The Time Traveler Test

[Peregrini]

...or creating "tests" for any potential time travelers as well I see.
So let me ask you: if you do not believe time travel into the past is or ever will be possible, what use is the test then?
Are you saying you are willing to change your pronouncement?

Peregrini said:
Please remember, this is a suggestion, not a requirement chiseled in stone. If an alleged time traveler doesn't want to take this test, that won't automatically refute their assertion. There are plenty of other ways to do that.

But useless for your purposes? And this was the original reason for the other thread: what evidence would be enough for someone to accept that TT is real?

I also said:
If anyone were to pass this test I would, pretty much, believe anything else they told me.
That means, if someone answered the equation correctly I would necessarily have to re-examine my "belief" that TT is not possible. Since, as of this time, there is no testable repeatable evidence that JT, or anyone else for that matter, did TT, I have no reason to re-examine my beliefs just yet. Just because "you" say it's so, doesn't make it so.

Perhaps you might answer a question for me. Do you believe a man can hold his breath for 1 day, underwater, with no additional supply of oxygen? I'm going to step ahead here and go out on a limb and answer "No" for you. Do you then believe you could invent a test for someone claiming they could, to attempt to prove it?

I wonder how many scientists believed breaking the sound barrier would kill the pilot?

173... Just a guess...even earlier people didn't think a man could survive a speeds above 25 mph.

How many scientists "agreed" on man-caused global warming?

OH OH, I know this one... According to Al Gore...all of them.

Science is not built on consensus, Mr. Peregrini.

No, it isn't.

Finding one, two or several dissenting opinions on a given problem set does not automatically invalidate the opposing theory.

No, it doesn't.
That is why experiments are devised to attempt to falsify a theory. Scientists conduct experiments in an attempt to replicate the results that led to a theory. If they are unable to replicate the earlier results, the theory is either discounted and rejected, or placed on the back burner for further study when more information is discovered. Can you say FTL Neutrino?
It is unfortunate that today's scientific community has changed from the past.
It used to be;
Observation...devise a hypothesis to explain the observation... test the hypothesis by experiments designed to falsify the hypothesis...after many tests the hypothesis graduates to a theory...After many years of testing with no falsifying results a Law is discovered.
Now, all too often, it's;
Speculate...put your speculation forward as a new theory and challenge others to accept it.
Your link, Scientists find first evidence that many universes exist, is an example of how the scientific method is supposed to be carried out. Something you have absolutely no understanding of. Did you actually "read" it? What you have used to support your statement of fact

But, evidence does exist that points to multiverse, only one of which is presented here.

is an idea by a group of scientists, based on observations, who stated, "The researchers emphasize that more work is needed to confirm this claim,"

I wonder, what evidence are you using to support your belief that time travel to the past is not possible?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics. Maybe you can notice this one has the word "Law" in it. Not theory like your evidence does.

tr said:
Glad to see Mr. Peregrini has reappeared.
Judging by his statements, it appears Mr. Peregrini is an expert on things he does not believe exist.

I would recommend you consider modifying your view and recognizing that the event happened before Einstein ever conducted his experiment.

Peregrin said:
I'm not sure what "event" you are talking about here. The shoe experiment?

tr said:
that is correct

I invite you to, please, enlighten me with the reasoning in your following statement;

I would recommend you consider modifying your view and recognizing that the event happened before Einstein ever conducted his experiment.

I would really like to have it explained to me.

Ps. I wonder if you can see the further implications of the discoveries discussed in your link. I noticed it immediately.

 

[PamelaM]

Mr. Peregrini,
How would it change you if one was to convince you they were a real
Timetraveler? Is this something you would even want?

 

[PamelaM]

Mr. Peregrini,
How would it change you if one was to convince you they were a real
Timetraveler? Is this something you would even want?

 

[Einstein]

Peregrini

You exercised Freedom of Choice by "making a choice".
Why do you think you took a different path into the future? Maybe that was the one you were supposed to take?

Oh I know it was an alternate path. It's not the first time I've done something like that. I did it as an experiment to see if there were any minor observational details that might be present in the alternate timepath. I have a real good detail memory of my surroundings. So I tend to notice things like a new picture on the wall, different color of paint on my car, or are the teeth on my door key in the up or down position when I go to unlock my door. There is a word that I notice that keeps yo yo-ing back and forth in it's spelling. That word is "really" or "realy" all depending on which time path I happen to be on. How do I get on a different time path? Choose a different set of daily routines. Not all those alternate time paths are identical. Some will have extra buildings, some will have fixed objects in different locations. Exactly like things going on in the TV show called Sliders. But you don't need a timer. What I think is happening is that your brain switches your conciousness with an alternate version of you each time you make a decision.

You know there is an alternate version of you that is left handed, or visa versa. Would you like to switch places with him for a day? It would be a high divergance time path. Everything might be different. Just put the hand that you normally use in your pocket. Keep it there all day long. Eventually you'll start to get comfortable using the other hand. Look around you. Anything different? You can tell me all about it if you make it back.

