China-Taiwan Situation

[Darkwolf]

China-Taiwan Situation

If this had anything to do with a war between cultures, Iran would have been next in line after Afghanistan. Iran, the radical fundamentalist theocracy that once kidnapped an entire American embassy and held the occupants hostage-- for how long again? Was that terrorism? Iran, the newest member of the nuclear bomb club-- a \"weapon of mass destruction\" in the hands of a regime on the record as officially hating us.

You do notice that we now have troops on both sides of Iran. That is probably the real reason that we invaded Iraq. That country is probably the most vile den of of radicals on the face of the earth, it is well defended, and will fight. and if we want this to end, we are going to have to go in there. We now have three points of entry (sea, Iraq, Afganastan) instead of being forced into an amphibious assult as we would have been if we hadn't gone into the other two countries.

The current conflict is the creation of the corporate and criminal powers now ruling the world, and did not spontaneously arise out of the hatred of one people for another. The bitterness and resentment of some fundamentalist Moslems for the West is rooted in the unfairness of the division of wealth and property in the Middle East, which they perceive as being the result of Western greed and disrespect.

Not so much paul. The Arab world is not exactly poor, and they owe us for their wealth. Not only do we buy their oil, but we found it, built the drilling faculities, their support facuilities. At least in Saudi Arabia they showed their gratitude by nationalizing them without compensating the western companies. There was "Corporate criminal" activity there, but not from our side.
There is poverty there, but that is not for lack of western money it is due to their own elite class keeping it for themselves. The resentment they feel for us is due to the propaganda put out by that very elite which controlls their education and media faculities.
The problem that their religious leaders have stated they have with us. (among themselves not when they are playing for sympathy from us) is simply that we do not live in a muslim way. We make our own laws, (rather than following the ones in the Koran) we elect our own officials, we expose ourselves to varrying ideas, engage in "sin", our women show their faces, and we don't have a clerical class in charge of things. HOW DARE WE. They not only find it unacceptable in their own cultures, but they find this behavior unacceptable in any culture in the world that God promised them.

Why is the American military presence in Saudi Arabia compared among Arabs to the Israeli occupation of Palestine?

Why do American liberals rail about our right wing propaganda while swallowing somone else's right wing propaganda hook line and sinker?

Does the oil pipeline through Afghanistan have anything to do with the narcotics industry?

My guess would be that it has more to do with a much more profitable commodity, oil.

MOD EDIT: Quote tags.

Remember the first QUOTE exists in [ ] and the second [/] with a forward slash before the word QUOTE.

 

[Mai]

China-Taiwan Situation

I can't remember who it was, but someone mentioned the option of wrapping Muslim bodies in pig's skin. This has been tried by the IDF several years ago. Their mullahs simply issued a fatwa that says that the pig skin can do no harm if a person becomes a shahid or fights for the shahada.

Hurting their ideology is a good way to weaken them, but it is very difficult to do. Reality is that they want us all dead. No matter what started it, we now have several millions of Muslims who believe we must all convert to Islam or die, and that they must bring Islam to the West in any way possible. There is nothing to do but defend ourselves. After all this is over, I'm sure no one would mind if we sit around and debate over who started the whole thing and whether it's our fault or not, but right now we have to protect ourselves.

 

[Darkwolf]

China-Taiwan Situation

After all this is over, I'm sure no one would mind if we sit around and debate over who started the whole thing and whether it's our fault or not, but right now we have to protect ourselves.

Mai, you have a talent for putting exactly what needs to be said into the simpelest words possible. If its as bad as you say, (and I agree with you) What should we do? It seems that we might only have one option in the end, and that is one which I don't even want to consider, and the rest of America probably would submit to them rather than thinking about. On the other hand, that may just be what they have in mind for us. I just hope we don't realize too late that it really was kill or be killed.

I'd like to know what you think on this. Why in nearly four years haven't they hit us again?

 

[Judge Bean]

China-Taiwan Situation

Originally posted by Mai@Jan 4 2005, 09:18 AM
I can't remember who it was, but someone mentioned the option of wrapping Muslim bodies in pig's skin. This has been tried by the IDF several years ago. Their mullahs simply issued a fatwa that says that the pig skin can do no harm if a person becomes a shahid or fights for the shahada.

