The Time Traveler Test

[Peregrini]

Peregrini said:

tr said:
I wonder, what evidence are you using to support your belief that time travel to the past is not possible?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics. Maybe you can notice this one has the word "Law" in it. Not theory like your evidence does.

How does this preclude distortion of gravity and traversing world lines? (given that MWI is correct, of course,

We were not talking about "distortion of gravity" nor "traversing world lines". We were talking about "time travel to the past".

I was asking for the reasoning for this claim specifically;

tr said:
I would recommend you consider modifying your view and recognizing that the event happened before Einstein ever conducted his experiment.

Please explain how the event...wearing different shoes...occured before he wore different shoes. That is what you stated.

 

[PamelaM]

John was not a time traveler he was a gravity distorter. ;-)

 

[TimeNot_0]

I thought sure that I had this topic up before in a different section?
It shows the thinking and science papers going on as of lately.

Quantum Steering into the Past

In New Quantum Experiment, Effect Happens Before Cause | Popular Science

Quantum decision affects results of measurements taken earlier in time | Ars Technica

http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v8/n6/full/nphys2294.html

Quantum Steering into the Past


So I havn't kept track of everything that has come out, but everything is still alright with the second law of thermodynamics, and anything else that seems to be established but can always change with quantum physics or quantum computers and optical physics in which a proton can ride on a beam of electrons out of a laser which also has just happened.

check PhyOrg magazine once in a while

Phys.Org - Science News, Technology, Physics, Nanotechnology, Space Science, Earth Science, Medicine

 

[Einstein]

Peregrini

Einstein;
It is apparent "we" have a very different opinion of "what" an alternate time line is.
I believe it involves going back, before an event takes place, and altering the event toward a different outcome.
You say it is something as simple as "changing your daily routine" or using a "different hand". That might be TMI.o_0

I'm not familiar with what you mean by TMI. But let me explain in a little more detail what I'm trying to get you to see. You see, the alternate timelines that you refer to are the same as what I refer to. Let's take a closer look at the left-right hand experiment. At some point in your early life you made the choice to use either your left or right hand. From that point forward there existed both divergent paths through time. This is exactly like going back and making a change in the past. From that point forward your brain focuses in on the choice you made and keeps you on the path that you chose. So the two time lines exist, but it's your brain that is keeping you in the time line you are presently on. My experiment is merely just designed to trick your brain into re-choosing the other path. It does work. When I discovered this, I was then convinced other time lines exist. Now I admit this experiment does have some risk involved. For instance suppose you do succeed in tricking your brain into thinking that you are the other you that uses the other hand? When that happens, you will be in the alternate timeline, other universe, another dimension, or whatever else you want to call it. But your surroundings may be radically different. The people you know might not be the same. Those you do know might treat you differently. You might decide you don't like it there. To get back home just start using your other hand. That is if you have the other hand in the other timeline. Like I said, there is some risk involved.

The reason I know about this is because I have a very good detail memory. But I was always a little disturbed when things would happen that apparently just didn't seem to be possible. Have you ever been out driving and noticed that there appears to be a building in what you thought was an empty field? I go to put my house key in the door lock and discover it wont go in because now the key teeth have to be oriented in the downward position instead of upward. So I came up with a theory that led to these kinds of experiments.

 

[PamelaM]

Lol! I couldn't help but laugh when I read Einstein's post. "I'm not familiar what you mean by TMI
but let me explain in a little more detail...."

 

[PamelaM]

Your so cute in your own way Einstein.

 

[Einstein]

Lol! I couldn't help but laugh when I read Einstein's post. "I'm not familiar what you mean by TMI
but let me explain in a little more detail...."

Oops, my bad. I should have checked first....

 

[temporal recon]

Peregrini said:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics. Maybe you can notice this one has the word "Law" in it. Not theory like your evidence does.

How does this preclude distortion of gravity and traversing world lines? (given that MWI is correct, of course,

We were not talking about "distortion of gravity" nor "traversing world lines". We were talking about "time travel to the past".

I was asking for the reasoning for this claim specifically;

tr said:
I would recommend you consider modifying your view and recognizing that the event happened before Einstein ever conducted his experiment.

Please explain how the event...wearing different shoes...occured before he wore different shoes. That is what you stated.

