Is it worthwhile?

[Harte]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

That depends on many things Harte. There's a lot to be said about falling for ideas without doing the homework, swallowing something wholesale at it's face value and the difference between that and actively going out of your way to disprove a concept, doing the homework.

It's easy to call gullible on something that has the window dressing of New Age. Remember, back in yours and my day the place was called an "Occult Book Store"? that always cracks me up. You know, the place where they sell Black Candles, dried bats, spell, potions and discarded wizard hats. Surprisingly enough, they tended to sell a tad more than that. Sure liked the hats though.

I knew my post was too short but I was tired.

You said

I don't think anyone is "gifted" any more or less than another. I think it boils down to how long they been out hunting for answers / on the path.

That was what I was responding to. A person guillible enough can fool themselves into not looking anymore (thinking they've found it.)

Fact is, IMO (still leaving out the "H" - be true to yourself, I always say) the act of looking is the answer itself.

From a purely academic stance, and the fact that you are an educator, strong mathematical leanings, correct? If I'm not mistaken there are many ways to prove a theorem. The higher the math could it be said that the possible avenues for proving something mathematically become greater? Many ways to skin a cat as it were, unless it's Schrodinger's and had just been joy riding with that celestial hooligan, his partner Obiwan and Titor.

This is true.

It has occurred to me that at some time soon in the future, Physics, Metaphysics and the Grand Father of underlying principles of this Universe are going to hit smack dab at a three way fork in the road and continue on. All of them are joined in some fashion as all of them share the same thing, Energy. Thought is Energy. Observing quantum events effects them? (Depends on which eye you lend to what guess/theory ) The following is a good read:http://www.ask.com/bar?q=quantum+ev...zcVUWBk4/zv4iy8qqw/lNFuc= &tsp=1279815728239

Your probably right on this one as well. Though "soon" may be a bit of a hasty modifier there.

Where's ALL the Anti Matter from the Big Bang that should be here? Hmmm Morph did it?

I read several years ago that they had found a certain proclivity in antimatter that set it apart from matter and apparently accounted for this. But you know science, that might have changed since then. I suggest you google it.

Some questions do have empirical answers you know.

How do we know that thought does not effect both Dark Energy and Dark Mass?

We don't. But that reminds me. They recently came out and said they may have erred about that dark energy stuff and the universe might, after all, not really be accelerating in its expansion.

Like I said, you know science, always changing their story.

In Science's mad rush to dissect the atom into all of the possible God Particles in hopes the Higgs Boson rears it's happy head, I can't help but be reminded of a similarity of hurling people at high speed at each other and somehow be left with all the components except the animating force called life and the consciousness, the driver, that goes with it. As a whole it works while rendering it past a certain physical state, it's no longer working. Body's are funny like that. Would it be possible that the Higgs Boson only exists while everything is connected as a whole?

No. The Higgs boson is theoretical though. It could be that whatever field/particle that causes stuff to have mass (if its not the Higgs) might only exist when the mass is put together.

Who in their right "mind" would want to drive a smashed body? Everybody knows without being told you ain't making french toast if the body you supposed to be driving just done been converted into smitherinees.

Well, I certainly don't drive when my body's smashed, I can tell you that!
Not after that time in Athens after the Dawgs won a big one and I ended up in the ...well, you see where I'm going with that one!

It may just be a safe bet that if the same energy utilized in scoffing at what seems to be new age concepts (which may very well be thousands of years old), was used in actively researching Metaphysics as IF it was a true branch of science instead of a platform for manifesting guffaws, why them white frocked boyos might just come up with a few things real after all.

Unfortunately, if physics can research it, then by definition it cannot possibly be metaphysics so you're on your own (as are we all) on that one pal.

Just like Medicine, unless you are actively testing for and or searching for something specific, the things sitting right next to it are hidden and unobserved. Funny how that works ain't it?

I don't know. I just finished the newest Skeptic magazine and now I'm not real solid on medicine even working at all!

Harte

 

[StarLord]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Ah, then my friend, you are left with naught but a ride on thine own petard.

For if medicine doth not work, tis you healing thyself. Master Depak Chopra would be very proud of you.

