Congressional backing grows for Gun Control debate

Samstwitch

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Congressional backing grows for Gun Control debate

WASHINGTON (AP) — Congressional gun rights supporters showed an increased willingness Tuesday to consider new legislation to control firearms in the aftermath of the Connecticut school shootings — provided it also addresses mental health issues and the impact of violent video games.

A former co-chairman of the Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus, Democratic Rep. Mike Thompson, D-Calif., and 10-term House Republican Jack Kingston — a Georgia lawmaker elected with strong National Rifle Association backing — were the latest to join the call to consider gun control as part of a comprehensive, anti-violence effort next year.

"Put guns on the table, also put video games on the table, put mental health on the table," Kingston said.

But he added that nothing should be done immediately, saying, "There is a time for mourning and a time to sort it out. I look forward to sorting it out and getting past the grief stage."

With the nation's nerves still raw over the murders of 20 elementary school children and six teachers, White House, spokesman Jay Carney said President Barack Obama was "actively supportive" of a plan by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., to introduce legislation to reinstate an assault weapons ban. While Obama has long supported a ban, he exerted little effort to get it passed during his first term.

Meanwhile, the National Rifle Association, silent since the shootings, said in a statement that it "is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again." There was no indication what that might entail. The group, the best-known defender of gun rights in America, scheduled a news conference for Friday.

On Capitol Hill, Feinstein is likely to become chairman next year of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which may get the first crack at considering firearms legislation.

Carney said the president also would support legislation that closes a gun show "loophole," which allows people to buy guns from private dealers without a background check. And he says Obama would be "interested in looking at" legislation to restrict high capacity ammunition clips.

The spokesman said Obama was heartened by growing support on Capitol Hill for a national discussion on gun violence, particularly from seemingly unlikely lawmakers. The president spoke on the phone Tuesday with West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, a conservative Democrat and avid hunter, who said after the Connecticut shootings that "everything should be on the table" in those discussions.

Carney sidestepped questions about whether Obama regrets not having taken stronger gun control during his first term, but he said the president does think more needs to be done.

"We as a nation — and he, as a member and leader of the nation — need to do more," he said.

Late Wednesday, the National Rifle Association, the most potent pro-gun group and one that keeps score of lawmakers' votes, explained its silence until now.

"The National Rifle Association of America is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters - and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown," the NRA statement said.

"Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common decency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting."

Among members of Congress, Thompson, the former Sportsmen's Caucus co-chairman, was named to lead a Democratic task force on gun violence. He's a hunter, a wounded Vietnam veteran and a conservative Democrat.

"The only experience I've had with assault weapons was the one that I was trained with when I was in the Army," he said. "I know that this is not a war on guns. Gun owners and hunters across this country have every right to own legitimate guns for legitimate purposes and ... we are not going to take law-abiding citizens 'guns away from them."

On Monday, NRA member Manchin, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa — senior Republican on the Judiciary Committee — said it's time for a debate that would include gun control. Reid previously had taken pro-gun positions for years.

Not all Republicans were willing to go as far as Grassley or Kingston, but they didn't rule out tackling gun control.

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell told reporters, "The entire Congress is united in condemning the violence in Newtown and on the need to enforce our laws. As we continue to learn the facts, Congress will examine whether there is an appropriate and constitutional response that would better protect our citizens."

McConnell added that Reid controls the Senate schedule.

At a regular House Republican closed-door meeting Tuesday Rep. Tim Murphy of Pennsylvania, a psychologist, led a discussion on mental illness — which he described as the primary cause of mass shootings.

Murphy said he told colleagues that mental illness was the common link in similar tragic incidents and "we have to stop pretending it doesn't exist. We need to understand what it is that triggers changes in someone."

"I see it as the center of the issue. Get mental illness out of the shadows."
 

Samstwitch

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Will Obama use executive action on guns?

Proponents of stricter gun control measures are pressuring President Barack Obama to sidestep Congress and act now to tighten the nation's controls on firearms.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, one of the nation's leading proponents of stricter gun control, held a press conference on Monday, flanked by victims of gun violence and their families, to urge Obama to act.

"There are steps that the president can take on his own, right now, to address gun violence," Bloomberg said on Monday.

It's true that Obama, no longer worried about re-election, could take some action on guns without Congress, including pushing for more oversight of sellers and more thorough background checks for buyers. Obama hinted in a Sunday night prayer vigil with mourners in Newtown, Conn., that inaction will not be an option.

"I'll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because what choice do we have?" he said.

In fact, after the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, Obama ordered the Justice Department to examine how the FBI's background check system, which is used in most gun sales to ensure felons or mentally ill people are not buying weapons, has more up-to-date information. Since then, the Justice Department has slightly beefed up the database by automatically adding federal crime information instead of waiting for prosecutors to manually input it.

