ACLU is anti-Christian
- Thread starter Unintentional
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ACLU is anti-Christian
The ACLU has some faults, I'll admit. No person or organization is perfect. But the ACLU IMO is not anti-Christian. It's anti the mixing of church and state. I'm all for that. The ACLU is one of the few voices protesting against the current suspension/deletin of civil rights and liberties that are supposed to be guaranteed by our Constitution. I'd rather support them now on their bigger agendas, than quibble about some goddess nobody seems to know anything about.
Cary
The ACLU has some faults, I'll admit. No person or organization is perfect. But the ACLU IMO is not anti-Christian. It's anti the mixing of church and state. I'm all for that. The ACLU is one of the few voices protesting against the current suspension/deletin of civil rights and liberties that are supposed to be guaranteed by our Constitution. I'd rather support them now on their bigger agendas, than quibble about some goddess nobody seems to know anything about.
Cary
Unintentional
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ACLU is anti-Christian
Still, whose rights or freedoms were going to be violated by having a cross on the Seal of the County of Los Angeles? Why would the ACLU on their website say swastikas are okay, but then threaten a county board for having a tiny cross on their seal and make no mention of the humongous depiction of a pagan Goddess? The only thing consistent about the ACLU is that it is not okay to display any Christian images.
Now a counter argument might be, well they don't like the government displaying these Christian images. To that I would say, what about all the Nativity Scenes they filed suit against? These were set up by private citizens on public land exactly like they said a swastika should be displayed, but swastika okay, nativity scene not. :blink:
I am still POed about them changing terrorists to militant, whoever they are! :angry:
Time Travel Forum
Still, whose rights or freedoms were going to be violated by having a cross on the Seal of the County of Los Angeles? Why would the ACLU on their website say swastikas are okay, but then threaten a county board for having a tiny cross on their seal and make no mention of the humongous depiction of a pagan Goddess? The only thing consistent about the ACLU is that it is not okay to display any Christian images.
Now a counter argument might be, well they don't like the government displaying these Christian images. To that I would say, what about all the Nativity Scenes they filed suit against? These were set up by private citizens on public land exactly like they said a swastika should be displayed, but swastika okay, nativity scene not. :blink:
I am still POed about them changing terrorists to militant, whoever they are! :angry:
Time Travel Forum
ACLU is anti-Christian
Unintentional, I think you are right on target. The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof"......
Now, does that say "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" or doesn't it? (Funny how that part is seldom quoted) Or doesn't free mean free? Free to me means wherever, whenever I want! Free is FREE! In the Capitol building, in school, in a carwash, wherever!
I think if you do a good study of the origins of the ACLU you'll come up with some logical (although twisted) reasons why the ACLU has always had an anti-Christian (NOT anti-religion) bias and always will have.
Of course, you can have "American" or "National" as part of any name....there you get into the next phrase "or abridging the freedom of speech".
And, for the most part, the whole point is moot in this country anyway. Even when CONGRESS makes no law prohibiting religion, the good old Supreme Court does! They are the REAL culprit in all this, because a court is NOT supposed to make law, but interpret it!
Nine people hold this country captive in their own political ideals, and neither Congress nor the President or the will of the people have any influence whatsoever over them, because they are appointed for life! They don't have to please ANYBODY!
Just my .02 worth
Klyla
Unintentional, I think you are right on target. The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof"......
Now, does that say "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" or doesn't it? (Funny how that part is seldom quoted) Or doesn't free mean free? Free to me means wherever, whenever I want! Free is FREE! In the Capitol building, in school, in a carwash, wherever!
I think if you do a good study of the origins of the ACLU you'll come up with some logical (although twisted) reasons why the ACLU has always had an anti-Christian (NOT anti-religion) bias and always will have.
Of course, you can have "American" or "National" as part of any name....there you get into the next phrase "or abridging the freedom of speech".
