minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

Here is that story.



Supremacists a border worry

FBI, civilian group are concerned about racists joining border sweeps next month.

SUSAN CARROLL
The Arizona Republic Tucson Bureau

GARY GAYNOR/Tucson Citizen​

'Some people have said I'm racist, and that's just not true. My son-in-law is a full-on Mexican, and my grandson is half-Mexican. It's not a race thing. This is an enforcement of law issue.'
- Minuteman Project organizer Jim Gilchrist TOMBSTONE - The FBI and leaders of a civilian patrol set to descend on southern Arizona next month to prevent illegal immigrants from crossing the U.S.-Mexico border say they are becoming increasingly concerned about white supremacists and other extremists joining the effort.


The Internet-driven recruiting effort for the Minuteman Project has almost 900 volunteers and last week alone generated more than 1 million hits on the project's Web site, organizers said.

But the patrol also has drawn major interest on white supremacist Web sites and in their chat rooms. An Aryan Nation site links directly to the Minuteman Project home page with the words: \"A call for action on part of ALL ARYAN SOLDIERS.\"

FBI spokeswoman Susan Herskovitz said the civilian patrol's plan to converge on this town of 1,500 on April 1 for a monthlong stakeout on the border is \"definitely a concern.\" She declined to elaborate.

Jim Gilchrist, who launched the project, sometimes thinks of his brainchild and asks, \"Oh, man, what have I created?\" Still, Gilchrist, 56, a retired California accountant and Vietnam War veteran, said he is confident the group's efforts will be a \"peaceful protest\" by \"patriots\" who reject violence, and that members will successfully weed out any extremists.

The Minuteman Project is an outgrowth of an effort started in 2002 by Chris Simcox, a retired kindergarten teacher and California transplant. He founded an organization called Civil Homeland Defense, which patrols the desert, finds illegal immigrants and relays their locations to U.S. Border Patrol agents.

Simcox, 44, describes the efforts as a kind of expanded \"neighborhood watch.\"

Gilchrist heard news accounts of Simcox's work, came to Arizona to meet him and in October launched the nationwide recruiting drive for the Minuteman Project.

The group's members plan to hold demonstrations and conduct round-the-clock patrols for a month in the San Pedro Valley, a popular smuggling corridor. Organizers say some volunteers may stay for days, while others plan to remain the whole month.

advertisementhttp://sabino.tucson.com/RealMedia/...zenEnews.gif/64383131393537643432343839303930Gilchrist acknowledged all the attention has attracted fringe groups, mainly three \"violent\" factions that are trying to co-opt the group's efforts: white supremacists, radical pro-Hispanic groups and \"open-border fanatics.\"

Organizers of the Minuteman Project say they are working to weed out overt racists from membership rolls and say they have turned over three people to the FBI. The agency would not confirm that information.

Simcox said applicants are screened, noting that the group identified a person who was posting on a white supremacist Web site and kicked him off the patrol. All members will be issued ID badges, Simcox said, and anyone who is not pre-registered will not be allowed to participate. All will be required to provide a drivers license.

Simcox said he was upset by the association with the white power Web sites but has no way to stop them from linking to the Minuteman site. The project is listed under an Aryan Nation Web site's calendar of white power events. And the site has a chat room dedicated to the effort, including a posting talking about killing Mexican soldiers and sending them home in body bags. The Aryan Nation did not return messages seeking comment. Its Web site includes a message that the group is \"not interested in participating with any commercial media,\" in part because of \"your anti-white stance.\"

Click to expand...


That is about as close to calling the minutemen a bunch of Nazis that the FBI can come without outright lying. It is interasting that the aryan nation linked to them, wonder if they'll show up on their own. Also of note is the fact that the feds have a long history of penetrating the highest levels of the AN leadership. Could they be setting the minutemen up on purpose?
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

my appologies.... it was never my intention to upsent anyone by posting that artical. i have freinds that serve in the police force as well as the military , i was a marine , my father was a fireman. the point i was attempting to make was the growing dissent among the american public ... so much seems to be happening and it seems to be leading us down the path to titors civil war, im not a typest or a great speller either.( yet to find this referenced on site spell checker) but i assure you that i am quite intelligent , i am wide awake and quite aware of whats going on around me unlike 70% of americans that haven't woken up to the fact that we are looseing our rights as we speak, and most think your a raveing loonatic if you try and make them aware of it ,some are slowly wakeing up... bushes approval rateing has dropped to the lowest in his two terms,and that seems funny... so close to the what ever it was , i m not comfortble with the word" election" but that says something .and the minute men/women mean no harm they just want to make a point and are trying to help, yet they are being labled vigillanties?? at waco they weren't out to harm anyone either.. they were just trying to practice their religion ,they thought that was a constitutionaly protected right , guess not... wrong religion ,they weren't dyed in the wool evangelicals, so see what happend... that seems to be the course this is takeing,but that being said ,i ment no harm or offense ,in the future i will try and think more about it before i post such a thing
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

most likely a set up... this thing is a powder keg with a short fuse and both side seem to be playing chicken with bic lighters!!
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