Not to quibble, but, Is not Quantum Physics the place where Physics and Metaphysics merge? Some of the "Laws" that define physics in the cosmos may well prove to be way signs lending a sort of hint to what Laws are manifested in our Inner World and more importantly, the reverse. As we postulate and begin to grasp those Inner Laws we experience and begin to catalog what works, what does not and what rests in a grey area.

Here's where it gets interesting. Is the dreamer dreaming the dream, or is it the dream dreaming the dreamer?
Who's doing the painting? Is the painting painting itself due to our concept which is driven by our own energy or are we observing the painting being created unassisted by us? It gets better.

The "Inner World" may be very much like holding an onion that has been pierced by pins that have a graduating thickness; as the hole approaches the center of the onion, it becomes smaller and harder to detect. What once were newly cherished "found" hints, clues, evidence of Laws or A Law, they seem to change as each layer is peeled and removed.
The effect sometimes gives the appearance that one is dealing with a 100% different concept or theory when in fact it's the same thing already experienced and seen but the vehicle of the lesson has changed so the information being passed is more subtle as you approach the center.

One of the greatest source of frustration in the beginning is defining the end results of the experience to an universal corollary / law and the above happens. You get a testy "What the Fuck, Over?" , from your self as you then run the gamut of similar past experiences leading to the same end result and the first impression is that, and hence the saying: "Every Thing You Know Is Wrong". The parameters of the definition change and grow because of the nuances in the delivery shift.

In layman's terms, you are in the big league now and have just begun to survive 98mph pitches to the point that you can actually see the ball. Up to this point perfectly straight, dead center are all that you have experienced. Time is called and there's a new pitcher on the mound. He's ambidextrous, lethal with either arm, and has been known to break the 105mph mark with ease, has a change up list that exceeds the total flavors of See's Candy. He has the ability to change his height from 4'-5" to 8'-11 1/2" tall. When the wind is right he can break wind so severely, you can't see anything for several pitches due to the tears, but you can hear them go by. His bag of tricks also include fear, anger, greed, hate and confusion with the occasional drop dead goddess served on the half shell that morphs into a female Chewbaca in the midst of her worst bout of PMS.

All this while you are learning to do a single arm hand stand with a 900 year old green muppet standing on on foot while juggling, life, the universe, everything, 42, and a few six packs of your favorite brew approaching jungle temperature.

 

[Harte]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Ah, then my friend, you are left with naught but a ride on thine own petard.

For if medicine doth not work, tis you healing thyself. Master Depak Chopra would be very proud of you.

No, I do however believe in the immune system.

I think you would be shocked to know that modern medicine has not resulted in longer life spans.

Also, most of what we call "medicine" these days is really "making people more comfortable (or sometimes less comfortable) in their last days.

For example, did you know that patients that undergo heart bypass surgery have the same outcomes, actually slightly worse outcomes, than people with coronary artery blockages that opt not to have the surgery?

Not to quibble, but, Is not Quantum Physics the place where Physics and Metaphysics merge?

Maybe, but who can say?

BTW, this used to be said about cosmology and metaphysics.

Some of the "Laws" that define physics in the cosmos may well prove to be way signs lending a sort of hint to what Laws are manifested in our Inner World and more importantly, the reverse. As we postulate and begin to grasp those Inner Laws we experience and begin to catalog what works, what does not and what rests in a grey area.

Metaphysics means (literally) beyond the physical. As such, nothing metaphysical can be measured so hence my comment about how we are on our own.

Of course, one can extrapolate (read - speculate) on the workings of some uber-theory of reality based on what we know of the measurable parts, but without any measurement, we have no basis in reality for making any real assertions that way.

IOW, these guys can't research this.

Here's where it gets interesting. Is the dreamer dreaming the dream, or is it the dream dreaming the dreamer?

Or, why assume that the dreamer or the dream have any objective reality whatsoever?

Who's doing the painting? Is the painting painting itself due to our concept which is driven by our own energy or are we observing the painting being created unassisted by us?

My answer - what painting? What is a painting? Why do you assume that I'm real?