And, for the most part, the whole point is moot in this country anyway. Even when CONGRESS makes no law prohibiting religion, the good old Supreme Court does! They are the REAL culprit in all this, because a court is NOT supposed to make law, but interpret it!
Nine people hold this country captive in their own political ideals, and neither Congress nor the President or the will of the people have any influence whatsoever over them, because they are appointed for life! They don't have to please ANYBODY!
Just my .02 worth
Klyla
ACLU is anti-Christian
Newer smaller churches are probably being built to replace larger older structures that cost too much to maintain for a small parish. Church membership is dwindling fast. Most of the members are inactive and uninvolved, strapping the church with a lot of financial problems. Christianity is not as popular as a small majority of people would have us believe.
Newer smaller churches are probably being built to replace larger older structures that cost too much to maintain for a small parish. Church membership is dwindling fast. Most of the members are inactive and uninvolved, strapping the church with a lot of financial problems. Christianity is not as popular as a small majority of people would have us believe.
Unintentional
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ACLU is anti-Christian
I go to a small church where we often meet in people's homes. Isn't that how it was orginally supposed to be?
I go to a small church where we often meet in people's homes. Isn't that how it was orginally supposed to be?
ACLU is anti-Christian
Not prior to the reformation when christianity was entirely catholic and they had massive cathedrals. Since everything had to be done in latin and most people were illiterate they probably did not meet in small groups. The protestants later on worshipped as you do Im sure.
Not prior to the reformation when christianity was entirely catholic and they had massive cathedrals. Since everything had to be done in latin and most people were illiterate they probably did not meet in small groups. The protestants later on worshipped as you do Im sure.
Judge Bean
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ACLU is anti-Christian
The problem is that the Constitution prohibits the sponsorship of any religion-- it's "establishment," by means of promotion, support, or sharing of power-- and so the legal issues have centered on those instances in which government officials and government institutions (and those who receive public money) have made use of religious symbolism in such a way as to give the perception of such support. The most recent notorious example was the monument to the Ten Commandments at the court house-- which document is, by the way, particularly suitable to stone, but is not Christian.
You can parade around in swastikas and otherwise make a fool of yourself if you are not a government official or it is not government action. You can have goddesses on the seals (Minerva is on the State seal of California because she represents Commerce, Mining, and Agriculture, as well as War) because no one would ever seriously connect it to a religious practice, and thus there is no government action to support a religion of Pomona or Minerva, or of the floating eye above the pyramid on the dollar bill.
Pomona is a city in L.A., where they have the County Fair. The County Fair is not a religious event, even though it's held in the goddess' namesake city-- no more than the Athens Olympics will be a religious festival to which the U.S. government cannot send its athletes (even though it's named for Athena). On the other hand, if the government made Christian faith a requirement for being able to vote... well, you see the distinctions, I'm sure.
As for the ACLU, they represent no one. They are not a political group. In theory, they would "attack" any use of religious imagery by the government, but they are not going to go after ridiculous old icons and slogans that no one even notices anymore. Most Americans-- and I mean almost all Americans-- believe in God, and so no one is going to complain about the assertion of faith on the currency "In God We Trust." Who else are you going to trust?
The sticky part comes in when the government assumes that that "God" does not include Allah, Jehovah, and the Widening Blind Spot At the Center of the Universe to which all creation Appends. Go down to the diamond district and ask the merchants if this is a "Christian Nation," as our leaders now say; come over here to Kerman and ask the Punjabi usedcar dealers if it is. Go across the street to the mosque.
Originally posted by Unintentional@Jun 27 2004, 09:01 PM
http://archive.aclu.org/library/pbp16.html
That is from ACLU own website. They have no problem with swastikas or burning crosses displayed or worn in a public place. But since the cross in a public place is not promoting hate speech, according to them it's got to go! They also say on their website that the answer to hate speech is more speech and speech should never ever be censured, but again that clearly doesn't include Christianity speech.
