's really all the "real" evidence there is. So it's just a matter of what you want to believe. But the bottom line is, is the messenger more important than the message? And what was the message afterall? Everyone draws their own conclusions to what the message was because each unique individual hears what they want to hear and blurs what they aren't subconsciously ready to handle. That's why I think there is so much bantering back and forth between the believers and the debunkers. The believers were already survivalist at heart and JT just brought it to the surface. The debunkers do not live in that world and don't want to......so to make the story a "hoax" allows everyone to continue living in the world they want....and I guess the same can be said for the survivalists. JT validates their feelings and gives more credence to their belief system. So what really was the message behind the messenger? Gloom and doom.......or rather, there is a better day dawning....but first, you must go through a test of fire........and here are the rules.....it's alot to ponder.

 

[sinister]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Yes that's true, I happen to believe in the strength of the message John Titor was trying to send. The way I've come to see the global consciousness work, the greater the power and number of people it reaches, the more the idea will spread. This world needs to change.
On another note, Santa Cruz just got a little of the tsunami warnings earlier tonight, and even in a town at little risk, with no real "tsunami" headed for us, there was panic. My friend was at work in a grocery store and noted that several customers were rushing to buy supplies and "head into the hills", because of all this. The warning was cancelled pretty quickly, but I think it outlines just how freaked out people are, and how ever-present natural disasters (especially of the earthquake/tsunami variety) are becoming in our media and basic perspective. I'm almost stunned by how closely things are following to Titor's story. I've been trying to think in the perspective of what a kid would be worried about right now, so I've been focusing on the big, general topics/worries we see brought up in the news. Lately, natural disasters, thanks to the massive one in Indonesia, have become a huge threat, be it real or imagined, and people are freaked out.