A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite - Paranormalis Forums
Here's a link to a new site that only recently came online: http://www.seapyramid.org/photos - Harte Actually the site has been online since 2001
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Site is all crazy nonsence... 2 40.00%
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:06 AM #1 (permalink)
Sea
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Default A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Here's a link to a new site that only recently came online:
http://www.seapyramid.org/photos - Harte
Actually the site has been online since 2001 under the domain of seapyramid.net. In March of this year it was changed tothe new domain URL - Atlantis & Ancient Civilizations - due to the bad practices of an unethical person. Last month the site received almost 900k hits and I have not promoted traffic from the other domain. The site was just 'refound' that quickly by itself.
Quote:
They have a large collection of photos of all sorts of ancient artifacts, including the silly ones like the Egyptian helicopter, the Dropa stones, the "Alien hybrid" skulls, etc. And they plan to enlarge.
Also included are photos of ancient monuments, relief carvings, tombs - all good stuff for anyone interested in the ancient world or archaeology in general. - Harte
At present there are now over 1000 images available for viewing, download and e-cards. More will be added as time permits but working on other sections of the site at the moment. The web site itself is currently over 2500 pages.
Quote:
The site is somewhat loopy, not scientific, so bring your grain of salt. There is a forum there. The gallery is one part of a larger pseudoarchaeology site. - Harte
While I am an Atlantis believer, I would not consider the site psuedoscience. Articles are researched and designed not to give the answers but to provide a variety of theories and possibilities. Mainsteam theories AND strange ones are questioned. It is my belief that we do NOT know the true answers and only by questioning all the ideas might we actually figure something out. I try to leave the readers with information, ideas and possibilities so that they might find the answers which, to them, promote a true possibility.
Examing, questioning and new thought are all foundations in true science for if we did none of those we would still be accepting that the world was flat and flight impossible. If the answers that are currently accepted by mainstream science about ancient history were correct we would not have the hundreds of conflicting instances that don't 'fit in' and we can not explain. Therefore mainstream science is not correct and we must continue to look at all possibilities and question them all.
Actually a number of respected professionals in the archaeology field routinely visit A&AC and correspond with me on occassion when they have something new of interest or something they want to bring to my attention. It is because of the views I show and the questioning done on A&AC that I have received the attention of those in the field. Whether they agree with my questing or not, they respect the fact that I do question and those questions help them to think 'out side the box' when they are needing a fresh outlook on a situation. NBC also contacted me concerning their new documentary scheduled to air next month on Atlantis and featuring the new research at Bimini. The site is also used by 3 public schools to my knowledge (maybe more, who knows) as a teaching tool.
Yes we do have a forum, though the current one is less then a month old due to recent changes in format. The site also is syndicated now and there are methods in place now that allow for comments/discussion on the articles, news and all indiviually besides the forum. We also now have a monthly newsletter available on-line or by e-mail which highlights the months news, interesting web sites and more. The current news headlines from a number of sources are available and updated as those agencies post them. Local weather is also available for members.
Quote:
I saved one photo of a painting of Horus from the tomb of the son of Ramses IX. But the filesize was too big to post, and the site won't let you steal the thumbs. - Harte
No-right-click is a feature available on the net that I have never supported and in the Ancient Photo Gallery it was part of the design and not something I added. The script for that has been found and removed
Quote:
I haven't explored the entire gallery yet, but what I've seen looks promising. Some of you die hard Atlantis Freaks out there will really enjoy it, I think. -Harte
I do appreciate the recommendation and did not come here just to bitch. I have actually been watching this post since about a week after you started the thread on my gallery. it was easy to find with the hits it was producing on my web stats. I just thought it was time to let a few facts about A&AC be known that you had missed or wasn't aware of in your post.
Sea
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Last edited by Sea : 06-28-2006 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 06-28-2006, 12:45 PM #2 (permalink)
StarLord
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
I too am a believer of Atlantis, I am waiting for the Land it once rested on to rise from the Sea where it sank some 15,000 years ago. Until then we might have a problem getting Harte to accept it as anything but a Myth.
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:24 PM #3 (permalink)
gl100
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarLord
I too am a believer of Atlantis, I am waiting for the Land it once rested on to rise from the Sea where it sank some 15,000 years ago. Until then we might have a problem getting Harte to accept it as anything but a Myth.
