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John Titor's Legacy
John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mudpuppy" data-source="post: 29279" data-attributes="member: 134"><p><strong>Re: John Titor Debate!</strong></p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div></p><p> </p><p>I meant to comment on this before and forgot. I think this is an excellent idea. If you had been with us a little longer Apogee, you would have seen a whole host of hoaxers come and go. Some of these hoaxers had some of us going for a time. I admit to spending many many hours in private chat and voice modulating with some of them to get to the truth. In the end, when they are exposed, you feel immediate dissapointment, then a little angry (more at yourself for being gullible than at the hoaxer for stringing you along) and unfortunately, sometimes at your fellow forum members. The camp of believers and disbelievers gets very personal.........some wanting almost desparately to know the "truth" and others to keep the status quo, thereby, keeping their sane, logical world in tact. I, myself, am sort of like Mulder. I "want" to believe (But even I wouldn't have believe the ridiculousness of Adamski) and appreciate members like you, who like Scully, present the credible, logical viewpoint that holds me in check. There is room in this forum for both.....no one is forced or coerced into which side of the fence they choose to sit on,.....or switch to, as the case may be at times. The psychology behind why someone would want to hoax is an excellent topic. There has been enormous debate in this forum, especially during the times a hoaxer shows up, concerning why one hoaxes but I don't believe an actual thread has been started. I began an article last fall on hoaxing but never finished it. If you like, I'll go create the topic and we can fill it in as we go. I do think the psychology behind it all is very interesting. I also think it would benefit the members who (and I have fallen into this category at times) can become highly aggitated at being strung along.</p><p> </p><p>Just as an aside since you are new to our forum, at one point this forum welcomed hoaxers with the stipulation that once exposed, they would agree to come clean and be welcomed into the community as a member. But that seemed to invite nutbags from every corner to us and our members invested much time, emotional energy, and sometimes, money or time from families to expose them. It is my belief that it turned the forum into nothing but a witch hunt type of thing where everyone sat around bored waiting for the next idiot to hoax and be caught. The members became quite skilled at catching them, and the hoaxers seemed to become more ignorant of how to hoax. Exposing hoaxers sort of lost steam and the rules were somewhat revamped. We now state very clearly in the rules, that we do not tolerate hoaxers. I, for one, am glad we took this new turn. None of the hoaxers I've ever seen in forums have ever held a candle to the John Titor saga.</p><p> </p><p>And that brings me back to a few of your points. I believe that the reason some of us are still talking about John Titor is because we have been around the hoaxer block (many in this forum alot longer and more experienced than I) and there has never been any other hoaxer to even come close to Titor's story. You could call him the Uber Hoaxer if you want......but hoax or not...........he has never fully been proven a hoax. If you look at the psychology behind why people hoax, you will not find any of those things in any of John's posts.....at least, I have not. But you are welcomed to research them and point them out. I think it would be a great topic for you or anyone else to start.</p><p> </p><p>(Edit: I've just started a new topic thanks to Apogee's great suggestion. Please check it out and post any theories, research, ideas or additions to hoaxing in this thread) </p><p><a href="http://www.paranormalnetwork.net/showthread.php?p=34596#post34596" target="_blank">http://www.paranormalnetwork.net/showthrea...34596#post34596</a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div></p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> </p><p>Well, obviously one <em>can </em>compare them.....what I meant was that I didn't think there was any comparison........meaning I feel Adamski was ridiculous from the onstart and Titor's saga is more believable. But in laying out your argument, it is only your opinion (and others) that his pictures are not credible; not all see that point of view and the pictures are one of the things that make his story credible to some. Also, I don't seem to recall Adamski predicting in a fax to Art Bell about two missing skyscrappers in New York City, Mad Cow disease, CERN discoveries, ect.... These few things, although still debatable, clearly give Titor way more believability than Adamski and his Venusian fantasies. These kinds of "proofs" are what keep fence sitters jumping back and forth between belief and disbelief.</p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> </p><p>A good illustration. Those people were clearly suckered into their suicidal madness by the twisted agenda of one charismatic individual. </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> </p><p>Agreed. (Resisting the temptation to see visions of Hilter dancing through my head) That is why some of us continue doing research on Titor. We want the "truth" before we want it to be "real".....although, we tend to sit on the believers side more often than not.</p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> </p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div></p><p> </p><p>Yes, that was a bad example.....I concur with you. It was 3am when I wrote that.....i must have been delerious. :lol: </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> </p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div></p><p>Yes...your ratios are pretty accurate.......but I look at it sort of like the death penalty/justice system. The system would let 100 killers free (for lack of "proof")before it convicts even ONE innocent man. In similar fashion, some of us, tolerate those of Adamski and Icke's ilk, (what??? you are not yet convinced that the Queen Mum was eating live babies in the basement of Balmoral Castle????) although we are not raising them to the heights of believability, while we entertain the likes of Titor. The very fact that his story centers around time travel.... a subject even theoretical physicists still argue back and forth over.......only holds some of us in an even longer state of limbo.