I see. This is a good example of arguing a point of view without the latest information at your disposal. In Conviction of a Time Traveler, I make the quite specific point that time travel was not the true power of the machine; it was the distortion of gravity that was its true purpose.

Time Travel was a side effect of the machine's true purpose​

​

This is a key point to understand. Without this understanding, your pursuit of truth in regards to the Titor story (and time travel in general) won't make much real headway.​

​

More to your point above, before we can begin truly dissecting the Titor story and its implications, we must know where to begin. Titor appearing here in 2000 (or 1998 for that matter) in not the correct place to start. We must first correctly define the machine itself (since obviously the machine predated Titor's involvement with it).​

A simple and pedestrian way to get a small understanding about this would be to look at the Titor posts themselves. Did you ever notice that he always put the words "time travel" in quotes, as in "time travel?" Didn't you find that odd?​

​

There is much more here, my friend. First, you must know where to begin.​

​

The reason Einstein's experiment "already happened" before he conducted it is because it did; on the world line "right next door," so to speak. Remember, world lines are staggered, events on parallel world lines are not perfectly "aligned."​

​

 

[kurisu]

Switching your shoes does not create a new timeline. Going "back" in time and changing an event that had already occurred would be an example of a new timeline. You go out wearing 2 black shoes... then go "back" and do it wearing 2 brown shoes... that would be a new timeline. Going "forward" to see the result of an event and then going "back" and engaging in the event is not a new timeline.
But, most importantly, I do not concede the existence of alternate timelines. There is no scientific evidence that they exist. There is no experiment to test for their existence. This "one timeline" in which we exist is evident. Everything that occurs, occurs in this timeline and once it has occurred, there is no undoing it. There is no reset button in life. There are no respawn sites. Alternate timelines, and the belief that everything that can happen will happen, is nothing more than an attempt at avoiding the moral consequences of the decisions we make in life. Like-it-or-not, you will have to answer for your decisions. Try this defense in court: "Yes Your Honor, the victim is dead in this timeline but, in an infinite number of other timelines, he is alive and well".

I thought that was one of the things we didn't know in what the conditions for a new line require and, how big/small a event has to me. If you want to go into specifics you could put your shoes in on one world then, trip over the laces and, get hit by a car as a result of putting your shoes on however in another line you didn't and, never died. However which event if any would have cause a line shift the tripping , putting the shoes on or getting hit by the car. The obvious answer is getting hit by the car but, why couldn't it be something smaller?

 

[kurisu]

How does this preclude distortion of gravity and traversing world lines? (given that MWI is correct, of course,

We were not talking about "distortion of gravity" nor "traversing world lines". We were talking about "time travel to the past".

I was asking for the reasoning for this claim specifically;

tr said:
I would recommend you consider modifying your view and recognizing that the event happened before Einstein ever conducted his experiment.

Please explain how the event...wearing different shoes...occured before he wore different shoes. That is what you stated.

I see. This is a good example of arguing a point of view without the latest information at your disposal. In Conviction of a Time Traveler, I make the quite specific point that time travel was not the true power of the machine; it was the distortion of gravity that was its true purpose.

Time Travel was a side effect of the machine's true purpose​

​

This is a key point to understand. Without this understanding, your pursuit of truth in regards to the Titor story (and time travel in general) won't make much real headway.​

​

More to your point above, before we can begin truly dissecting the Titor story and its implications, we must know where to begin. Titor appearing here in 2000 (or 1998 for that matter) in not the correct place to start. We must first correctly define the machine itself (since obviously the machine predated Titor's involvement with it).​

A simple and pedestrian way to get a small understanding about this would be to look at the Titor posts themselves. Did you ever notice that he always put the words "time travel" in quotes, as in "time travel?" Didn't you find that odd?​

​

There is much more here, my friend. First, you must know where to begin.​

​

The reason Einstein's experiment "already happened" before he conducted it is because it did; on the world line "right next door," so to speak. Remember, world lines are staggered, events on parallel world lines are not perfectly "aligned."​

​

If you say it like that wouldn't it be more correct in assuming his "time travel" would be more like "dimensional traveling" If the line changes then, he isn't actually going "back" in time but, rather going to another line or "dimension / universe" that is further back then, the one he left from.

That would also explain why divergence is need to scale the difference between the line he was at and, the one he left from.