But there are still huge holes in the database, including crucial information from other federal and state agencies about whether someone is mentally ill. After the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting, Congress called on these other agencies, including the Social Security Administration, to share this information. (The Virginia Tech shooter had been declared mentally ill by a state judge, but that information wasn't in the FBI database.) So far that hasn't happened, according to a New York Times report. (In the Newtown case, it's unclear whether a better FBI database would have helped, because the weapons used were reportedly registered to the shooter's mother.)

Bloomberg said Monday that with a "stroke of his pen," Obama could compel other agencies to share this information, bolstering the background checks that most gun buyers go through before obtaining weapons.

More...But Adam Winkler, a law professor at UCLA and an expert on gun laws, said it's unclear how much Obama can do about the database executively. Most likely, he said, the president has the power to compel states to give more information to the database and make the FBI more proactively gather data from some sources, but there could be privacy concerns and potential lawsuits that would freeze up action.

There's also the fact that about 40 percent of gun sales do not include a background check because of a massive loophole that lets private sellers dodge the background check requirement. Gun control advocates have been lobbying Congress for years to close this loophole.

"For any reform to be meaningful it means Congress has to sign on," Winkler says.

David Kopel, an adjunct law professor at at New York University and research director at the conservative think tank the Independence Institute, said Obama so far has not been as executively "aggressive" as President Bill Clinton was on gun control, but that he wouldn't be surprised if the president begins to pursue more executive action on the subject now.

In his first term, Obama required gun sellers in the four border states to report to the federal government if individuals buy more than one semi-automatic rifle in a short amount of time. Kopel says the president may try to expand that requirement to all 50 states, which would be sure to raise complaints that he was instituting a de-facto national gun registry.

Kopel also said Obama could try to classify certain guns as "destructive devices," a legal term for some weapons that are highly restricted by federal law. So, for example, Obama could administratively reclassify the AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle similar to the one used in the Newtown shooting, as a destructive device. Kopel thinks this would be a legally dubious move, however, which would most likely be challenged in the courts.

Past presidents, including George H.W. Bush and Clinton, have also placed strict barriers on imports of certain types of weapons, which have relaxed over the past 10 years. Obama could reinstate these import bans.

But most of the reforms coveted by Bloomberg and other gun control advocates—bans on certain rifles and pistols that automatically reload and high-capacity magazines that carry more than 10 bullets—would almost certainly have to go through Congress.

"I'm skeptical that much more can be done thorugh the administrative route," said Bob Cottrol, a professor of law at George Washington University.

And even if Congress signs on to these reforms, a 2008 landmark Supreme Court decision could end up being a roadblock. In the District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court ruled that lawmakers cannot ban an entire class of gun (in this case, handguns) that people commonly use for self defense. Kopel thinks this means any categorical ban (like one on assault weapons) will be suspect, because many of those weapons are very popular. (The AR-15 weapon is one of the most popular in the country.)

But Winkler contends that even if the weapons are popular, that they're used for hunting or to shoot at ranges for fun and not for self defense, such a ban would most likely pass constitutional muster. "These high-powered semi-automatic rifles are not self-defense weapons," Winkler said.
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
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5,111
That's good news! Mental Health solutions are the key to the problem.

Boehner won’t commit to gun-control votes

Republican House Speaker John Boehner said on Thursday that he would take any recommendations from Vice President Joe Biden’s anti-gun violence commission “under advisement”—but stopped well short of committing to allow the House of Representatives to vote on gun-control measures.

When asked at a press conference if he would permit the House to vote on proposals from Biden’s commission, which began work on Thursday and is expected to unveil its advice in January, he said: “We’ll certainly take them into consideration. We join the president in mourning the victims of that horrible tragedy in Connecticut.” When asked again, he said they will take them under "advisement."

The speaker’s remarks were notable, in part, because President Barack Obama has already pushed Congress to vote quickly on a series of gun-control measures in 2013.

“A majority of Americans support banning the sale of military-style assault weapons," Obama said on Wednesday. "A majority of Americans support banning the sale of high-capacity ammunition clips. A majority of Americans support laws requiring background checks before all gun purchases, so that criminals can’t take advantage of legal loopholes to buy a gun from somebody who won’t take the responsibility of doing a background check at all."

Biden's commission is also expected to look at other ideas, such as increasing access to mental health care, and look at the place of violence in American popular culture. But, for now at least, Boehner's comments suggest that traditional gun-control proposals aren't going anywhere.
 

TnWatchdog

Senior Member
Messages
7,099
Gun control will be easy for the government as they have a nice big list of owners to use for their collection campaign...now if the can successfully remove these weapons only the government and bad guys will have guns, which makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Give us your guns or lock-up for you...see it coming? You are breaking the new gun safety law...come with us!
I was reading an article about a 25-car pile up in a snowstorm and copied these two comments...Interesting sentiment on this issue.

#1
Snow in the hands of the public should never be allowed. Just think of all the lives that could be saved. Lets ask Obama to set up a task force and spend $16 trillion to stop snow. Its our responsibility as citizens to keep the likes of this from ever happening to us again in the future.

