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<blockquote data-quote="pauli" data-source="post: 9542" data-attributes="member: 88"><p><strong>Islam</strong></p><p></p><p>Oy! So much to which to respond. Let me start by clarifying something important: </p><p></p><p>Cary, I do not and have not at ANY time viewed you as being an anti-semite, so do not be afraid that I am approaching you from this assumption. You stated very clearly that you are not anti-Jewish nor anti-semitic and until it is established to my mind that you are, then I am taking your statements at face value. I would be interested in knowing, however, if you believe that Israel as a country has a right to exist as a Jewish state. If you do, we don't have an argument. If you don't, then we will have to agree to disagree.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, I do not believe that Israel is without blame in every move it makes. The gov't over there is decidedly secular and socialist based. Not being a fan of socialism, I am not always impressed by what they do. However, as a Jew, I am extremely grateful that little country is there. G-d forbid another Hitler would rise to power in the world and I would have no place to run. Many Jews hold similar feelings on this score. That does not mean I don't realize that Israel has its warts. It does, without a doubt - to our shame.</p><p></p><p>Thirdly, though I don't always agree with what you say, or think, I do appreciate hearing what you have to say. You are passionately committed to your ideas - as am I. This is why I can appreciate what you have to say - one passionate person often can appreciate the passion of another because it reminds them of themselves. I am also interested in what you have to say precisely because it is different from the way that I think. How am I to learn about other people's points of view if I lock myself in a ghetto of like-minded thinkers and never explore other ways of seeing things? I am a seeker of truth (I know, <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite61" alt=":unsure:" title="Unsure :unsure:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":unsure:" /> some people don't believe in an objective truth, they believe in moral relativism - but I do believe that there is such a thing as truth with a capital "T"; therefore, I like learning from other people.) And, I don't expect other people to share my opinions. Why on earth would I want that? In proverbs there is a saying: "Iron sharpens iron, therefore one man sharpens another." It is the Jewish way to debate, so I am sorry if I come across a bit more abrasive than what other's expect. This is the way I think... "You show me your thoughts, I'll show you mine and we can banter it back and forth if you are willing." If that is disturbing to you, however, I won't pursue it. I am not asking you to agree with me; and I will let you know if I think you have made a good point. After all, if you and I agree on every detail, then one of us is unnecessary.</p><p></p><p>You raised a bunch of things in your first posting on this thread, and although I know you were not trying to bring up a debate on that first part, I did respond. If you feel it is too O.T. I will understand and not go too far into it. I did recognize when I last posted I only addressed half of your argument. Also, it is late when I am posting here now, so I am not so excited to go into a long posting right now. I will come back and make a few comments on your responses if you are open to it. If not, we will just bump along and continue posting to the issue at hand, which I believe was the topic of "Islam."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thanks phoenix. Always the even-handed moderator, even when you don't have that job anymore. :lol: Still looking to keep the peace I see. @);- </p><p></p><p>I'll get back to this later when I have more time. (sigh)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pauli, post: 9542, member: 88"] [b]Islam[/b] Oy! So much to which to respond. Let me start by clarifying something important: Cary, I do not and have not at ANY time viewed you as being an anti-semite, so do not be afraid that I am approaching you from this assumption. You stated very clearly that you are not anti-Jewish nor anti-semitic and until it is established to my mind that you are, then I am taking your statements at face value. I would be interested in knowing, however, if you believe that Israel as a country has a right to exist as a Jewish state. If you do, we don't have an argument. If you don't, then we will have to agree to disagree. Secondly, I do not believe that Israel is without blame in every move it makes. The gov't over there is decidedly secular and socialist based. Not being a fan of socialism, I am not always impressed by what they do. However, as a Jew, I am extremely grateful that little country is there. G-d forbid another Hitler would rise to power in the world and I would have no place to run. Many Jews hold similar feelings on this score. That does not mean I don't realize that Israel has its warts. It does, without a doubt - to our shame. Thirdly, though I don't always agree with what you say, or think, I do appreciate hearing what you have to say. You are passionately committed to your ideas - as am I. This is why I can appreciate what you have to say - one passionate person often can appreciate the passion of another because it reminds them of themselves. I am also interested in what you have to say precisely because it is different from the way that I think. How am I to learn about other people's points of view if I lock myself in a ghetto of like-minded thinkers and never explore other ways of seeing things? I am a seeker of truth (I know, :unsure: some people don't believe in an objective truth, they believe in moral relativism - but I do believe that there is such a thing as truth with a capital "T"; therefore, I like learning from other people.) And, I don't expect other people to share my opinions. Why on earth would I want that? In proverbs there is a saying: "Iron sharpens iron, therefore one man sharpens another." It is the Jewish way to debate, so I am sorry if I come across a bit more abrasive than what other's expect. This is the way I think... "You show me your thoughts, I'll show you mine and we can banter it back and forth if you are willing." If that is disturbing to you, however, I won't pursue it. I am not asking you to agree with me; and I will let you know if I think you have made a good point. After all, if you and I agree on every detail, then one of us is unnecessary. You raised a bunch of things in your first posting on this thread, and although I know you were not trying to bring up a debate on that first part, I did respond. If you feel it is too O.T. I will understand and not go too far into it. I did recognize when I last posted I only addressed half of your argument. Also, it is late when I am posting here now, so I am not so excited to go into a long posting right now. I will come back and make a few comments on your responses if you are open to it. If not, we will just bump along and continue posting to the issue at hand, which I believe was the topic of "Islam." Thanks phoenix. Always the even-handed moderator, even when you don't have that job anymore. :lol: Still looking to keep the peace I see. @);- I'll get back to this later when I have more time. (sigh) [/QUOTE]
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