If the Pope dies...
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sosuemetoo
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Re: If the Pope dies...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sosuemetoo\")</div>
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sosuemetoo\")</div>
Re: If the Pope dies...
Back off everyone that is decreeing against the Christians. This is fair warning, that I will not wane at any attempts against Christians during their period of grieving for the recently deceased John Paul II.
It is true, that I am very resistant against organized religions. Allow those to grieve for whom they feel is the most holy man. Allow them to grieve for the years, and attempts hes made at world peace. Allow them to grieve for the man that tried to restore peace across the land, regardless of foreign affairs.
The Pope was a very wise man, could be one of the best popes the world has seen. What the Church has done in the past, indeed has been wrong. But you most look past what they have done, and see that this man, has tried to preseve the world for as long as he could. He died; truly sad, but it is not a time to nit-pick at the Christians or what they believe, it is a low blow.
They are grieving, thats like me kicking you while you lost someone in you're family. Thats very bastardly, and quite frankly rude. This thread should be for the grievance of the pope, and all that he has done, not pick apart the Christian faith. If you want to do that, go find the Christian thread in the Religion forum.
And if you think that I'm a practioner of the Christian faith, you are sadly mistaken.
My heart goes out to all those that are grieving for the recently deceased Pope.
Back off everyone that is decreeing against the Christians. This is fair warning, that I will not wane at any attempts against Christians during their period of grieving for the recently deceased John Paul II.
It is true, that I am very resistant against organized religions. Allow those to grieve for whom they feel is the most holy man. Allow them to grieve for the years, and attempts hes made at world peace. Allow them to grieve for the man that tried to restore peace across the land, regardless of foreign affairs.
The Pope was a very wise man, could be one of the best popes the world has seen. What the Church has done in the past, indeed has been wrong. But you most look past what they have done, and see that this man, has tried to preseve the world for as long as he could. He died; truly sad, but it is not a time to nit-pick at the Christians or what they believe, it is a low blow.
They are grieving, thats like me kicking you while you lost someone in you're family. Thats very bastardly, and quite frankly rude. This thread should be for the grievance of the pope, and all that he has done, not pick apart the Christian faith. If you want to do that, go find the Christian thread in the Religion forum.
And if you think that I'm a practioner of the Christian faith, you are sadly mistaken.
My heart goes out to all those that are grieving for the recently deceased Pope.
Re: If the Pope dies...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"magicfriend\")</div>
Yes, Maxwell's Silver Hammer (bang, bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head - lyrics you probably remember) from the Abbey Road album, the last album recorded, but the penultimate release. What's the connection?
Cary
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"magicfriend\")</div>
Yes, Maxwell's Silver Hammer (bang, bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head - lyrics you probably remember) from the Abbey Road album, the last album recorded, but the penultimate release. What's the connection?
Cary
Re: If the Pope dies...
That's a great picture, Darkbreed. Thank you.
A word about the Pope: As we grieve this loss, remember that he has now run his race. He has completed his mission given to him by God. He has gone to be with the Lord to hear those words every true believer hopes to hear one day: "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joys of salvation." I think he is experiencing joy unspeakable and full of glory right at this moment. Rest in peace my friend.
That's a great picture, Darkbreed. Thank you.
A word about the Pope: As we grieve this loss, remember that he has now run his race. He has completed his mission given to him by God. He has gone to be with the Lord to hear those words every true believer hopes to hear one day: "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joys of salvation." I think he is experiencing joy unspeakable and full of glory right at this moment. Rest in peace my friend.
Re: If the Pope dies...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"darkbreed\")</div>
darkbreed,
If I agree with you, and ask you to tell me more, and then you prescribe some ways for me to save myself, well then *poof* a religion is born.
Now consider this: billions and billions of people, some of them greater than you and I, have lived and died on this planet--all the while subscribing to an organized religion.
Then if we had an opportunity to get them all together and say, "Why did you do it? Why were you a faithful member of a religion?", many of them would reply, "We wanted to get to God, and our religion was one of the ways to achieve this."
So the next time you run into a very religious person, and you are wise enough to look beyond the typical human traits, you will find someone seeking God.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"darkbreed\")</div>
darkbreed,
If I agree with you, and ask you to tell me more, and then you prescribe some ways for me to save myself, well then *poof* a religion is born.
Now consider this: billions and billions of people, some of them greater than you and I, have lived and died on this planet--all the while subscribing to an organized religion.
Then if we had an opportunity to get them all together and say, "Why did you do it? Why were you a faithful member of a religion?", many of them would reply, "We wanted to get to God, and our religion was one of the ways to achieve this."
So the next time you run into a very religious person, and you are wise enough to look beyond the typical human traits, you will find someone seeking God.
Re: If the Pope dies...
Religion or not, my point is to trust in personal experience and not theories and ideas.
I am spiritual, but I don't follow any religion of spesific belief system, I follow my own personal experiences. I would rather see the truth about existence myself, than believe in other peoples words about existence that has no proofs to back them up.
You say that many of them would reply, "We wanted to get to God, and our religion was one of the ways to achieve this."
Well yes that is what many of them think and believe, but did they really get any closer to God?