Time Travel Forum
The problem is that the Constitution prohibits the sponsorship of any religion-- it's "establishment," by means of promotion, support, or sharing of power-- and so the legal issues have centered on those instances in which government officials and government institutions (and those who receive public money) have made use of religious symbolism in such a way as to give the perception of such support. The most recent notorious example was the monument to the Ten Commandments at the court house-- which document is, by the way, particularly suitable to stone, but is not Christian.
You can parade around in swastikas and otherwise make a fool of yourself if you are not a government official or it is not government action. You can have goddesses on the seals (Minerva is on the State seal of California because she represents Commerce, Mining, and Agriculture, as well as War) because no one would ever seriously connect it to a religious practice, and thus there is no government action to support a religion of Pomona or Minerva, or of the floating eye above the pyramid on the dollar bill.
Pomona is a city in L.A., where they have the County Fair. The County Fair is not a religious event, even though it's held in the goddess' namesake city-- no more than the Athens Olympics will be a religious festival to which the U.S. government cannot send its athletes (even though it's named for Athena). On the other hand, if the government made Christian faith a requirement for being able to vote... well, you see the distinctions, I'm sure.
As for the ACLU, they represent no one. They are not a political group. In theory, they would "attack" any use of religious imagery by the government, but they are not going to go after ridiculous old icons and slogans that no one even notices anymore. Most Americans-- and I mean almost all Americans-- believe in God, and so no one is going to complain about the assertion of faith on the currency "In God We Trust." Who else are you going to trust?
The sticky part comes in when the government assumes that that "God" does not include Allah, Jehovah, and the Widening Blind Spot At the Center of the Universe to which all creation Appends. Go down to the diamond district and ask the merchants if this is a "Christian Nation," as our leaders now say; come over here to Kerman and ask the Punjabi usedcar dealers if it is. Go across the street to the mosque.
sosuemetoo
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ACLU is anti-Christian
Well, I'll jump in here.
The NOW, to me, is the National Organization for I don't know what kind of women...because they do not support many of my views and it offends me at times that they jump up and say that they represent women. They support Gay Marriage, Abortion, and the Family Leave Act. Marriage is between a man and a woman, abortion is murder, and the Family Leave Act hurts small business. This is just my opinion and I do not expect anyone here to share it.
The ACLU is an organization that seems to have nothing to do with Civil Rights any longer. Take for instance a recent case that occurred in Chicago a few weeks ago. A homeless man was sitting in the library looking at pornography on the computer and "pleasuring" himself. There were preteens on the computer next to him that reported the incident. The police came and asked for a log of what the man was looking at, hopefully to find if there was personal information on there that would lead to the apprehension of this man. The library refused, and the ACLU jumped in saying that the man had a right to privacy in a library!!
Further, the ACLU has been backing a children's right to look at porn on a library computer. Yes, the library does not apply filters on computers because it is the civil right of everyone (including 5 year olds) to look at things that are not age appropriate.
Well, I'll jump in here.
The NOW, to me, is the National Organization for I don't know what kind of women...because they do not support many of my views and it offends me at times that they jump up and say that they represent women. They support Gay Marriage, Abortion, and the Family Leave Act. Marriage is between a man and a woman, abortion is murder, and the Family Leave Act hurts small business. This is just my opinion and I do not expect anyone here to share it.
The ACLU is an organization that seems to have nothing to do with Civil Rights any longer. Take for instance a recent case that occurred in Chicago a few weeks ago. A homeless man was sitting in the library looking at pornography on the computer and "pleasuring" himself. There were preteens on the computer next to him that reported the incident. The police came and asked for a log of what the man was looking at, hopefully to find if there was personal information on there that would lead to the apprehension of this man. The library refused, and the ACLU jumped in saying that the man had a right to privacy in a library!!
Further, the ACLU has been backing a children's right to look at porn on a library computer. Yes, the library does not apply filters on computers because it is the civil right of everyone (including 5 year olds) to look at things that are not age appropriate.