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John Titor's Legacy
John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?
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<blockquote data-quote="Apogee" data-source="post: 29280" data-attributes="member: 600"><p><strong>Re: John Titor Debate!</strong></p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Great post Mud Puppy and thanks for bringing me up to date on the evolution of this board. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite38" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p> </p><p>Believe it or not, there's more to my take on this than simple pragmaticism. I, too, 'want' to believe in so many of the things that are discussed here. As a youth I had a burning passion for the likes of UFO's, The Philadelphia Experiment (in particular) and our native Loch Ness monster. All from the standpoint of a believer. However, as an adult, with more experience in the complexities and frailties of human nature and with much more rigorous critical faculties, I am far more difficult to impress.</p><p> </p><p>Which is why I think the 'ridiculousness' of Adamski is worth pausing over. </p><p>To appreciate his impact, you really have to put the guy into his historical context: </p><p> </p><p>Adamski's claims occured at a time before space travel, when the flying saucer phenomenon was new and freshly enigmatic. Atomic energy and its potential for war and peace was new in the social consciousness. The cultural expectations of aliens were very much in the golden-haired, beautiful, silver-suited mold. Venus was still a perfectly mysterious planet. To an open-minded person of fifty years ago, Adamski would have cut a much less ridiculous figure. Hence the widespread support he garnered which no doubt satisfied whatever needs he was seeking to fulfil. </p><p> </p><p>Its easy with hindsight to simply write Adamski off as a crackpot, -as indeed he was - and I take your point about how he never made any Titor-style predictions. But what I'm really getting at is how much is really known today about exactly why a hamburger salesmen would want to claim alien contact when next to nobody up till that point had done so?</p><p> </p><p>There may be a long history of exposing hoaxers on this board and it may be argued that Titor doesn't seem to fit the profile of one in terms of motivation, but surely its a fact to say that when you are dealing with psychological motivations, the ins and outs of people's minds are as complex and myriad as can be imagined. The bottom line is that most hoaxers simply enjoy being at the centre of something, the kind of positive reinforcement derived from feeling special or unique when they are seen as the keepers of a special experience, secret or knowledge: a degree of almost mystical importance in the eyes of the believers. An importance that would make the taunts of nay-sayers tolerable. And I fail to see any reason why the guy behind Titor's mischief is any different. He (or they) just happen to have a strong political agenda and followed the rules of good-hoaxing well.</p><p> </p><p>Caros Allende's techniques were very similar when he made his original, teasing contact with Dr Jessup, also back in the fifties. The Philadelphia Experiment and all its new marvellous forms on the net can be traced easily back to this one individual's mind games. And he was clever with it, too. Telling the good doctor just enough to make him believe there was something to his claims of inside knowledge, mixed with just enough truth and half-truth to make it all seem just possible. A really good hoax, set in motion in this manner can very soon reach a sort of critical mass of interest which then allows it to be almost self-perpetuating. </p><p> </p><p>The Philadelphia Experiment absolutely had me hooked as a kid. As an adult, I see now that there was nothing whatsoever to it but the unverifiable claims of a few questionable individuals. The myth-making capacity of human nature did the rest. But there are many, many believers out there clutching at any straw that might make it still true. A truly successful hoax!</p><p> </p><p>The only thing that thus far sets Titor apart from the usual doobies who claim wild stuff and places him in the Allende league, is that unlike most - he did his homework and knew when to quit.</p><p> </p><p>I for one don't believe, as many here seem to, that Titor never put a foot wrong and that his so-called predictions are working out. He, to my mind, just played a good hand of sprinkling open-to-interpretaion extrapolation from known trends (and I include his nukes in Iraq statement) through his posts. I do, however, believe that like Allende and - indeed like Adamski- he knows that if you get the balance of plausible and fantastic just right, enough people will believe to fulfill your needs (whatever they may be).</p><p> </p><p>I know also that if I were the perpetrator of this Titor business I would be thoroughly enjoying this internet monster I'd created. And that would be motivation enough! </p><p> </p><p>I suppose you're right to adopt the 'no capital punishment to save the one innocent man' tact. But unfortunately, from my point of view, Titor looks like a life sentence for many, many credulous people. </p><p> </p><p>So the sad thing is, I imagine that fifty years from now, when Titor has moved, like Adamski, into the 'ridiculous' file, he will still, just as Adamski still does, have a handful of the faithful to hold his torch.