Britain starts their own Patriot Act

[Grayson]

Britain starts their own Patriot Act

Originally posted by CaryP+Nov 23 2004, 06:56 PM--><div class='quotemain'>

The IRA (Irish Republican Army) was fighting for Democracy, their Democratic right to self-rule and this is where any Terrorism argument that comes out of the USA falls down. The USA supported them and then condemns OBL and his mufties, who are fighting for freedom from Western financial and Military oppression... or have I misunderstood their intent?

I am simply puzzled by this splitting of hairs in US Foreign Policy.

The U.S. govt. (CIA) did support OBL as a "freedom fighter" when he and his boys were taking it to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Saddam got military, financial and technical assistance from the U.S. govt. when he was fighting "those crazy muslims" in Iran. Hell, there's pictures of Rumsfeld shaking the man's hand and being all buddy/buddy with him. So now, these two dogs get off their leash, and they're terrorists. What's different now compared to when they were "speical friends" of the U.S. govt.? Not much. Yeah, go ahead and talk about 9/11. It was less than a month ago that OBL even alluded to the 9/11 event. He spoke about why it happened, but to my recollection, did not say he ordered it, or was responsible for it in a direct way. (Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't claim to have a photographic memory of the text of his video tape announcement, and the video tape is suspect anyway.)

Being puzzled aboout U.S. foreign policy could be a whole new religion Grayson. I'm pretty damned confused by it myself. A lot of mystical and mythical crap rolled up into that.

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist depends on the standards applied to the assessment. So when did OBL and Saddam go from being "freedom fighter" and "ally" to "terrorist" and "evil dictator"? At the most convenient time for the PTB is my take.

Cary

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LMTO Cary. I didn't want to precipitate a war here by going into the whole OBL legend and his former relationship with the US Treasury, Military, NSA and CIA. So, I was quite pleased when a fine Southern rebel raised this rather thorny little pear for us to nibble on.

Your last paragraph is in essence my argument here. At what point do the useful Assets become Terrorists and will US Foreign Policy always be written by the Cat in the Hat?

'Oh no Bin Laden, oh no I say. No hand in the Treasury will you have this day'

'Thing one and Thing two were friends of mine, but not no more, not this time'

'Our Policy is set by men who are wise, and like blind men, they have no eyes'

Anyone who wants to flog this Cat in the Hat parody to death can feel free.

<!--QuoteBegin-Timmy G@Nov 23 2004, 07:16 PM
I have to say that I really agree with what I read here.

It is my belief that as an individual, organized group or nation - you have the right to a) defend yourself; and B) state your dislikes about whatever it may concern & within acceptable means try to change it.

This does not mean killing thousands of innocents, which I'm sure we also can all agree upon. It is truly funny that regime X was once our friend - and even today they still fight for the same things they fought for when we were buds, but somehow - magically they are now the enemy. I believe it simply boils down to wants & needs for the present - or as Grayson so well put it - the splitting of hairs.

Do I agree with or support it? Nope... to me, everything in life should be black and white or, simply stated... right & wrong. There shouldn't be partiality, which as it so happens, is as common as sunshine.

I'm just a man trapped on the outside looking in - wondering how the hell his miniscule li'l voice, which chimes along with thousands of others, is going to be heard on the inside by those who make it so.

Chances are, it's not...

The IRA (Irish Republican Army) was fighting for Democracy, their Democratic right to self-rule and this is where any Terrorism argument that comes out of the USA falls down.

Does this give the IRA the right to bomb coffee houses and kill civilians at will? (and I'm not quoting that they did these things, but these are the things I consider terrorism) OR, are they trying through other channels to be heard? Perhaps violence IS THE ONLY WAY - but for some reason, I find that hard to believe.

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No, it never gives anyone the right to punish the innocent for any wrongs that their Government may visit upon any other Nation, or people.

 

[CaryP]

Britain starts their own Patriot Act

Hey there all of my British friends. Looks like the national ID card system is back for you. Sorry to hear about it. We barely dodged the national ID card bullet when the House voted the 9/11 Comm. recommendation bill. Of course, W's boys will try to get it pushed through later, and will probably succeed one the Republican Congress is installed in late January. Of course, it's going to take a few years to install, but the NWO types are patient to an extent. They've been planning this for a LONG time.

Here's the link.

Citing Terror Issues, Britain Plans ID Cards

Of course it's all about protecting the citizens from "terrorists". Booga, booga. "It's for your own good." Yeah right.

Cary

Here's the text of the relatively short article.