We'll call this the right-left hand switch experiment. But if you would like to research the topic of alternate time lines first before you go, you could ask Pamela about the scary details she experienced in the Email experiment.

 

[Einstein]

temporal recon

Einstein,

I did my test with a gray running shoe on my left foot and a white tennis shoe on my right foot. That is something I would never do. It was a choice to see if I could take a different path into the future. By your line of reasoning I should not have been able to do that. Freedom of choice for your actions would not exist if there was just one timeline. So even if you don't concede the existence of alternate timeline, the facts dictate otherwise.​

This is not necessarily true, but you DO bring up an interesting aspect of divergence and mission planning for time travelers.
Let me ask you, did you really undertake this experiment?
If you did, and it wasn't simply a thought experiment, did your decision to wear mismatching shoes result in anything? If your action did not result in anything of note (getting hit by a car, meeting the woman of your dreams, getting hired as some avant garde fashion consultant), then your choice did not significantly affect your world line or result in a new world line with a very large divergence. Simply stated, in a large-scale sense, it just didn't matter. (no offense).


I can appreciate your thought that this would create a new world line (and it did, it just didn't result in a large divergence). The reality is, world lines are created at the point of choice regardless of which choice you make. Interestingly, there are an infinite number of world lines with sufficiently tight divergences where your other yous exactly mirrored your choice because they had to who also wore mismatched shoes. Of course, let's leave alone the thought that it was YOU mirroring the action of another you, just as you must...Honestly, they are all you anyway.

I don't believe a new world line is created each time a choice is made. They already exist. We merely just translate between them when we make a choice. And yes I did do the shoe experiment. Did anything odd happen? Yes. Not during the walk. It was when I got back home. I went to go take off the shoes, and something always seemed to be distracting me. I did notice that the mismatched shoes seemed to be more comfortable. It wound up being two hours later before I finally took them off. It's almost as if when I had them mismatched, I preferred them to be that way.

 

[Peregrini]

PamelaM

Mr. Peregrini,
How would it change you if one was to convince you they were a real
Timetraveler?

Well, I might not be arguing with tr anymore. No,...I probably still would.
It would not change me, but it would change my understanding of "what" time is.

Is this something you would even want?

Absolutely.

Einstein;
It is apparent "we" have a very different opinion of "what" an alternate time line is.
I believe it involves going back, before an event takes place, and altering the event toward a different outcome.
You say it is something as simple as "changing your daily routine" or using a "different hand". That might be TMI.o_0

 

[Peregrini]

But if you would like to research the topic of alternate time lines first before you go, you could ask Pamela about the scary details she experienced in the Email experiment.

If PamelaM desires to share her experence here I would gladly read it, with an open mind.

 

[PamelaM]

But if you would like to research the topic of alternate time lines first before you go, you could ask Pamela about the scary details she experienced in the Email experiment.

If PamelaM desires to share her experence here I would gladly read it, with an open mind.

It's not something I choose to openly post about anymore.

 

[Ren]

Pamela. Nice double horizon you've got there.
Ren's Home Page

 

[temporal recon]

I wonder, what evidence are you using to support your belief that time travel to the past is not possible?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics. Maybe you can notice this one has the word "Law" in it. Not theory like your evidence does.

How does this preclude distortion of gravity and traversing world lines? (given that MWI is correct, of course,

I invite you to, please, enlighten me with the reasoning in your following statement;

I would recommend you consider modifying your view and recognizing that the event happened before Einstein ever conducted his experiment.

I would really like to have it explained to me.

By all means, that is the point of this whole exercise.
With the understanding that MWI is correct, time travel is a byproduct of the ability to distort gravity and, by extension traverse world lines. I believe Titor was fairly explicit in this regard and I won't bother going over old ground.

Nonetheless, 12 years ago when John was explaining this part of the technology he commented on the idea that separate world lines may end at different times and are staggered. If we take a simplistic view of the array with world lines of different "lengths," one could activate his machine, separate from his worldline and not move "up or down" his worldline and simply hop to the next worldline and end up in a different time simply by virtue of the staggering effect of WL's.

The point of this is to say that there really is no reason to agonize what's "going to happen" since, world lines exist in their complete state, regardless of your "temporal position" on them, the event you're agonizing over has "already" happened on your neighboring WL and is likely to happen on yours as well (given a low div). Not sure if I was clear in my explanation.

To be completely honest, with this understanding of the multiverse, I have learned to not get so caught up in the current events of the day and wondering and worrying about the future. Why?​

​

Because it's already happened.​

​

This understanding has been very personally liberating. Of course, all things in moderation: I wouldn't allow this to make you an observer to your own life. Knowledge of time travel has been ruinous to some. There really is wisdom in denying one's curiosity about their own future.

As always,
Kind Regards
TR