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mudpuppy, post: 29279, member: 134"] [b]Re: John Titor Debate![/b] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> I meant to comment on this before and forgot. I think this is an excellent idea. If you had been with us a little longer Apogee, you would have seen a whole host of hoaxers come and go. Some of these hoaxers had some of us going for a time. I admit to spending many many hours in private chat and voice modulating with some of them to get to the truth. In the end, when they are exposed, you feel immediate dissapointment, then a little angry (more at yourself for being gullible than at the hoaxer for stringing you along) and unfortunately, sometimes at your fellow forum members. The camp of believers and disbelievers gets very personal.........some wanting almost desparately to know the "truth" and others to keep the status quo, thereby, keeping their sane, logical world in tact. I, myself, am sort of like Mulder. I "want" to believe (But even I wouldn't have believe the ridiculousness of Adamski) and appreciate members like you, who like Scully, present the credible, logical viewpoint that holds me in check. There is room in this forum for both.....no one is forced or coerced into which side of the fence they choose to sit on,.....or switch to, as the case may be at times. The psychology behind why someone would want to hoax is an excellent topic. There has been enormous debate in this forum, especially during the times a hoaxer shows up, concerning why one hoaxes but I don't believe an actual thread has been started. I began an article last fall on hoaxing but never finished it. If you like, I'll go create the topic and we can fill it in as we go. I do think the psychology behind it all is very interesting. I also think it would benefit the members who (and I have fallen into this category at times) can become highly aggitated at being strung along. Just as an aside since you are new to our forum, at one point this forum welcomed hoaxers with the stipulation that once exposed, they would agree to come clean and be welcomed into the community as a member. But that seemed to invite nutbags from every corner to us and our members invested much time, emotional energy, and sometimes, money or time from families to expose them. It is my belief that it turned the forum into nothing but a witch hunt type of thing where everyone sat around bored waiting for the next idiot to hoax and be caught. The members became quite skilled at catching them, and the hoaxers seemed to become more ignorant of how to hoax. Exposing hoaxers sort of lost steam and the rules were somewhat revamped. We now state very clearly in the rules, that we do not tolerate hoaxers. I, for one, am glad we took this new turn. None of the hoaxers I've ever seen in forums have ever held a candle to the John Titor saga. And that brings me back to a few of your points. I believe that the reason some of us are still talking about John Titor is because we have been around the hoaxer block (many in this forum alot longer and more experienced than I) and there has never been any other hoaxer to even come close to Titor's story. You could call him the Uber Hoaxer if you want......but hoax or not...........he has never fully been proven a hoax. If you look at the psychology behind why people hoax, you will not find any of those things in any of John's posts.....at least, I have not. But you are welcomed to research them and point them out. I think it would be a great topic for you or anyone else to start. (Edit: I've just started a new topic thanks to Apogee's great suggestion. Please check it out and post any theories, research, ideas or additions to hoaxing in this thread) [url=http://www.paranormalnetwork.net/showthread.php?p=34596#post34596]http://www.paranormalnetwork.net/showthrea...34596#post34596[/url] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> Well, obviously one [i]can [/i]compare them.....what I meant was that I didn't think there was any comparison........meaning I feel Adamski was ridiculous from the onstart and Titor's saga is more believable. But in laying out your argument, it is only your opinion (and others) that his pictures are not credible; not all see that point of view and the pictures are one of the things that make his story credible to some. Also, I don't seem to recall Adamski predicting in a fax to Art Bell about two missing skyscrappers in New York City, Mad Cow disease, CERN discoveries, ect.... These few things, although still debatable, clearly give Titor way more believability than Adamski and his Venusian fantasies. These kinds of "proofs" are what keep fence sitters jumping back and forth between belief and disbelief. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> A good illustration. Those people were clearly suckered into their suicidal madness by the twisted agenda of one charismatic individual. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> Agreed. (Resisting the temptation to see visions of Hilter dancing through my head) That is why some of us continue doing research on Titor. We want the "truth" before we want it to be "real".....although, we tend to sit on the believers side more often than not. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> Yes, that was a bad example.....I concur with you. It was 3am when I wrote that.....i must have been delerious. :lol: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div> Yes...your ratios are pretty accurate.......but I look at it sort of like the death penalty/justice system. The system would let 100 killers free (for lack of "proof")before it convicts even ONE innocent man. In similar fashion, some of us, tolerate those of Adamski and Icke's ilk, (what??? you are not yet convinced that the Queen Mum was eating live babies in the basement of Balmoral Castle????) although we are not raising them to the heights of believability, while we entertain the likes of Titor. The very fact that his story centers around time travel.... a subject even theoretical physicists still argue back and forth over.......only holds some of us in an even longer state of limbo. [/QUOTE]
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John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?
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