IF I should be part of a religion, it would have to be one that let you experience the spirituality, and see for yourself there is more than this pysical existence. Not just a religion that tell you if you follow various rules you may meet God when you die. You may go to heaven, or hell. And then once dead you can experience your spiritual being. Why not rather experience this before, right here and now, so you could get a deeper understanding of what awaits?
But there is no need for something to be called religions, what there is a need for is information and knowledge about life, existence and truth. Schools and such should focus more on spirituality as well as the other subjects they teach us from we are kids. I call it science, facts and personal experience.
But then again, this would give us free will, and less controle and power for the existing religions and their leaders.
Religion or not, my point is to trust in personal experience and not theories and ideas.
I am spiritual, but I don't follow any religion of spesific belief system, I follow my own personal experiences. I would rather see the truth about existence myself, than believe in other peoples words about existence that has no proofs to back them up.
You say that many of them would reply, "We wanted to get to God, and our religion was one of the ways to achieve this."
Well yes that is what many of them think and believe, but did they really get any closer to God?
IF I should be part of a religion, it would have to be one that let you experience the spirituality, and see for yourself there is more than this pysical existence. Not just a religion that tell you if you follow various rules you may meet God when you die. You may go to heaven, or hell. And then once dead you can experience your spiritual being. Why not rather experience this before, right here and now, so you could get a deeper understanding of what awaits?
But there is no need for something to be called religions, what there is a need for is information and knowledge about life, existence and truth. Schools and such should focus more on spirituality as well as the other subjects they teach us from we are kids. I call it science, facts and personal experience.
But then again, this would give us free will, and less controle and power for the existing religions and their leaders.
deepthought
Member
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- 166
Re: If the Pope dies...
I would hope that the Catholic Church would show the courage to enlighten the world of the secrets it guards so jealously in its vaults. If they are to continue to represent a sixth of the planet's population, and give spiritual guidance, they owe those people the truth.
If any religion is to give hope to it's followers, then it should not give false hope.
Too many people on this planet are governed and 'guided' by falsehoods, I believe this will be the downfall of mankind, unless we collectively wake up to what is really around us.
There is room for everyone's spirtuality, however the wish to follow it, but there is also room, and need, for truth.
I would hope that the Catholic Church would show the courage to enlighten the world of the secrets it guards so jealously in its vaults. If they are to continue to represent a sixth of the planet's population, and give spiritual guidance, they owe those people the truth.
If any religion is to give hope to it's followers, then it should not give false hope.
Too many people on this planet are governed and 'guided' by falsehoods, I believe this will be the downfall of mankind, unless we collectively wake up to what is really around us.
There is room for everyone's spirtuality, however the wish to follow it, but there is also room, and need, for truth.
Re: If the Pope dies...
darkbreed, you and I are from the same camp; we just have different modes of attack.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"darkbreed\")</div>
Personal experience is a wonderful thing and I need mine as much as you need yours. But take away theories and ideas, and I am no better than my dog. He is nothing but the sum of his experiences: that is food/that is not; that is hot/that is not; that behavior gets me punished/that gets me praise. We on the other hand are social creatures needing a balance of ideas and action, the abstract vs. the concrete. Man needs both.
Yes.
I am not a big fan of some of those rules either. But I understand them as being necessary. Even your "see for yourself" religion would require rules. How do I start to see for myself? would be the first question a novice would ask, and at that moment an entire set of rules must be put in place in order to bring that novice to the level of master. Any Zen buddhist will tell you this; any Trappist monk will agree.
I am not sure of your age, but I would wager somewhere in the world right now two like-aged men are starting the journey. Let's take the Trappist and the Buddhist. They are in for much reading, much experience, and much spiritual revelation. And there is a structure to assist them, there is a society to help them should they need it.
But what about Mystery? Suffering? Fear? What do you draw from when a child asks you about these? Do you make up an answer on the spot? Do you tell them to figure it out on their own?
God gives us free will. That's why we are always screwing up. Have religions caused pain and suffering? of course. But they also help many people get closer to God. And they put together great soup kitchens.
darkbreed, you and I are from the same camp; we just have different modes of attack.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"darkbreed\")</div>
Personal experience is a wonderful thing and I need mine as much as you need yours. But take away theories and ideas, and I am no better than my dog. He is nothing but the sum of his experiences: that is food/that is not; that is hot/that is not; that behavior gets me punished/that gets me praise. We on the other hand are social creatures needing a balance of ideas and action, the abstract vs. the concrete. Man needs both.
Yes.
I am not a big fan of some of those rules either. But I understand them as being necessary. Even your "see for yourself" religion would require rules. How do I start to see for myself? would be the first question a novice would ask, and at that moment an entire set of rules must be put in place in order to bring that novice to the level of master. Any Zen buddhist will tell you this; any Trappist monk will agree.
I am not sure of your age, but I would wager somewhere in the world right now two like-aged men are starting the journey. Let's take the Trappist and the Buddhist. They are in for much reading, much experience, and much spiritual revelation. And there is a structure to assist them, there is a society to help them should they need it.
But what about Mystery? Suffering? Fear? What do you draw from when a child asks you about these? Do you make up an answer on the spot? Do you tell them to figure it out on their own?
God gives us free will. That's why we are always screwing up. Have religions caused pain and suffering? of course. But they also help many people get closer to God. And they put together great soup kitchens.