The Time Traveler Test

We were not talking about "distortion of gravity" nor "traversing world lines". We were talking about "time travel to the past".

I was asking for the reasoning for this claim specifically;

Please explain how the event...wearing different shoes...occured before he wore different shoes. That is what you stated.

John was not a time traveler he was a gravity distorter. ;-)

I thought sure that I had this topic up before in a different section?
It shows the thinking and science papers going on as of lately.

Quantum Steering into the Past

In New Quantum Experiment, Effect Happens Before Cause | Popular Science

Quantum decision affects results of measurements taken earlier in time | Ars Technica

http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v8/n6/full/nphys2294.html

Quantum Steering into the Past


So I havn't kept track of everything that has come out, but everything is still alright with the second law of thermodynamics, and anything else that seems to be established but can always change with quantum physics or quantum computers and optical physics in which a proton can ride on a beam of electrons out of a laser which also has just happened.

check PhyOrg magazine once in a while

Phys.Org - Science News, Technology, Physics, Nanotechnology, Space Science, Earth Science, Medicine

Peregrini

I'm not familiar with what you mean by TMI. But let me explain in a little more detail what I'm trying to get you to see. You see, the alternate timelines that you refer to are the same as what I refer to. Let's take a closer look at the left-right hand experiment. At some point in your early life you made the choice to use either your left or right hand. From that point forward there existed both divergent paths through time. This is exactly like going back and making a change in the past. From that point forward your brain focuses in on the choice you made and keeps you on the path that you chose. So the two time lines exist, but it's your brain that is keeping you in the time line you are presently on. My experiment is merely just designed to trick your brain into re-choosing the other path. It does work. When I discovered this, I was then convinced other time lines exist. Now I admit this experiment does have some risk involved. For instance suppose you do succeed in tricking your brain into thinking that you are the other you that uses the other hand? When that happens, you will be in the alternate timeline, other universe, another dimension, or whatever else you want to call it. But your surroundings may be radically different. The people you know might not be the same. Those you do know might treat you differently. You might decide you don't like it there. To get back home just start using your other hand. That is if you have the other hand in the other timeline. Like I said, there is some risk involved.

The reason I know about this is because I have a very good detail memory. But I was always a little disturbed when things would happen that apparently just didn't seem to be possible. Have you ever been out driving and noticed that there appears to be a building in what you thought was an empty field? I go to put my house key in the door lock and discover it wont go in because now the key teeth have to be oriented in the downward position instead of upward. So I came up with a theory that led to these kinds of experiments.

Lol! I couldn't help but laugh when I read Einstein's post. "I'm not familiar what you mean by TMI
but let me explain in a little more detail...."

Your so cute in your own way Einstein.

Oops, my bad. I should have checked first....

I see. This is a good example of arguing a point of view without the latest information at your disposal. In Conviction of a Time Traveler, I make the quite specific point that time travel was not the true power of the machine; it was the distortion of gravity that was its true purpose.

Time Travel was a side effect of the machine's true purpose

This is a key point to understand. Without this understanding, your pursuit of truth in regards to the Titor story (and time travel in general) won't make much real headway.

More to your point above, before we can begin truly dissecting the Titor story and its implications, we must know where to begin. Titor appearing here in 2000 (or 1998 for that matter) in not the correct place to start. We must first correctly define the machine itself (since obviously the machine predated Titor's involvement with it).

A simple and pedestrian way to get a small understanding about this would be to look at the Titor posts themselves. Did you ever notice that he always put the words "time travel" in quotes, as in "time travel?" Didn't you find that odd?

There is much more here, my friend. First, you must know where to begin.

The reason Einstein's experiment "already happened" before he conducted it is because it did; on the world line "right next door," so to speak. Remember, world lines are staggered, events on parallel world lines are not perfectly "aligned."

I thought that was one of the things we didn't know in what the conditions for a new line require and, how big/small a event has to me. If you want to go into specifics you could put your shoes in on one world then, trip over the laces and, get hit by a car as a result of putting your shoes on however in another line you didn't and, never died. However which event if any would have cause a line shift the tripping , putting the shoes on or getting hit by the car. The obvious answer is getting hit by the car but, why couldn't it be something smaller?

If you say it like that wouldn't it be more correct in assuming his "time travel" would be more like "dimensional traveling" If the line changes then, he isn't actually going "back" in time but, rather going to another line or "dimension / universe" that is further back then, the one he left from.

