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Patriot Act type legislation
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<blockquote data-quote="Judge Bean" data-source="post: 15037" data-attributes="member: 42"><p><strong>Re: Patriot Act type legislation</strong></p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div></p><p> </p><p>Then you have to decide whether to give up the snitch to convict the defendant.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I mean the scrutiny and review offered by an appeal. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>The prosecutor represents the government. The government is the side that requires secrecy. The prosecutor and the government cannot have the secrecy they want and still work for the Constitution.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Imagine that you are the defense attorney. For the jury, you may want to have someone with a criminal record to help decide the fate of someone facing criminal charges. You may want someone who doesn't fit the "norm" of whatever mental stability is, or a jury full of people with potential understanding of the defendant's "alleged position." I agree that you would not want any bigots, but you may not want anyone opposed to <em>any</em> particular religious or ethnic group. Strong bigoted positions on a politics-religion mix is like tossing a grenade into the jury room.</p><p> </p><p>The attorney's honor is irrelevant. The alleged needs of the State to keep sources secret can be overcome by the defendant's right to a fair trial.</p><p> </p><p>But let's be realistic: if the Bush administration has its way, these will soon be specious, carping arguments. They want to eliminate the legislative and judicial branches and set themselves up as the combination judge, jury, and executioner/torturer-- what I like to call the <em>Inquisition Combo</em>. No need to worry! These are <em>terrorists</em>, just <em>terrorists</em>, right?</p><p> </p><p>Oh, wait a second. I see here that my city has been named by the Justice Department as one of only five in the nation needing an "expansion of freedom" and suffering from having "lost all hope." Fresno is Iraq West! So we are to receive a troop allotment-- DEA, ATF and FBI agents are coming to town to fight the "domestic terrorists" (so-called by the local law enforcement).</p><p> </p><p>Who do you suppose these insurgent fighters are, who must be engaged in urban combat by federal agents in my neighborhood?</p><p> </p><p>Youth gangs.</p><p> </p><p>Follow the bouncing red dot. Enemy Combatants not entitled to rights. Fight terrorists to spread freedom. Deprive detainees of their liberty rights to spread freedom. Youth gangs are domestic terrorists. Round up citizens and put them in camps indefinitely at "the discretion of the military" (to paraphrase a lawyer arguing for indefinite detention of uncharged suspects).</p><p> </p><p>Sealed evidence, huh? How about a sealed Constitution?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Judge Bean, post: 15037, member: 42"] [b]Re: Patriot Act type legislation[/b] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div> Then you have to decide whether to give up the snitch to convict the defendant. I mean the scrutiny and review offered by an appeal. The prosecutor represents the government. The government is the side that requires secrecy. The prosecutor and the government cannot have the secrecy they want and still work for the Constitution. Imagine that you are the defense attorney. For the jury, you may want to have someone with a criminal record to help decide the fate of someone facing criminal charges. You may want someone who doesn't fit the "norm" of whatever mental stability is, or a jury full of people with potential understanding of the defendant's "alleged position." I agree that you would not want any bigots, but you may not want anyone opposed to [i]any[/i] particular religious or ethnic group. Strong bigoted positions on a politics-religion mix is like tossing a grenade into the jury room. The attorney's honor is irrelevant. The alleged needs of the State to keep sources secret can be overcome by the defendant's right to a fair trial. But let's be realistic: if the Bush administration has its way, these will soon be specious, carping arguments. They want to eliminate the legislative and judicial branches and set themselves up as the combination judge, jury, and executioner/torturer-- what I like to call the [i]Inquisition Combo[/i]. No need to worry! These are [i]terrorists[/i], just [i]terrorists[/i], right? Oh, wait a second. I see here that my city has been named by the Justice Department as one of only five in the nation needing an "expansion of freedom" and suffering from having "lost all hope." Fresno is Iraq West! So we are to receive a troop allotment-- DEA, ATF and FBI agents are coming to town to fight the "domestic terrorists" (so-called by the local law enforcement). Who do you suppose these insurgent fighters are, who must be engaged in urban combat by federal agents in my neighborhood? Youth gangs. Follow the bouncing red dot. Enemy Combatants not entitled to rights. Fight terrorists to spread freedom. Deprive detainees of their liberty rights to spread freedom. Youth gangs are domestic terrorists. Round up citizens and put them in camps indefinitely at "the discretion of the military" (to paraphrase a lawyer arguing for indefinite detention of uncharged suspects). Sealed evidence, huh? How about a sealed Constitution? [/QUOTE]
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