Hurting their ideology is a good way to weaken them, but it is very difficult to do. Reality is that they want us all dead. No matter what started it, we now have several millions of Muslims who believe we must all convert to Islam or die, and that they must bring Islam to the West in any way possible. There is nothing to do but defend ourselves. After all this is over, I'm sure no one would mind if we sit around and debate over who started the whole thing and whether it's our fault or not, but right now we have to protect ourselves.

​

No wonder that we cannot eradicate war.

You people terrify me. You act out history, apparently unconsciously.

Go find someone who can remember how the Japanese were characterized and demonized in the 1940s. Compare what he or she says with what you say and believe about a eighth of the world's population.

I hope that eventually you come to understand that the evil in the world doesn't confine itself to your current enemies. I would hope that this thread is closed now as an embarrassing example of racist propaganda.

 

[StarLord]

China-Taiwan Situation

The Japanese just wanted to dominate. They had no ulterior motives for converting who they beat towards any religion. What's really sad is the way WE treated american citizens of Japanese heritage during the war.

I don't think this has anything to do with racist propaganda. I see it as a matter of fact kind of opinion.

Hell, if it really made any difference and could win this quicker, I would take over all their TV signals and show nothing but Texan, Lousiana style & St. Louis BBQ commercials & I'd be all for loading up our B52's with pig blood, little piggy feet, Savings coupons from Pigly Wigly and the largest take out order of Mu Shu Pork this earth ever saw and dump it over there. Question is, would it work?

The bottom line is what's really wrong is the fact that religious intolerance, which works both ways and Greed have gotten out of hand.

The Spanish Inquisition way of insuring your congregation is something I am sure the church would love to forget.

 

[Mai]

China-Taiwan Situation

Paul,

I would like to clarify what I meant in my previous post. I was referring to radical activists who engage in terrorist activities. Belive it or not, but they are supported by many, many Muslims out there. These Muslims may be uninformed or uneducated or too indoctrinated already-- the reason doesn't really matter. These radicals have made the terrorists' cause into the cause of the entire Ummah. That's what I was referring to.

My personal opinion in the matter of Islam is that it has a lot of growing up to yet. Christianity and Judaism were also pretty radical, and often dangerous, in their early days. But as the population became more educated and religion became a private rather than public matter, civilization progressed and radicalism became a thing of the past. Christianity and Judaism have already reached a mature stage in which they can survive very well without the xenophobia and an urge to convert the world. Islam is not there yet.

So, no, I don't think we should lock them up in internment camps or anything like that. Just that we should protect ourselves until they catch up with the rest of the world. I am sorry you perceived my opinion as "racist propaganda". I can only assure you that it has been formed after a long time of research and study, and is not based on racial prejudice.

 

[Mai]

China-Taiwan Situation

Darkwolf,

I don't know why they haven't hit you again since 9/11. Hitting good targets (such as the US) adds to the prestige of terrorist organizations within the radical circles. Any radical organization will be thrilled to have a bombing within the US on its resume.

My opinion is that your government is taking many un-published actions to protect you, and it seems to be working. It could also be that due to the situation in Iraq, terrorist money and personnel are now diverted there (but that would only explain a small reduction in the number/scope of attempts to hurt the US, wouldn't it?). I believe there have been many attempts to commit other acts of terrorism within the US that have thwarted, and that your government does not wish to make it public knowledge for whatever reason.

As for what we should do... the only option I noticed so far that does not involve wars is education. Getting through to them and showing them that they can practice their religion minus the hatred toward infidels and the violence. The problem with this solution is that it is often conducted through the net and that it is usually countered by the meddling of the local Muslim community, who ostracizes those it identifies as "not Muslim enough". It takes a lot of courage to oppose some of the teaching the local Imam states are 'true Islam'. The other problem with this solution is that it takes a very long time, and we don't have that much time.

I often wonder how all this will end. A war has been declared. Will we answer the call, and fight back, or will we stand aside? Is there any alternative?