#2
the horrendous loss of life, we must outlaw cars and trucks to put an end to this senseless tragedy that repeats it self constantly. Cars kill people, enough is enough
 

Opmmur

Time Travel Professor
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5,049
New American Gun Control

121221.gun.from.skeleton.comic.jpg

submitted by Michael Diedrich
 

TnWatchdog

Senior Member
Messages
7,099
I've always said...don't sign anything unless you read the fine print...then don't sign it anyway and don't put your name on lists. This article shows how easy it would be for governmental gun collection agencies to know who has the guns...at least the resistered guns simply by checking their list. Like this map, any of you that have registered guns would be represented as a marker on your local map, making collection easier. Only the bad guys and other unresistered gun owners would go undetected...making the world a lot safer for you and your family. lol

Google
Revenge After Gun Permit Publication

A week after the Newtown massacre, The Journal News published an interactive Google Map with the names and addresses of gun permit owners in select New York cities. The bold move has escalated into a transparency arms race, after a Connecticut lawyer posted the phone number and addresses of the Journal‘s staff, including a Google Maps satellite Image of the Publisher’s home. “I don’t know whether the Journal’s publisher Janet Hasson is a permit holder herself, but here’s how to find her to ask,” read Christopher Fountain’s blog post. The double irony here is that open data was heralded as a tool of enlightened civic dialog, and has been co-opted for fierce partisanship, bordering on public endangerment.
The Journal‘s original publication of the map sparked nationwide outrage and thousands of angry comments. Gun permit holding is public information in New York, and can be acquired through a mere request via the Freedom of Information Act. But, coming on the heals of the Newtown shooting, the publication had a clear provocative intent. “New York residents have the right to own guns with a permit and they also have a right to access public information,” said a defiant Hasson.
Given that Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle used in the School shooting was reportedly legally registered with the killer’s mother, the Google Map sparked a debate about whether gun owners should be labeled like other potential menaces to society, “The implications are mind-boggling,” said Marine Scott F. Williams to The Journal News, “It’s as if gun owners are sex offenders (and) to own a handgun risks exposure as if one is a sex offender. It’s, in my mind, crazy.”
Blogger Christopher Fountain took the debate into his own hands, publishing the personal information of The Journals‘ staff. “Hundreds of thousands of readers; Janet, you have a great Christmas Eve,” he wrote, after a popular political outlet, Instapundit, linked to his post.
Ironically, the promise of open data was supposed to lead to open-minded discussion. “If the broad light of day could be let in upon men’s actions, it would purify them as the sun disinfects,” reads the often-cited quote from Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, who stands a champion to modern-day nonprofits fighting for greater access to health, legislative, and administrative government data.
Open data advocates have struggled to get media attention for their utopian vision of automated government services. This latest use of open data via Google Maps, both to publish gun permit ownership and journalists’ geolocation data, seems to have hit the media sweet spot, as it plays into our debased partisan interests. It appears that transparency lends itself equally to being both a tool of democracy or a partisan weapon.
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
If Registered U.S. gun owners continue to be targeted, they will turn to buying unregistered guns. That's my official prediction!
 

TnWatchdog

Senior Member
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7,099
People are buying guns...stores are sold out as there is concern over gun control.

Semi-automatic rifles are sold out at gun stores
Click link for video

Semi-automatic rifles are sold out at gun stores - WSMV Channel 4

LEBANON, TN (WSMV) -
Since the Sandy Hook Connecticut school shooting, gun owners are concerned new laws may be enacted to ban semi-automatic weapons. That fear is translating into a run on semi-automatic weapons in Middle Tennessee and across the country
It's impossible to find a semi-automatic at any gun store. David Wilson the owner of Lebanon Gun Shop has only three on display in his store, but they are all spoken for.
"If I had a hundred of them, I could sell them all in one day," said Wilson.
With the call for more stringent gun control, gun owners are fearful semi-automatic rifles, also referred to as assault rifles, will be banned.
"The pending legislation in Washington is creating a demand by folks who normally would not have the interest. They are buying the semi-automatic rifles now, because people want what they can't have," said Wilson.
If you already own a semi-automatic rifle, the magazines and the bullets they hold are also sold out. In fact, ammunition in general is in short supply. Wilson pointed to empty shelves in his store that are usually stocked with ammunition
"I'm out of a lot of different caliber bullets. These shelves are empty," said Wilson.
Since Dec. 14, Wilson has seen an inventory of guns sell very quickly.
"I've sold at least 500 guns since Nov. 23, however most of those sales have taken place in the last three weeks. I have done more business these past few weeks than I have done in the past four months," said Wilson.
Copyright 2013 WSMV (Meredith Corporation). All rights reserved.
 

Opmmur

Time Travel Professor
Messages
5,049
Empty ammunition shelves in LA California also and empty Gun racks.

If you can found ammunition the prices are now 15% to 30% higher in the past three weeks.
Guns are now 25% to 100% higher in the LA areas.
 

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