Donovan? Is that you? Is Jennifer Juniper with you or is she out trying to catch the wind with Lalena?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea
Articles are researched and designed not to give the answers but to provide a variety of theories and possibilities. Mainsteam theories AND strange ones are questioned. It is my belief that we do NOT know the true answers and only by questioning all the ideas might we actually figure something out. I try to leave the readers with information, ideas and possibilities so that they might find the answers which, to them, promote a true possibility.
You appear to take offense to your site being labeled as pseudoscientific. By definition, pseudoscience is a methodology whereby theories, many based on logical fallacies, are presented in a scientific manner but lack scientific methods and foundation.
While your site is nicely laid out, informative and entertaining, I have to agree with Harte regarding the overall nature of the material presented. The material that you cover is, by its very nature, mysterious and certainly interesting. It is not, in any way, outside the realm of scientific explanation. It is however, open to the interpretations of those not willing to the conventional explanations.
Any and all information regarding Atlantis that is not discussed by Plato IS pure conjecture based on the speculations of others. Speculations not research. There is no written account of Atlantis found in any civilization’s records. None. That is the scientific position. The pseudoscientific position relies on conjecture, leaps of logic and Edgar Cayce for its data about Atlantis. Is any of it verifiable? No. Is it pseudoscientific? Partially. Some of it is just pure nonsense.
Consider you out of place artifacts (OOP’s) gallery. You state that you present both sides of the story and let the reader decide. Not quite true. You present some very interesting pictures and add some provocative descriptions. What you don’t present are the known scientific explanation for these artifacts. For example:
The hammer encased in 100 million year old stone – An astounding fossil? Not really. The wooden shaft of the hammer shows no fossilization. Fossilization would have taken place over millions of years, concretion on the other hand could have occurred in less than ten.
The fact that the stone was found in 100 million year old strata does not make it or the hammer 100 million years old. Concretion can occur at any level of strata.
This is the same principle as your spark plug, better known as the Coso Artifact. You claim very little is known. Not so. It is known to be a 1920’s sparkplug encased in stone. What makes it a unique artifact is the pseudoscientific conjecture that it is encased in a geode that would have taken thousands of years to form. The problem is that it is not encased in a geode.
I could go on about toy gliders, stylized birds and stingrays being depicted as flying machines or even the ancient Egyptian air force but suffice it to say, there are valid, well researched explanations and I’m sure Harte is far more capable than I to address these and all of the other artifacts.
The point I’m trying to make is that if you take offense at being classified as a pseudoscientific site then do not present your data in such a manner as to leave no other option available to the reader.
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:28 PM #4 (permalink)
Harte
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarLord
I too am a believer of Atlantis, I am waiting for the Land it once rested on to rise from the Sea where it sank some 15,000 years ago. Until then we might have a problem getting Harte to accept it as anything but a Myth.
Starlord,
I won't even concede the idea that Atlantis is a myth, at least not in the strictest sense of the word. By that I mean it doesn't appear at all in any form in any mythology.
I suppose you could consider it to be a modern myth, if you wished, given all the embellishments the story has suffered in modern hands, beginning with Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists, through Edgar Cayce and his fantasies, and up to Hancock, Cremo and the other modern hucksters.
But ignoring all that, I'll have to say that even if Atlantis was a continent and was destroyed and did sink under the ocean, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to rise back up! That scenario is extremely doubtful, even if Atlantis was real.
Harte
__________________
"... we must be agnostic about the theory that there is a teapot in orbit around the planet Pluto. We can't disprove it. But that doesn't mean that the theory there is a teapot is on level terms with the theory that there isn't."
Richard Dawkins
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:46 PM #5 (permalink)
Harte
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Originally Posted by gl100
...While your site is nicely laid out, informative and entertaining, I have to agree with Harte regarding the overall nature of the material presented. The material that you cover is, by its very nature, mysterious and certainly interesting. It is not, in any way, outside the realm of scientific explanation. It is however, open to the interpretations of those not willing to the conventional explanations.
...Consider you out of place artifacts (OOP’s) gallery. You state that you present both sides of the story and let the reader decide. Not quite true. You present some very interesting pictures and add some provocative descriptions. What you don’t present are the known scientific explanation for these artifacts. For example:
The hammer encased in 100 million year old stone – An astounding fossil? Not really. The wooden shaft of the hammer shows no fossilization. Fossilization would have taken place over millions of years, concretion on the other hand could have occurred in less than ten.
The fact that the stone was found in 100 million year old strata does not make it or the hammer 100 million years old. Concretion can occur at any level of strata.
...I could go on about toy gliders, stylized birds and stingrays being depicted as flying machines or even the ancient Egyptian air force but suffice it to say, there are valid, well researched explanations and I’m sure Harte is far more capable than I to address these and all of the other artifacts.