</p><p> </p><p>Kind regards</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Apogee, post: 29280, member: 600"] [b]Re: John Titor Debate![/b] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Mudpuppy\")</div> Great post Mud Puppy and thanks for bringing me up to date on the evolution of this board. :) Believe it or not, there's more to my take on this than simple pragmaticism. I, too, 'want' to believe in so many of the things that are discussed here. As a youth I had a burning passion for the likes of UFO's, The Philadelphia Experiment (in particular) and our native Loch Ness monster. All from the standpoint of a believer. However, as an adult, with more experience in the complexities and frailties of human nature and with much more rigorous critical faculties, I am far more difficult to impress. Which is why I think the 'ridiculousness' of Adamski is worth pausing over. To appreciate his impact, you really have to put the guy into his historical context: Adamski's claims occured at a time before space travel, when the flying saucer phenomenon was new and freshly enigmatic. Atomic energy and its potential for war and peace was new in the social consciousness. The cultural expectations of aliens were very much in the golden-haired, beautiful, silver-suited mold. Venus was still a perfectly mysterious planet. To an open-minded person of fifty years ago, Adamski would have cut a much less ridiculous figure. Hence the widespread support he garnered which no doubt satisfied whatever needs he was seeking to fulfil. Its easy with hindsight to simply write Adamski off as a crackpot, -as indeed he was - and I take your point about how he never made any Titor-style predictions. But what I'm really getting at is how much is really known today about exactly why a hamburger salesmen would want to claim alien contact when next to nobody up till that point had done so? There may be a long history of exposing hoaxers on this board and it may be argued that Titor doesn't seem to fit the profile of one in terms of motivation, but surely its a fact to say that when you are dealing with psychological motivations, the ins and outs of people's minds are as complex and myriad as can be imagined. The bottom line is that most hoaxers simply enjoy being at the centre of something, the kind of positive reinforcement derived from feeling special or unique when they are seen as the keepers of a special experience, secret or knowledge: a degree of almost mystical importance in the eyes of the believers. An importance that would make the taunts of nay-sayers tolerable. And I fail to see any reason why the guy behind Titor's mischief is any different. He (or they) just happen to have a strong political agenda and followed the rules of good-hoaxing well. Caros Allende's techniques were very similar when he made his original, teasing contact with Dr Jessup, also back in the fifties. The Philadelphia Experiment and all its new marvellous forms on the net can be traced easily back to this one individual's mind games. And he was clever with it, too. Telling the good doctor just enough to make him believe there was something to his claims of inside knowledge, mixed with just enough truth and half-truth to make it all seem just possible. A really good hoax, set in motion in this manner can very soon reach a sort of critical mass of interest which then allows it to be almost self-perpetuating. The Philadelphia Experiment absolutely had me hooked as a kid. As an adult, I see now that there was nothing whatsoever to it but the unverifiable claims of a few questionable individuals. The myth-making capacity of human nature did the rest. But there are many, many believers out there clutching at any straw that might make it still true. A truly successful hoax! The only thing that thus far sets Titor apart from the usual doobies who claim wild stuff and places him in the Allende league, is that unlike most - he did his homework and knew when to quit. I for one don't believe, as many here seem to, that Titor never put a foot wrong and that his so-called predictions are working out. He, to my mind, just played a good hand of sprinkling open-to-interpretaion extrapolation from known trends (and I include his nukes in Iraq statement) through his posts. I do, however, believe that like Allende and - indeed like Adamski- he knows that if you get the balance of plausible and fantastic just right, enough people will believe to fulfill your needs (whatever they may be). I know also that if I were the perpetrator of this Titor business I would be thoroughly enjoying this internet monster I'd created. And that would be motivation enough! I suppose you're right to adopt the 'no capital punishment to save the one innocent man' tact. But unfortunately, from my point of view, Titor looks like a life sentence for many, many credulous people. So the sad thing is, I imagine that fifty years from now, when Titor has moved, like Adamski, into the 'ridiculous' file, he will still, just as Adamski still does, have a handful of the faithful to hold his torch. Kind regards [/QUOTE]
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John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?
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