That would also explain why divergence is need to scale the difference between the line he was at and, the one he left from.

kurisu

Let me give you an idea of a change in time lines that happened to me today. I picked something minor in my daily routines to change just to see what kind of effect if any I could observe. I decided to put my money in my right front pocket and my change with keys in my left front pocket. The opposite of what I normally do. Also I decided to wear my watch on my right wrist instead of left wrist. So this morning I noticed my car needed to be washed. I decided to go down to the car wash and take care of it. I get to the car wash and notice some obvious differences that weren't like that the last time I visited. I notice the walls of the car wash stalls are painted with a pink band at the bottom, a blue band in the middle and a yellow band on top. That wasn't like that the last time I was there. It use to be just a solid blue color. So I take a close look at the pink and yellow bands. To see if there were signs of age or is it just newly painted. Definitely signs of age, very dirty and sections where the painted was chipping off. Like it has been that way for quite some time. The next item I noticed was that the labeling on the wash selector was different. Used to be rinse, wax, and foam brush. The wax position was missing and there was a soap selection instead. Nothing appeared as if it was new and just recently installed. I've been going to this car wash for years. All of these little details are pretty much memorized. Yet the changes appear to have been like that for a very long time. This is very similar to John Titor's email experiment. Apparently he knew about this, and used his email experiment as a method to get the participants involved into another timeline. And it worked. But it was a very convincing tactic to sell his story.

The difference here though Einstein was we were not expecting changes.
Where you were actually looking for them. Not expecting anything created
A lot of fear when things started happening ..some to a very large degree.
One guy shared with me he was fearful he might go home and his wife wouldn't
Be there for him anymore. Most demanded to know what the hell was going on.
No one expected anything . John never mentioned anything happening to us just
That it would affect our other selves knowing info from the future. Damn now I'm talking
About it again. All I will say was it was very bizzare, scary. And I wouldn't want to go
Through it again. I had no answers for these people and john was gone.
When one guy mentioned his experience was like "the triangle" movie by dean devlin.
I rented it and watched it with an open mouth. He was right. It was changes close to that
Schedule. I actually refuse to watch that movie again. I just can't do it and am trying to block
It from my memory . It would have been easier if someone would have told us that changes
Are going to take place and don't be afraid everything will be ok. The fear came with not knowing
To what extent it was going to go. Not knowing what was going on. There was panic.
That's all I will say.

hmmm then I guess it's good that no one did something that changed the fate of their current living situation could have ended up like that guy feared and, could have resulted in a loss of anything.

Also could you link me to the movies wikia page theres a couple movies like the triangle or triangle and, I'm not sure which your referring to

The Triangle (TV series 2005) - IMDb



Sorry that's all I could find really fast. Maybe someone else can look further
It's by bryan singer and dean devlin. I rented it in a video store .

Any changes made to a world line would not be perceivable by anyone residing on that world line except by the "time traveler" himself. To the perspective of those upline from the point of change, they would only ever consider their history, as they know it, was only as it ever was and perceiving no changes whatsoever. This is because they have nothing to compare it to (i.e. the "original" world line). Which brings us back to a previous question I posed to the forums for discussion:

How then, can mission planners gauge the success of a mission if they perceive no changes?

For those who are interested, there is a little gem answering this question in the 2000/2001 posts.

As an example: While you may speculate on changes to our own worldline, we cannot perceive what the "original state" of our world line ever was before any changes were made (no matter whenever in time they were made, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2005, 2001,1998, 1984 or 1975.).
One interesting question related to this is: how can we remember our history from before John's arrival if our world line didn't exist until he got here? I don't have an answer to this question, but it is an interesting question, no?

PamelaM, Thank you for posting this.

The best way I could think of answering this. Is that a single line exists as the root line and, when a time traveler or w.e interrupts the line then, a branch is created that go off from the original line. Our origin is the same and, the origin headed in the direction the universe wanted it to however when the line branches off events are "new" and, the universe no longer knows what goes on in that line.

As say universe I suppose it could be God or whatever has control over the world lol.

In a general sense, I am averse to equating dimensions to world lines, but I take your meaning and your point. So, yes, it would be more accurate to describe Titor and the others as "world line hoppers."

Doesn't have quite the same cache though, wouldn't you agree?

THIS IS AN EXCEPTIONAL INSIGHT

If the universes do not interact, how does one universe communicate with the others so as their events match up (low divergence).


This question may be a bit larger than we are willing to accept.

temporal recon

I always have thought that with each choice we make, a zigzag pattern is formed through time. So not only is divergence taking place, but also convergence. So depending on our choices from yesterday, you might not be the exact same person today that corresponds with me, but tomorrow you might be.