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<blockquote data-quote="Harte" data-source="post: 28492" data-attributes="member: 443"><p><strong>Re: Light</strong></p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"thenumbersix\")</div></p><p> </p><p>Six,</p><p>I know I was nit-picking here, but most energies do not propagate at lightspeed. How long does it take for a spoon handle to propagate heat energy to your hand from the bowl? Waves on water are energy propagation. Sound waves similarly. </p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"thenumbersix\")</div></p><p> </p><p>Light cannot be measured at any speed other than the speed of light in whatever medium it's traveling through. This is a fact and is not dependant on who is doing the measuring or what his velocity relative to the light beam he is measuring may be. In your example of the space around the sun, if you want to say that the light first travels through a layer (or layers) of gaseous emissions from the sun and then into a (pretty much) vacuum, then you would see a change in speed. Thus is because light travels faster in a vacuum. But gravity will not change the speed of any light it may affect. It doesn't matter who measures the speed of the light in question. If you were a photon leaving the sun, you'd measure yourself at the same speed as Joe Blow with the telescope that is looking at you from Earth. This is what Einstein meant by C being a universal constant.</p><p> </p><p>Think of yourself riding in a passenger car on a train that is moving at 10 mph. You stand in the aisle and throw a ball (at, say, 5 mph) forward in the direction of travel of the train. Everyone on the train shares your reference frame. They all see the ball going 5 mph forward. Some guy that is stationary and outside the train, looking in the window, would see the ball moving forward at 15 mph (train speed + ball speed.) He is not in your reference frame so he sees things differently. Now substitue photon for ball and C for the 5 mph ball speed. You would think that the stationary observer would see the photon moving at 10mph+C. But he would not, he would see, just like you and your fellow travelers would see, the photon moving in the direction of the train's forward motion at a speed equal to C. The speed of light is constant, regardless of your reference frame. It is this postulate that leads to time dilation, constriction of length and all the other wierd things special relativity predicted that have since been shown to be true.</p><p> </p><p>Harte</p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"MadIce\")</div></p><p> </p><p>Madice,</p><p>Gary Oas' postings on the matter of relativistic mass came up when I tried to find more on the subject. It was his info among others that caused my confusion. The use of spacetime geometry to explain how light is bent is all well and good. It can also explain how light is trapped in a black hole. My problem is with the need for two masses in gravitational attraction. Of course, this idea of both masses being necessary is Newtonian. Don't tell me I'll have to learn tensor mathematics to understand this.</p><p> </p><p>Harte</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harte, post: 28492, member: 443"] [b]Re: Light[/b] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"thenumbersix\")</div> Six, I know I was nit-picking here, but most energies do not propagate at lightspeed. How long does it take for a spoon handle to propagate heat energy to your hand from the bowl? Waves on water are energy propagation. Sound waves similarly. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"thenumbersix\")</div> Light cannot be measured at any speed other than the speed of light in whatever medium it's traveling through. This is a fact and is not dependant on who is doing the measuring or what his velocity relative to the light beam he is measuring may be. In your example of the space around the sun, if you want to say that the light first travels through a layer (or layers) of gaseous emissions from the sun and then into a (pretty much) vacuum, then you would see a change in speed. Thus is because light travels faster in a vacuum. But gravity will not change the speed of any light it may affect. It doesn't matter who measures the speed of the light in question. If you were a photon leaving the sun, you'd measure yourself at the same speed as Joe Blow with the telescope that is looking at you from Earth. This is what Einstein meant by C being a universal constant. Think of yourself riding in a passenger car on a train that is moving at 10 mph. You stand in the aisle and throw a ball (at, say, 5 mph) forward in the direction of travel of the train. Everyone on the train shares your reference frame. They all see the ball going 5 mph forward. Some guy that is stationary and outside the train, looking in the window, would see the ball moving forward at 15 mph (train speed + ball speed.) He is not in your reference frame so he sees things differently. Now substitue photon for ball and C for the 5 mph ball speed. You would think that the stationary observer would see the photon moving at 10mph+C. But he would not, he would see, just like you and your fellow travelers would see, the photon moving in the direction of the train's forward motion at a speed equal to C. The speed of light is constant, regardless of your reference frame. It is this postulate that leads to time dilation, constriction of length and all the other wierd things special relativity predicted that have since been shown to be true. Harte <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"MadIce\")</div> Madice, Gary Oas' postings on the matter of relativistic mass came up when I tried to find more on the subject. It was his info among others that caused my confusion. The use of spacetime geometry to explain how light is bent is all well and good. It can also explain how light is trapped in a black hole. My problem is with the need for two masses in gravitational attraction. Of course, this idea of both masses being necessary is Newtonian. Don't tell me I'll have to learn tensor mathematics to understand this. Harte [/QUOTE]
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