All this definitely makes me wish time travel was a practical reality. I would love to travel to the future to see how all this ends up.

 

[Darkwolf]

China-Taiwan Situation

No wonder that we cannot eradicate war.

Paul,
You expect to eradicate war???? :blink: You dream my friend, you dream. That is such an unrealistic goal as to not even be worth considering. Not only that, but I'm not sure that the complete eradication of war is even desirable.

Mai is not being racist, he is being realistic. Due to the actions and teachings of their leaders, an alarming number of that eighth of the world's population you are so quick to defend wants you dead. Not only do they want you dead, many of them are eager to die in order to kill you. This is a threat that will be on the order of Naziism if they ever really get their stuff together. That probably won't happen tomorrow, but if we don't do something about it now, they will eventually get it together. Then we will have a war that makes any one before it look like a playground shoving match. Being overly "culturally senstiive" now will doom your children to having to choose between war with a power that has no problem using any weapon in it's arsonel, and submission.

 

[Grayson]

China-Taiwan Situation

Guys: we appear to be getting a bit derisery and narrow minded in places here and I would hate to close this Topic if it turns into a hate-fest.

We all have points of view, they are all valid in a way, but if I were a Muslim I would be deeply offended by some of the comments contained in the narrative here. So, can we try and keep it a bit more dispassionate and less offensive as we procede.

I know offensive may be a strong word, but that's how some of you are coming across. As Moderators we do seek to maintain balance in all of the threads and this one is in danger of going way off kilter, hence my interjection... so reign it in a tad please.

Before it turns into a debate, I ain't taking sides, nor listening to any arguments for why the debate is proceeding as it is. I have said my piece and in all fairness I am only asking to resepct the Muslim Board members that may view this thread.

+What I don't want to see again is any posts that seek to portray Muslims as our (Christian/Western) mortal enemies.

+I don't want to see any posts that suggest we should concoct our own (Christian/Western) Final Solution and unleash a Pogrom against Muslim People's.

+I don't want to any posts that intentionally seek to humiliate the Muslim faith, nor its People's.

+I don't want to see any Muslim-Baiting posts.

This is a place for reasoned debate not a charnal house for Religious hatred.

The Iron-Hand in this velvet glove are 30% warnings which will be administered without fear nor favour.

Happy New Year.

 

[Grayson]

China-Taiwan Situation

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Jan 5 2005, 05:37 AM

No wonder that we cannot eradicate war.

Paul,
You expect to eradicate war???? :blink: You dream my friend, you dream. That is such an unrealistic goal as to not even be worth considering. Not only that, but I'm not sure that the complete eradication of war is even desirable.

Mai is not being racist, he is being realistic. Due to the actions and teachings of their leaders, an alarming number of that eighth of the world's population you are so quick to defend wants you dead. Not only do they want you dead, many of them are eager to die in order to kill you. This is a threat that will be on the order of Naziism if they ever really get their stuff together. That probably won't happen tomorrow, but if we don't do something about it now, they will eventually get it together. Then we will have a war that makes any one before it look like a playground shoving match. Being overly "culturally senstiive" now will doom your children to having to choose between war with a power that has no problem using any weapon in it's arsonel, and submission.

​

Let's just get something stright here Darkwolf. Americans kill more Americans than any other Nation on Earth. They personally own 1.7 weapons per head of population without including all the Military arsenals. So, maybe you should look at those statistics before jumping to conclusions about the minority of individuals from outside the West that allegedly want you, me, everybody dead.

America's own Security services concur that they are only dealing with a handful Radical individuals in the War on terror.

Tens of Millions of Muslim's live in the West. Harmoniously going about their lives and paying their taxes in whatever Nation they call home.

Muslim Soldiers stand with us in each of our Armies.

Muslim Pilots operate in our Air Forces..

Muslim Engineers and Technicians help keep it all in order to defend their new Western Homelands.

You stand more chance of being killed by a bus, than ever you would of dying at the hands of these Agents of Terror that have got you running so scared. So, keep it in perspective, you're a smart cookie and you know I am right here.

Play nice.