The point I’m trying to make is that if you take offense at being classified as a pseudoscientific site then do not present your data in such a manner as to leave no other option available to the reader.
GL,
Very well put. I have already addressed several of these "Out of Place Artifacts" here at Paranormalis (also at ATS,) so a quick search should turn up those posts. I'm not going into it again in this thread. Look for discussions of these and other "OOPArts" in an upcoming series I'm planning for the content (blog) page.
In the meantime, if anyone is curious right now and just can't wait, here's Catchpenny's Ancient Egypt site, which fully debunks a few of these so-called "OOPArts":
Click here if you care about the truth.
Sorry to make the link sound so dramatic. But that's nothing compared to the "passion" these pseudoscientists profess when they are confronted with reality!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea
No-right-click is a feature available on the net that I have never supported and in the Ancient Photo Gallery it was part of the design and not something I added. The script for that has been found and removed
Sea,
I stand by what I said earlier, but I'm glad to see the above about your pics. I also want to say that it is my opinion that "alternate history" discussions do serve a purpose. Were it not for fraudulent hucksters like Erich von Daniken, I wouldn't have even a tenth of my current knowledge of archaeology. Pseudoscience can sometimes provide a springboard to further research by laymen such as myself.
Regarding your opinions on these matters, let me just say I've been there. But I'm not there anymore, primarily due to my own research into some of the "mysterious" areas you display at your site.
Harte
__________________
"... we must be agnostic about the theory that there is a teapot in orbit around the planet Pluto. We can't disprove it. But that doesn't mean that the theory there is a teapot is on level terms with the theory that there isn't."
Richard Dawkins
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:58 PM #6 (permalink)
StarLord
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Cayce sure screwed up on the "Chambers" under the Sphinx. Maybe they were made of Quantum Sandstone and won't appear until the time is right.
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:00 PM #7 (permalink)
gl100
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Yep. I'm guessing it's going to be during the season of the witch.
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:08 PM #8 (permalink)
StarLord
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Yes but Which One?
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:13 PM #9 (permalink)
gl100
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
The one where you've got to pick up every stitch and rabbits are running in the ditch.
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:38 PM #10 (permalink)
StarLord
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Close, but no Tiparillo, Which, Witch?
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A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
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View Poll Results: Pseudoscience or Logical Questioning
Site is all crazy nonsence... 2 40.00%
Good representation of different views and ideas... 3 60.00%
Interesting but not sure either way.... 0 0%
No clue and don't care... 0 0%
voters: 5. you may not vote on this poll
Reply
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:06 AM #1 (permalink)
Sea
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Posts: 3
Default A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Here's a link to a new site that only recently came online:
http://www.seapyramid.org/photos - Harte
Actually the site has been online since 2001 under the domain of seapyramid.net. In March of this year it was changed tothe new domain URL - Atlantis & Ancient Civilizations - due to the bad practices of an unethical person. Last month the site received almost 900k hits and I have not promoted traffic from the other domain. The site was just 'refound' that quickly by itself.
Quote:
They have a large collection of photos of all sorts of ancient artifacts, including the silly ones like the Egyptian helicopter, the Dropa stones, the "Alien hybrid" skulls, etc. And they plan to enlarge.
Also included are photos of ancient monuments, relief carvings, tombs - all good stuff for anyone interested in the ancient world or archaeology in general. - Harte
At present there are now over 1000 images available for viewing, download and e-cards. More will be added as time permits but working on other sections of the site at the moment. The web site itself is currently over 2500 pages.
Quote:
The site is somewhat loopy, not scientific, so bring your grain of salt. There is a forum there. The gallery is one part of a larger pseudoarchaeology site. - Harte
While I am an Atlantis believer, I would not consider the site psuedoscience. Articles are researched and designed not to give the answers but to provide a variety of theories and possibilities. Mainsteam theories AND strange ones are questioned. It is my belief that we do NOT know the true answers and only by questioning all the ideas might we actually figure something out. I try to leave the readers with information, ideas and possibilities so that they might find the answers which, to them, promote a true possibility.
Examing, questioning and new thought are all foundations in true science for if we did none of those we would still be accepting that the world was flat and flight impossible. If the answers that are currently accepted by mainstream science about ancient history were correct we would not have the hundreds of conflicting instances that don't 'fit in' and we can not explain. Therefore mainstream science is not correct and we must continue to look at all possibilities and question them all.