Citing Terror Issues, Britain Plans ID Cards
By ALAN COWELL

Published: November 24, 2004

LONDON, Nov. 23 - Invoking a global threat of terrorism, the British government announced plans on Tuesday to introduce national identity cards for the first time since the World War II era. An opposition legislator said the government wanted to create a \"climate of fear\" in advance of elections expected next year.

The proposal was in a list of 37 draft laws outlined by Queen Elizabeth II on behalf of the government at the ceremonial opening of Parliament. While the queen summarizes proposed legislation, the list is drawn up by government ministers.

The most contentious law was the plan to introduce a national identity card in 2008, a measure the government asserts is needed to fight terrorism and organized crime. The queen said Britons \"live in a time of global uncertainty with an increased threat from international terrorism and organized crime.\"

Speaking later, Prime Minister Tony Blair said, \"With terrorism, illegal immigration and organized crime operating with so much greater sophistication, identity cards in my judgment are long overdue.\"

But opposition Conservatives and Liberal Democrats assailed the plan as an effort to raise levels of fear in Britain in the hope of winning votes in elections that could be held next May.

The government announced other security-related moves on Tuesday, including proposals for new counterterrorism legislation and for a new police unit akin to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Britain ceased issuing national identity documents to its citizens 52 years ago.

Identity cards are commonplace in many parts of Continental Europe. But in Britain, opponents argue that their use will infringe on civil rights because they will be accompanied by a national database. The cards are expected to include names, addresses and so-called biometrics, like computerized fingerprint records.

Outside Parliament on Tuesday, protesters accused the government of mounting what one demonstrator, Mark Littlewood, called \"an enormous threat to privacy and liberty.\" They brandished a rubber stamp in the form of a supermarket bar code, saying the government's plans for a database were \"the moral equivalent of bar-coding the entire population.\"

Previously announced plans called for the introduction of identity cards around 2008, when Britons applying for a new passport would be required to obtain an identity card at the same time. The government wants to make the cards compulsory at a later date.

 

[Grayson]

Britain starts their own Patriot Act

Which ties in with this little gem that has been rattling around in the background for a while. We are to have our own version of the FBI here in the UK, called the Serious Organised Crime Agency. This has just been announced by Herr Blair as a part of hiw war on Terror and Organised Crime.

UK FBI

And the full article, short as it is.

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Wednesday 24 November, 2004

Government to create own FBI

By Katherine Baldwin

LONDON (Reuters) - Tony Blair has unveiled plans to create the country's equivalent to the FBI, kicking off an anti-crime push the prime minister hopes will secure him a third term in office at an election expected next year.

The formation of the Serious Organised Crime Agency, which will target drug smuggling and people trafficking, is the centrepiece of a crime bill put before parliament one day after Blair unveiled his plans for a new legislative session.

It is one of a small number of bills expected to be passed before parliament is dissolved ahead of an expected May vote.

The bill's early introduction shows Blair's determination to ensure law and order is at the top of the electoral agenda.

\"Organised crime affects each and every one of us. It reaches down through every community, destroying lives through drugs, people smuggling and prostitution,\" Home Secretary David Blunkett said in a statement on Wednesday.

Critics accuse Blair of creating a \"climate of fear\" for political gain -- a similar charge levelled by Democrats against U.S. President George W. Bush before his re-election.

The bill seeks new powers for police and prosecutors, allowing them to compel suspects to give evidence in some cases. It calls for reduced sentences for offenders who assist in investigations or testify against accomplices.

The government also proposed new laws to stop increasingly militant animal rights campaigners from harassing scientists involved in medical experiments.

Measures include strengthening police powers to direct protesters away from people's homes and making harassment outside homes into a criminal offence.

Police will get new powers to clear demonstrators out of Parliament Square, in front of the Houses of Parliament, when they are deemed to be obstructing parliamentary business or \"spoiling the visual aspect or otherwise spoiling enjoyment by members of the public,\" the bill said.

It also proposes a ban on incitement to religious hatred.

The fight against crime -- from street yobbery to terrorism -- formed the backbone of Blair's legislative plans that are tantamount to a draft election manifesto.

The government has rejected the charge that it is playing politics with fear and terror, saying the measures respond to the public's concerns.

But government minister Peter Hain acknowledged the legislative programme was designed to \"crowd out any space\" for the Conservative Party on law and order -- the Conservatives' traditional terrain.

He further angered his opponents on Wednesday when he said he believed Britons would be safer under the Labour Party.

Political Bollocks!