Patriot Act type legislation

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CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
Patriot Act type legislation

Our esteemed "leaders" keep jammin' up the powers of the alphabet organizations of the DHS. Don't it just warm the cockles of you heart? Keeping us safe and all, while acquiring more power than is allowed by the Constitution. According to CIA and Pentagon reports released this week, so far the WOT has made us less safe from terrorists, so I guess they have to take away more of our rights so they can protect us, so we can be less safe, so they can take away more of our rights to protect us, so we can be less safe, so they can... WTF is a going on here?

Lest my rant continue, here's the link and article.

Measure Expands Police Powers

Measure Expands Police Powers
Intelligence Bill Includes Disputed Anti-Terror Moves

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 10, 2004; Page A01

The intelligence package that Congress approved this week includes a series of little-noticed measures that would broaden the government's power to conduct terrorism investigations, including provisions to loosen standards for FBI surveillance warrants and allow the Justice Department to more easily detain suspects without bail.

Other law-enforcement-related measures in the bill -- expected to be signed by President Bush next week -- include an expansion of the criteria that constitute \"material support\" to terrorist groups and the ability to share U.S. grand jury information with foreign governments in urgent terrorism cases.

These and other changes designed to strengthen federal counterterrorism programs have long been sought by the Bush administration and the Justice Department but have languished in Congress, in part because of opposition from civil liberties advocates.

Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo characterized the measures as \"common-sense reforms aimed at preventing terrorist attacks.\"

\"We are very pleased that the Congress agreed with us that despite having passed the Patriot Act right after 9/11, we still had work to do,\" Corallo said, referring to the anti-terrorism legislation approved in October 2001. \"We have to constantly look at the laws and look at our vulnerabilities and make sure we are doing everything we can within the law to protect the American people.\"

But civil liberties advocates and some Democrats said the measures would do little to protect the public while further eroding constitutional protections for innocent people caught up in investigations.

Critics also say the proposed changes were overshadowed by the debate over other aspects of the bill, which puts in place many intelligence agency reforms proposed by the independent commission that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Some Democrats say they reluctantly approved the package because they favored the broader intelligence changes.

Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) said that while he voted for the bill because of its intelligence reforms, he opposed much of the expansion of law enforcement power. Most of it was not part of the Sept. 11 panel's recommendations.

\"I am troubled by some provisions that were added in conference that have nothing to do with reforming our intelligence network,\" Feingold said. He later added: \"This Justice Department has a record of abusing its detention powers post-9/11 and of making terrorism allegations that turn out to have no merit.\"

Charlie Mitchell, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said the law enforcement measures are \"most troubling in terms of the trend they represent.\" He added: \"They keep pushing and pushing without any attempt to review what they've done.\"

Congressional aides said most of the law enforcement measures were included as part of the original House proposal for intelligence reform, which also called for wide-ranging changes in border and immigration policies. Although some of the most controversial provisions were removed in House-Senate negotiations, several remained in the bill.

Some of the changes were originally part of a legislative draft drawn up by Justice prosecutors in 2002 as a proposed expansion of the USA Patriot Act, administration and congressional officials said. The draft, leaked to the media and dubbed \"Patriot II\" by critics, was never introduced as a bill in its entirety. But portions were introduced as stand-alone legislation.

As with parts of the original Patriot Act, some of the new powers would expire at the end of 2005 or 2006 unless Congress renewed them.

One key change is a provision in the new intelligence package that targets \"lone wolf\" terrorists not linked with established terrorist groups such as al Qaeda. In language similar to earlier Senate legislation, the bill would allow the FBI to obtain secret surveillance and search warrants of individuals without having to show a connection between the target of the warrant and a foreign government or terrorist group.

The provision is aimed squarely at avoiding the quandary FBI investigators faced in the weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks, when government lawyers haggled over whether they could link Zacarias Moussaoui to a terrorist group and legally search his belongings. Moussaoui has since been charged in connection with the attacks.

Officials said other parts of the bill are direct responses to setbacks in the courts, where prosecutors have lost cases because of disputes over previous legislative language. For example, the legislation tightens the definitions of material support to terrorists in response to California federal court rulings that found the statute underlying such cases to be unconstitutionally vague.