You know, I hear a lot on this board about a coming civil war, and quite frankly, I think there's a "long way" to go before the *average* American becomes hopeless enough (a far cry from just disagreeing or complaining about) to jeopardize their family's welfare, give up their career (even for a period of time), and/or otherwise disrupt their standard of living to take up arms against whom? A revolution against the government? A civil war between the left and right might be more likely, but still, think seriously for a minute what is entailed in either case. Think of the personal sacrifices necessary to make that commitment, and then think of how widespread that commitment would have to be to encompass enough people to really be considered a *civil war* or a *revolution*.

I'm not trying to downgrade people's discontent at all. I share many of the same frustrations, but I still maintain that in the end, we're a long way from war in either case.

I know the JT predictions make us wonder, but the attitude that *every event* places us a bit closer to that destiny just seems a little silly to me. In the overall scheme of things, most of us (as compared to most less fortunate in other countries) are doing quite well, and even though things are far from perfect, they're certainly not bad enough (now or in the foreseeable future) to warrant risking all that we've worked for.

MHO

Z-
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

more on the ms- 13
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FROM JOSEPH FARAH'S G2 BULLETIN
Showdown
at border?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Editor's note: Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin is an online, subscription intelligence news service from the creator of WorldNetDaily.com ? a journalist who has been developing sources around the world for almost 30 years.

? 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.

A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders from federal prison to members of his international criminal organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border control into their own hands.

The American civilians, known as the "Minutemen," say they have some 750 volunteers ready to show up in Tombstone to start policing the border and dealing with illegal immigration.


The Mara Salvatruchas, founded in Los Angeles, has become one of the most violent and widespread gangs throughout South America, the U.S. and even Canada. Many of its members and leaders have been deported from the U.S., but the group is said to be deeply involved in cross-border arms-running and drug-smuggling operations, according to U.S. law enforcement sources.

Lately, the gang has joined forces with former members of the Farabundo Mart? National Liberation Front, a radical terrorist group, and some U.S. intelligence sources say they may also be cooperating with Islamic terrorist groups ? including al-Qaida.

Meanwhile, the Minutemen hope to form a group of civilians from all walks of life to patrol the border day and night ? even with the threat of such violence. Their goal is stop the flow of illegal immigration through the Arizona-Mexico border, the biggest entry point into the U.S.

Jim Gilchrist of Orange County, Calif., is leading the project.

"I struck the mother lode of nationalism," he told a local TV station. "I thought I would be lucky to get 12 volunteers. In six months, I've gotten almost 500."

The target is a 230-mile stretch of desert along the Arizona-Mexico border. Some people call the area "America's Open Door." Along this section of the border, more than 43 percent of all illegal entries to the U.S. take place.

Last year, the Tucson Border Patrol apprehended 491,000. But for every person caught, immigration sources say, at least five walk in undetected.

"We're going to set up at least 40 maybe 80 outposts, four to six people per outpost 24/7, looking for people who are infiltrating over that border," said Gilchrist.

To do this, Gilchrist is amassing people from all walks of life to spend a month camped out on the border.

But some say taking the work of border patrol into their own hands could be deadly. While Gilchrist stresses non-violence, he doesn't rule out the possibility that many of his volunteers will be armed.

"Ten percent of our members are retired law enforcement officers who have a right to carry a concealed weapon. They probably will carry and you won't know it," he said.

But Andy Adame with the U.S. Border Patrol in Tucson warned "people are going to get hurt." Adame said many of these volunteers don't know what they're in for.

"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're going to have a gun fight," said Adame.

Border patrol agents have seen a growing problem with violence in recent years. Agents have been attacked by frustrated smugglers with rocks, bricks, even automatic weapons.

According to authorities, violence along the Tucson sector has climbed to an all-time high.