Actually a number of respected professionals in the archaeology field routinely visit A&AC and correspond with me on occassion when they have something new of interest or something they want to bring to my attention. It is because of the views I show and the questioning done on A&AC that I have received the attention of those in the field. Whether they agree with my questing or not, they respect the fact that I do question and those questions help them to think 'out side the box' when they are needing a fresh outlook on a situation. NBC also contacted me concerning their new documentary scheduled to air next month on Atlantis and featuring the new research at Bimini. The site is also used by 3 public schools to my knowledge (maybe more, who knows) as a teaching tool.
Yes we do have a forum, though the current one is less then a month old due to recent changes in format. The site also is syndicated now and there are methods in place now that allow for comments/discussion on the articles, news and all indiviually besides the forum. We also now have a monthly newsletter available on-line or by e-mail which highlights the months news, interesting web sites and more. The current news headlines from a number of sources are available and updated as those agencies post them. Local weather is also available for members.
Quote:
I saved one photo of a painting of Horus from the tomb of the son of Ramses IX. But the filesize was too big to post, and the site won't let you steal the thumbs. - Harte
No-right-click is a feature available on the net that I have never supported and in the Ancient Photo Gallery it was part of the design and not something I added. The script for that has been found and removed
Quote:
I haven't explored the entire gallery yet, but what I've seen looks promising. Some of you die hard Atlantis Freaks out there will really enjoy it, I think. -Harte
I do appreciate the recommendation and did not come here just to bitch. I have actually been watching this post since about a week after you started the thread on my gallery. it was easy to find with the hits it was producing on my web stats. I just thought it was time to let a few facts about A&AC be known that you had missed or wasn't aware of in your post.
Sea
__________________
Atlantis & Ancient Civilizations
"The only stupid question is the question never asked!"
Last edited by Sea : 06-28-2006 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 06-28-2006, 12:45 PM #2 (permalink)
StarLord
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
I too am a believer of Atlantis, I am waiting for the Land it once rested on to rise from the Sea where it sank some 15,000 years ago. Until then we might have a problem getting Harte to accept it as anything but a Myth.
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:24 PM #3 (permalink)
gl100
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 357
Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarLord
I too am a believer of Atlantis, I am waiting for the Land it once rested on to rise from the Sea where it sank some 15,000 years ago. Until then we might have a problem getting Harte to accept it as anything but a Myth.
Donovan? Is that you? Is Jennifer Juniper with you or is she out trying to catch the wind with Lalena?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea
Articles are researched and designed not to give the answers but to provide a variety of theories and possibilities. Mainsteam theories AND strange ones are questioned. It is my belief that we do NOT know the true answers and only by questioning all the ideas might we actually figure something out. I try to leave the readers with information, ideas and possibilities so that they might find the answers which, to them, promote a true possibility.
You appear to take offense to your site being labeled as pseudoscientific. By definition, pseudoscience is a methodology whereby theories, many based on logical fallacies, are presented in a scientific manner but lack scientific methods and foundation.
While your site is nicely laid out, informative and entertaining, I have to agree with Harte regarding the overall nature of the material presented. The material that you cover is, by its very nature, mysterious and certainly interesting. It is not, in any way, outside the realm of scientific explanation. It is however, open to the interpretations of those not willing to the conventional explanations.
Any and all information regarding Atlantis that is not discussed by Plato IS pure conjecture based on the speculations of others. Speculations not research. There is no written account of Atlantis found in any civilization’s records. None. That is the scientific position. The pseudoscientific position relies on conjecture, leaps of logic and Edgar Cayce for its data about Atlantis. Is any of it verifiable? No. Is it pseudoscientific? Partially. Some of it is just pure nonsense.
Consider you out of place artifacts (OOP’s) gallery. You state that you present both sides of the story and let the reader decide. Not quite true. You present some very interesting pictures and add some provocative descriptions. What you don’t present are the known scientific explanation for these artifacts. For example:
The hammer encased in 100 million year old stone – An astounding fossil? Not really. The wooden shaft of the hammer shows no fossilization. Fossilization would have taken place over millions of years, concretion on the other hand could have occurred in less than ten.
The fact that the stone was found in 100 million year old strata does not make it or the hammer 100 million years old. Concretion can occur at any level of strata.
This is the same principle as your spark plug, better known as the Coso Artifact. You claim very little is known. Not so. It is known to be a 1920’s sparkplug encased in stone. What makes it a unique artifact is the pseudoscientific conjecture that it is encased in a geode that would have taken thousands of years to form. The problem is that it is not encased in a geode.