Other provisions in the bill include:

? Suspects in major terrorism crimes automatically would be denied bail unless they show they are not a danger or a flight risk. Advocates say the provision is modeled on similar rules for certain drug crimes, but Mitchell said it would increase the possibility of indefinite detention in alleged terrorism cases.

? Penalties would be increased for such crimes as harboring illegal immigrants, perpetrating a terrorist hoax, and possessing smallpox, anti-aircraft missile systems and radiological \"dirty\" bombs. The measure also is more explicit than current statutes in making it illegal to attend military-style training camps run by terrorist groups.

? Federal prosecutors would be allowed to share secret information obtained by grand juries with states or foreign governments to protect against terrorist attacks. German authorities, among others, have complained about difficulties obtaining information from the FBI and other U.S. agencies about foreign terrorist suspects.

Research editor Lucy Shackelford contributed to this report.

Yeah, I'm real excited about these new enforcement powers, uh, I mean how safe we're being kept.

Cary
 

PyRo99

Active Member
Messages
567
Patriot Act type legislation

Too Fun. Buscho just keeps making the moves. Next move they make is basically a checkmate. I mean, they've got basically the whole entire Nation wrapped around their fingers. Whats next? I mean, they really can get away with anything.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
Patriot Act type legislation

The measure also is more explicit than current statutes in making it illegal to attend military-style training camps run by terrorist groups.

This one is especially going to cause trouble depending on how they define terrorist group.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Patriot Act type legislation

To be honest, unless you happen to fit the bill of what and whom they are looking for, I don't see this as touching us very much. There are things in there that will certainly help LE types do their job so much more swiftly than before.

I do not wish to share my rights with any terorists that come to my homeland and wish to do harm.

If everybody had blond hair, blue eyes in the world, I'd say "hmm we have a potential problem here"

I am more concerned about REX 84 and it's permutations here in the US.
 

sosuemetoo

Active Member
Messages
723
Patriot Act type legislation

The media made this bill out to be "what the 9/11 families" wanted. Then, I heard earlier this week, that many of the families did not agree with this bill.

Reading this article makes me realize that once again, our rights are being taken away.

There's nothing we can do, except to accept our fate I guess.

Mom
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Patriot Act type legislation

Darkwolf,

you think this is a ploy to eradicate our midwestern "survivalists" and their camps?
 

PyRo99

Active Member
Messages
567
Patriot Act type legislation

They still have yet too define what a terrorist is. That word, is broadend. But, it has become targeted to "Muslim Extremists". But, the US government has also labeled the US Citizens as terrorists as well I guess.

The Patriot Act, was meant to go after the terrorists, and yet it came back to bite the US citizens.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
Patriot Act type legislation

Darkwolf,

you think this is a ploy to eradicate our midwestern \"survivalists\" and their camps?



Yep, The lack of a propper definition for terrorist leaves this open to use on just about anybody. If it were just for use against forign terrorists, then it woulden't be nessisary. We already have a right to treat forign military formations on our soil with extreme prejiduce. The military would simply be used to take care of the invaders, and that would be that. I doubt that there are any AQ training camps on our soil. It would be easier for them to train their people somwhere else, and infaltrate them. Military training after all is not quiet, and I think that somone would make the connection if there were a bunch of Arabs going onto a peice of property where you can hear gunfire all the time.
This legislation makes it illeagal to train with any "terrorist" group. That could mean that if a member of ELF or something is a member of the local paintball club, the rest of the club can be arrested.
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
Re: Patriot Act type legislation

Here's a very interesting article on the Jose Padilla case. For those of you who are unfamiliar, Padilla is an American citizen, who was arrested at the Chicago O'Hare airport. He is suspected of being trained to build and detonate a "dirty bomb" in the Mid East. He is further suspected of returning to the U.S. to carry out an attack on U.S. soil using same. He has been held for over three years without being charged, tried or allowed legal counsel. The Bush admin. is holding him as an "enemy combatant" which puts him in a special category under the Patriot Act where his U.S. citizen rights can be denied. The U.S. District Court ruled that the federal govt. basically had to try Padilla or let him go. The Fed's are appealling. This is one you want to watch closely.

Cary

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0503a.asp

[font=Times,Times New Roman]Jacob Hornberger is founder and president of The ?Future of Freedom Foundation. Send him <a href=\'mailto:[email protected]\'>email</a>. [/font]

?
 

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