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John Titor's Legacy
John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?
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<blockquote data-quote="sinister" data-source="post: 29295" data-attributes="member: 208"><p><strong>Re: John Titor Debate!</strong></p><p></p><p>I think it's important tho to think about what "waco-type event' really means. I don't believe this is a "term", i.e. some vague group of words that has in our society come to mean something very specific, I believe it was just an idea. This is a phrase that Titor used, that we've built up into a term simply for the sake of making it easier to talk about these things. But I think that phrase has tripped us up a lot. We should be looking at the Patriot Act (not that none of us are, I think we all recognize how important the Act is). Waco, to me, was about the feds overstepping their boundaries, shifting from protectors of the people to enforcers of law (in my mind, two very different things). Waco was also about the end result, the outcome, of this shift. I've been scanning the massive amounts of incoming news lately for anything related to the Patriot Act (i.e., any stories that involve law enforcement utilizing this new power), and the results are pretty stunning. There is a seperation going on, between the citizenry, and what has become "authority". We are all becoming far more desensitized than ever before, very rapidly. What this means is that law enforcement may be less likely to feel empathy towards the "criminals", and the "criminals" are increasingly not caring. I've heard the phrase from my friends 'whatever, cops can do whatever they want anyway" countless times, and yet there's a mentality that law, rules, and authority have much less impact as they did before. My generation is growing up to not give a ****, and law enforcement has more power to do something about it than ever before. I see it as a vicious cycle, and I think this is what Titor wanted us (time traveller or not) to take from 'waco-type events'. Just because the Patriot Act passed through Congress, does not make it, in my eyes just. And therefore, I will not obey, listen, or support it. Just because police are in their powers to do something, does not make it "okay", I don't care how many judges, senators, and policy-makers put their stamp of approval on it, they aren't the ones who have to live with its direct effects. </p><p>I watched a video recently of some protestors here in Santa Cruz, mostly students, protesting California's refusal to pay our campus workers decent wages, despite the huge surplus they have. It was at night, and the protestors had taken residence in a series of tents on campus, in a field within the view of our campus' headmaster's residence (which lies on campus). The police arrived, and preceded to 'sleeper hold' every single protestor as the protestors were zip-tied and placed face-down in a row, one after the next. People were screaming, although not the people being zip-tied, their tongues gagged and hung out from the pressure point hold, there was little they could say. They were held at the police station until someone finally realized what the police were doing was illegal. As soon as someone came up to the station and informed the police they were wrong, they let them go, charged with nothing. It became obvious to me the police had never intended to charge these protestors, and isntead held them, for no reason.</p><p>Ya, paranoia's a bitch when there's no cause for it, and I don't walk around corners stealthily, checking for cops, but I do have my eyes open. I guess I might not call these things 'waco-type', if I was in Titor's place, but I would damn sure recognize them as a sign of too much power in authority's hands, corruption, desensitization, and an impending collapse of said system. I'm trying to think about what would have happened 10 years ago in these exact situations, I remember when police shooting someone down, hostage-taker or not, would only happen once in a great while. Now it seems like this sort of thing happens every damn week. This leads me to believe there is a change occuring, a movement in a certain direction. And that direction can be nowhere good.</p><p>To wrap this post up, I've made a lot of blanket statements, so let me clarify. When I say 'law enforcement', I don't mean to criticize all of it. Many people I would consider friends without a moment's thought are involved in law enforcement, and I know some people here are too. Don't take offense, I can recognize the difference. Just like every other thing, there are people with good and bad intentions. Thoughtful and toughtless.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="sinister, post: 29295, member: 208"] [b]Re: John Titor Debate![/b] I think it's important tho to think about what "waco-type event' really means. I don't believe this is a "term", i.e. some vague group of words that has in our society come to mean something very specific, I believe it was just an idea. This is a phrase that Titor used, that we've built up into a term simply for the sake of making it easier to talk about these things. But I think that phrase has tripped us up a lot. We should be looking at the Patriot Act (not that none of us are, I think we all recognize how important the Act is). Waco, to me, was about the feds overstepping their boundaries, shifting from protectors of the people to enforcers of law (in my mind, two very different things). Waco was also about the end result, the outcome, of this shift. I've been scanning the massive amounts of incoming news lately for anything related to the Patriot Act (i.e., any stories that involve law enforcement utilizing this new power), and the results are pretty stunning. There is a seperation going on, between the citizenry, and what has become "authority". We are all becoming far more desensitized than ever before, very rapidly. What this means is that law enforcement may be less likely to feel empathy towards the "criminals", and the "criminals" are increasingly not caring. I've heard the phrase from my friends 'whatever, cops can do whatever they want anyway" countless times, and yet there's a mentality that law, rules, and authority have much less impact as they did before. My generation is growing up to not give a ****, and law enforcement has more power to do something about it than ever before. I see it as a vicious cycle, and I think this is what Titor wanted us (time traveller or not) to take from 'waco-type events'. Just because the Patriot Act passed through Congress, does not make it, in my eyes just. And therefore, I will not obey, listen, or support it. Just because police are in their powers to do something, does not make it "okay", I don't care how many judges, senators, and policy-makers put their stamp of approval on it, they aren't the ones who have to live with its direct effects. I watched a video recently of some protestors here in Santa Cruz, mostly students, protesting California's refusal to pay our campus workers decent wages, despite the huge surplus they have. It was at night, and the protestors had taken residence in a series of tents on campus, in a field within the view of our campus' headmaster's residence (which lies on campus). The police arrived, and preceded to 'sleeper hold' every single protestor as the protestors were zip-tied and placed face-down in a row, one after the next. People were screaming, although not the people being zip-tied, their tongues gagged and hung out from the pressure point hold, there was little they could say. They were held at the police station until someone finally realized what the police were doing was illegal. As soon as someone came up to the station and informed the police they were wrong, they let them go, charged with nothing. It became obvious to me the police had never intended to charge these protestors, and isntead held them, for no reason. Ya, paranoia's a bitch when there's no cause for it, and I don't walk around corners stealthily, checking for cops, but I do have my eyes open. I guess I might not call these things 'waco-type', if I was in Titor's place, but I would damn sure recognize them as a sign of too much power in authority's hands, corruption, desensitization, and an impending collapse of said system. I'm trying to think about what would have happened 10 years ago in these exact situations, I remember when police shooting someone down, hostage-taker or not, would only happen once in a great while. Now it seems like this sort of thing happens every damn week. This leads me to believe there is a change occuring, a movement in a certain direction. And that direction can be nowhere good. To wrap this post up, I've made a lot of blanket statements, so let me clarify. When I say 'law enforcement', I don't mean to criticize all of it. Many people I would consider friends without a moment's thought are involved in law enforcement, and I know some people here are too. Don't take offense, I can recognize the difference. Just like every other thing, there are people with good and bad intentions. Thoughtful and toughtless. [/QUOTE]
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John Titor's Legacy
John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?
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