I could go on about toy gliders, stylized birds and stingrays being depicted as flying machines or even the ancient Egyptian air force but suffice it to say, there are valid, well researched explanations and I’m sure Harte is far more capable than I to address these and all of the other artifacts.
The point I’m trying to make is that if you take offense at being classified as a pseudoscientific site then do not present your data in such a manner as to leave no other option available to the reader.
gl100 is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 01:28 PM #4 (permalink)
Harte
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarLord
I too am a believer of Atlantis, I am waiting for the Land it once rested on to rise from the Sea where it sank some 15,000 years ago. Until then we might have a problem getting Harte to accept it as anything but a Myth.
Starlord,
I won't even concede the idea that Atlantis is a myth, at least not in the strictest sense of the word. By that I mean it doesn't appear at all in any form in any mythology.
I suppose you could consider it to be a modern myth, if you wished, given all the embellishments the story has suffered in modern hands, beginning with Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists, through Edgar Cayce and his fantasies, and up to Hancock, Cremo and the other modern hucksters.
But ignoring all that, I'll have to say that even if Atlantis was a continent and was destroyed and did sink under the ocean, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to rise back up! That scenario is extremely doubtful, even if Atlantis was real.
Harte
__________________
"... we must be agnostic about the theory that there is a teapot in orbit around the planet Pluto. We can't disprove it. But that doesn't mean that the theory there is a teapot is on level terms with the theory that there isn't."
Richard Dawkins
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:46 PM #5 (permalink)
Harte
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Quote:
Originally Posted by gl100
...While your site is nicely laid out, informative and entertaining, I have to agree with Harte regarding the overall nature of the material presented. The material that you cover is, by its very nature, mysterious and certainly interesting. It is not, in any way, outside the realm of scientific explanation. It is however, open to the interpretations of those not willing to the conventional explanations.
...Consider you out of place artifacts (OOP’s) gallery. You state that you present both sides of the story and let the reader decide. Not quite true. You present some very interesting pictures and add some provocative descriptions. What you don’t present are the known scientific explanation for these artifacts. For example:
The hammer encased in 100 million year old stone – An astounding fossil? Not really. The wooden shaft of the hammer shows no fossilization. Fossilization would have taken place over millions of years, concretion on the other hand could have occurred in less than ten.
The fact that the stone was found in 100 million year old strata does not make it or the hammer 100 million years old. Concretion can occur at any level of strata.
...I could go on about toy gliders, stylized birds and stingrays being depicted as flying machines or even the ancient Egyptian air force but suffice it to say, there are valid, well researched explanations and I’m sure Harte is far more capable than I to address these and all of the other artifacts.
The point I’m trying to make is that if you take offense at being classified as a pseudoscientific site then do not present your data in such a manner as to leave no other option available to the reader.
GL,
Very well put. I have already addressed several of these "Out of Place Artifacts" here at Paranormalis (also at ATS,) so a quick search should turn up those posts. I'm not going into it again in this thread. Look for discussions of these and other "OOPArts" in an upcoming series I'm planning for the content (blog) page.
In the meantime, if anyone is curious right now and just can't wait, here's Catchpenny's Ancient Egypt site, which fully debunks a few of these so-called "OOPArts":
Click here if you care about the truth.
Sorry to make the link sound so dramatic. But that's nothing compared to the "passion" these pseudoscientists profess when they are confronted with reality!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea
No-right-click is a feature available on the net that I have never supported and in the Ancient Photo Gallery it was part of the design and not something I added. The script for that has been found and removed
Sea,
I stand by what I said earlier, but I'm glad to see the above about your pics. I also want to say that it is my opinion that "alternate history" discussions do serve a purpose. Were it not for fraudulent hucksters like Erich von Daniken, I wouldn't have even a tenth of my current knowledge of archaeology. Pseudoscience can sometimes provide a springboard to further research by laymen such as myself.
Regarding your opinions on these matters, let me just say I've been there. But I'm not there anymore, primarily due to my own research into some of the "mysterious" areas you display at your site.
Harte
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:58 PM #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Cayce sure screwed up on the "Chambers" under the Sphinx. Maybe they were made of Quantum Sandstone and won't appear until the time is right.
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:00 PM #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Yep. I'm guessing it's going to be during the season of the witch.
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:08 PM #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Yes but Which One?
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:13 PM #9 (permalink)
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The one where you've got to pick up every stitch and rabbits are running in the ditch.
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:38 PM #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: A&AC - Pseudoscience Harte? ...Not Quite
Close, but no Tiparillo, Which, Witch?
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