"Bringing untrained civilians into this border environment is a recipe for disaster," said Adame.

But that has not deterred many of the volunteers.

The Minutemen even have an air force. They plan to use about two dozen aircraft to patrol the skies near the border.

Rivera-Paz was arrested three weeks ago and is accused of murdering more than two dozen people in Honduras. He was wanted in connection with the December bus massacre of 28 people, including six children, in San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

The Mara Salvatruchas identify themselves with tattoos, such as "MS" or the numbers 13 and 18, signifying their relationship to the gang. The gang formed in the United States in the 1980s in a Los Angeles prison. The 13 and 18 signify the city streets in L.A. where they hung out.

U.S. officials are concerned the gang members might help sneak al-Qaida terrorists into America.

Rivera-Paz was charged with illegally entering the United States after being deported, but is expected to be extradited to Honduras to face charges in connection with the bus massacre.

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-13
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

,
I think there's a \"long way\" to go before the *average* American becomes hopeless enough (a far cry from just disagreeing or complaining about) to jeopardize their family's welfare, give up their career (even for a period of time), and/or otherwise disrupt their standard of living to take up arms against whom? A revolution against the government? A civil war between the left and right might be more likely, but still, think seriously for a minute what is entailed in either case. Think of the personal sacrifices necessary to make that commitment, and then think of how widespread that commitment would have to be to encompass enough people to really be considered a *civil war* or a *revolution*.
Click to expand...

You are correct in that the average American is a long way from picking up a rifle. However no modern revolution has happened all at once. The first resistors are always a small underground group (several in the case of the modern united states) Their actions cause government forces to crack down, causing more resentment and leading more people to activally revolt. This usually continues from the underground phase untill full time gurilla formations appear and then grow into real military units. Titor said that the war started in 2005. I think that he ment the underground phase, and not the active military phase.
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Zoomerz\")</div>
You know, I hear a lot on this board about a coming civil war, and quite frankly, I think there's a \"long way\" to go before the *average* American becomes hopeless enough (a far cry from just disagreeing or complaining about) to jeopardize their family's welfare, give up their career (even for a period of time), and/or otherwise disrupt their standard of living to take up arms against whom? A revolution against the government? A civil war between the left and right might be more likely, but still, think seriously for a minute what is entailed in either case. Think of the personal sacrifices necessary to make that commitment, and then think of how widespread that commitment would have to be to encompass enough people to really be considered a *civil war* or a *revolution*.

I'm not trying to downgrade people's discontent at all. I share many of the same frustrations, but I still maintain that in the end, we're a long way from war in either case.

I know the JT predictions make us wonder, but the attitude that *every event* places us a bit closer to that destiny just seems a little silly to me. In the overall scheme of things, most of us (as compared to most less fortunate in other countries) are doing quite well, and even though things are far from perfect, they're certainly not bad enough (now or in the foreseeable future) to warrant risking all that we've worked for.

MHO

Z-[/b]
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with all of this, the american people aren't about to wage a war on anyone (especially) the US gov. I think they're too comfortable to give up their lives over disagreements. BUT I could see the sheep being forced into it IF the government started cracking down on rights like JT said, didn't he say something about people's neighbors being arrested and detained for no reason? That'd be the only way I could see it going down. I guess the minutemen could lead the government into that crackdown somehow? If titor was telling the truth, it'll be very interesting and scary to watch this play out.
 
Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Crosstika\")</div>
I pretty much agree with all of this, ? the american people aren't about to wage a war on anyone ?(especially) the US gov. ? I think they're too comfortable to give up their lives over disagreements. ? ?BUT ?I could see ?the sheep being forced into it IF the government started cracking down on rights like JT said, didn't he say something about people's neighbors being arrested and detained for no reason? ? That'd be the only way I could see it going down. ? ?I guess the minutemen could lead the government into that crackdown somehow? ? If titor was telling the truth, it'll be very interesting and scary ?to watch this play out.[/b]
Click to expand...

I think you have it nailed there Crosstika and Darkwolf. Most people won't read the writing on the wall until it effects them personally. The govt. has been cracking down on rights but most don't think it can happen to them. Who would want to give up a comfortable lifestyle if they didn't have to? Also I think the divide and conquer tactics have most people pretty confused still. At the same time I see that breaking down somewhat. I'm still hoping that enough people wake up in time to avoid an all out conflict. But time will tell.

I got this quote off the Minuteman Project website:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."*-Mark Twain**
 

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