In layman's terms, you are in the big league now and have just begun to survive 98mph pitches to the point that you can actually see the ball. Up to this point perfectly straight, dead center are all that you have experienced. Time is called and there's a new pitcher on the mound. He's ambidextrous, lethal with either arm, and has been known to break the 105mph mark with ease, has a change up list that exceeds the total flavors of See's Candy. He has the ability to change his height from 4'-5" to 8'-11 1/2" tall. When the wind is right he can break wind so severely, you can't see anything for several pitches due to the tears, but you can hear them go by. His bag of tricks also include fear, anger, greed, hate and confusion with the occasional drop dead goddess served on the half shell that morphs into a female Chewbaca in the midst of her worst bout of PMS.

Hmmm. I think I married that one! Maybe there is something to this!


Harte

 

[StarLord]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

"No, I do however believe in the immune system."
So does George Carlin. Swimming in shit filled rivers makes your immune system like that of Zeus's.

"For example, did you know that patients that undergo heart bypass surgery have the same outcomes, actually slightly worse outcomes, than people with coronary artery blockages that opt not to have the surgery?"

That's pretty funny and I'd have to question who wrote the study. I'd be very surprised if Lancet produced something like that. If a person has a blockage/s large enough that's deserving of a Bypass procedure, I'd bite the bullet and go get a few more opinions. Push come to shove, no pun intended, depending on how bad the surrounding muscle structure is being starved, angioplasty using a stent can do the same thing without a radical Bypass. IF it can be reached. Bottom line, not fixing a problem like that may be something similar to being trepanned too low and every time you sneeze you loose grey matter that hasn't ossified... If enough of the heart tissue starves it will become necrotic and will not pass electrical current. Wait till your Purkine fibers and SA Node finds out about that. All that work for nothing.

They could have also been honest enough to point out that if you wanted the best case of Staff, the hospital is the place to find it. Same goes for that new fangled flesheating bug too.

"Or, why assume that the dreamer or the dream have any objective reality whatsoever?"
Why would you be relegated to assume that it can not be?

"My answer - what painting? What is a painting? Why do you assume that I'm real?"

The painting that is ever ongoing, the tapestry of life. AH, because only YOU could come up with a story about a VCR. You can't make stuff up like that, THAT'S the real deal AND makes you very real.

Lastly, "Hmmm. I think I married that one! Maybe there is something to this!"
if you are going to use that and attribute it to our better half's, Wait 'till Menopause, you ain't seen nuthin yet Bucko.

 

[Harte]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

I got it (data on bypass surgery) from Skeptic Magazine, like I said. The reference is probably in there though, considering the sort of magazine it is.

Harte

 

[Keroscene]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Isn't it more that modern medicine has resulted in longer average lifespans? Of course we don't see anyone living 300 years or more. I don't think that would be a shocking revelation to anyone though.

"Also, most of what we call "medicine" these days is really "making people more comfortable (or sometimes less comfortable) in their last days."

That's a pretty generalized statement that would probably piss off a lot of people in the medical community. They say the number one killer of old people is retirement.

 

[Harte]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Kero,

Modern medicine has greatly reduced the death rate of infants.

That's about it.

This results in larger average lifespan numbers.

Remember, even in the Bible we are "promised" "threescore and ten" years.

That's 70 years. Even back then.

Any increase since then can more easily be attributed to better diets and cleaner water than to anything medicine has done.

Harte

Edit: The #3 killer of Americans today is medical mistakes - according to Skeptic Mag.

 

[StarLord]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Harte,
That's a pretty broad statement. Care to qualify "modern"? Pick a date when modern medicine came into being.

 

[Keroscene]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Yes do.

I think penicillin and aspirin alone have saved countless lives and I think they would qualify as modern medicine.

CDC has "accidents' around fifth down the list. There's probably a whole lot that qualifies as an accident. From plane crashes to medical mistakes. Although I did read an article that estimated medical mistakes for the entire country based on a study done in New York in the '80s that puts medical mistakes at number one. Although it assumes a very large number go unreported. I wonder if the magazine article is using the same method. But like anything else with statistics either side can sound convincing.

 

[Harte]

Re: Is it worthwhile?

Harte,
That's a pretty broad statement. Care to qualify "modern"? Pick a date when modern medicine came into being.

This statement?

Modern medicine has greatly reduced the death rate of infants.

In what way is this broad?

If you insist - medicine since the advent of germ theory.

H