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<blockquote data-quote="dimension-1hacker" data-source="post: 200193" data-attributes="member: 11791"><p>Argument There is no evidence to the contrary regarding the existence of objective reality, and Occam's Razor suggests we ought to accept it because it is the simplest possible explanation for reality.</p><p></p><p>Objection If a particle or set of particles in quantum physics can be in 2 different contradictory states at the same time, as in the Schrödinger's cat paradox, that could be considered evidence to the contrary.</p><p>Quantum physics might seem contradictory, and in fact it is with traditional logic, but if one uses non-commutative quantum logic, which theoretical physicists have developed and which is the same as traditional logic other than abandoning the law of commutivaty, there are not any contradictions in it at all.</p><p>Objection Occam's Razor is not necessarily true, it is just a general guideline to help people guess the most likely answer to a question. It is still wrong sometimes.</p><p>Yes, but Occam's Razor is true more often than not, and there is no evidence of Occam's Razor being incorrect in this specific instance regarding objective reality being true.</p><p>Argument The theory that we all exist in an objective reality is the best theory anyone has ever come up with to describe the conditions in which we appear to exist, so unless anyone comes up with a better theory we should stick with it.</p><p>Objection We don't necessarily need to assume anything at all regarding reality and whether or not an objective reality exists... we can remain agnostic on the subject until there is sufficient evidence to prove things one way or the other.</p><p>Being agnostic on the subject is not a position against the existence of objective reality, but instead a neutral position that doesn't take either side in the argument. I have not entirely made up my mind 100% sure either way on objective reality myself, but I am about 99% sure that objective reality exists. I could call myself agnostic on the subject too, but those of us who are agnostic on the subject ought to lean in favor of whatever seems to be the most probable explanation.</p><p>Argument All realities exist, including both objective and subjective realities, which exist as parallel realities as a kind of multiverse. In other words, the philosophy of modal realism is correct.</p><p>Objection Modal realism is too radical of a multiverse theory to take seriously. It proposes that all proposed fictional worlds (not just proposed real worlds) actually exist.</p><p>Objection This is an attempt to shame people into not believing the argument. Sometimes radical viewpoints turn out to be true.</p><p>Objective reality does not exist[edit | edit source]</p><p>Argument The existence of an objective reality has never been proven, and all of what we think of reality could just be something similar to the Matrix or a computer simulation or we could all just be characters in someone's dream.</p><p>Objection Those are all unlikely scenarios which are similarly unproven, and the most likely scenario that makes the most sense is that there is an objective reality.</p><p>There are multiple possible scenarios in which objective reality is wrong, and only one in which it is correct. If we assign an equal level of probability to each one, objective reality is actually highly unlikely.</p><p>There is no rational basis for assigning an equal level of probability to the idea that we are all living in the Matrix just like in that movie and the idea that we all actually exist in one single objective reality. Furthermore, in the Matrix, the Matrix itself exists within a larger reality that actually is objective, and in that reality, the people who exist in the Matrix all have physical bodies hooked up to the Matrix, so even if the Matrix turned out to be real, we would still be living in an objective reality.</p><p>Yes but the Matrix is a work of fiction, so actually, people living in the Matrix, even if they have physical bodies outside of the Matrix, have those in a fictional world, not the real world.</p><p>Argument Reality nowadays is just too ridiculous to be true. Too many practically unbelievable things keep being reported as factual.</p><p>Objection This reflects a failure of imagination on the part of the human mind to understand and accept objective reality. It does not disprove objective reality. As the saying goes, "Truth is stranger than fiction." This would seem to indicate that, if reality seems incredibly ridiculous and weird, it probably really is real, since it is many times weirder than anything the limited capacity of the human imagination could possibly think up using only the creativity of a single finite mortal human mind.</p><p>Multiple people can work together to create a very intricate and detailed narrative that runs counter to reality. Who is to say that the most popular narrative used to describe what people call "objective reality" is not similarly false, with its elaborate complexity and absurdity the result of the cooperation of many people?</p><p>There is a major qualitative difference between double-blind peer-reviewed scientific studies with reproducible results and conspiracy theories or tall tales that are simply made up. Your argument deliberately ignores this in order to equate the two and dismiss both of them.</p><p>Argument We all live in our own subjective realities. The human mind is not capable of being truly objective. Therefore, the entire idea of a single objective reality is purely speculative, an assumption that, while popular, is not necessary.</p><p>Objection Since our realities all interact and we are able to independently observe the same things and do experiments that have reproducible results, clearly we are all part of the same reality.</p><p>Not necessarily, you could be a figment of my imagination, or we could both be figments of somebody else's imagination, or maybe nobody exists at all and everything is imaginary.</p><p>The human mind is not creative enough to imagine the reality we find ourselves in. Furthermore, as far as everything being imaginary, as Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dimension-1hacker, post: 200193, member: 11791"] Argument There is no evidence to the contrary regarding the existence of objective reality, and Occam's Razor suggests we ought to accept it because it is the simplest possible explanation for reality. Objection If a particle or set of particles in quantum physics can be in 2 different contradictory states at the same time, as in the Schrödinger's cat paradox, that could be considered evidence to the contrary. Quantum physics might seem contradictory, and in fact it is with traditional logic, but if one uses non-commutative quantum logic, which theoretical physicists have developed and which is the same as traditional logic other than abandoning the law of commutivaty, there are not any contradictions in it at all. Objection Occam's Razor is not necessarily true, it is just a general guideline to help people guess the most likely answer to a question. It is still wrong sometimes. Yes, but Occam's Razor is true more often than not, and there is no evidence of Occam's Razor being incorrect in this specific instance regarding objective reality being true. Argument The theory that we all exist in an objective reality is the best theory anyone has ever come up with to describe the conditions in which we appear to exist, so unless anyone comes up with a better theory we should stick with it. Objection We don't necessarily need to assume anything at all regarding reality and whether or not an objective reality exists... we can remain agnostic on the subject until there is sufficient evidence to prove things one way or the other. Being agnostic on the subject is not a position against the existence of objective reality, but instead a neutral position that doesn't take either side in the argument. I have not entirely made up my mind 100% sure either way on objective reality myself, but I am about 99% sure that objective reality exists. I could call myself agnostic on the subject too, but those of us who are agnostic on the subject ought to lean in favor of whatever seems to be the most probable explanation. Argument All realities exist, including both objective and subjective realities, which exist as parallel realities as a kind of multiverse. In other words, the philosophy of modal realism is correct. Objection Modal realism is too radical of a multiverse theory to take seriously. It proposes that all proposed fictional worlds (not just proposed real worlds) actually exist. Objection This is an attempt to shame people into not believing the argument. Sometimes radical viewpoints turn out to be true. Objective reality does not exist[edit | edit source] Argument The existence of an objective reality has never been proven, and all of what we think of reality could just be something similar to the Matrix or a computer simulation or we could all just be characters in someone's dream. Objection Those are all unlikely scenarios which are similarly unproven, and the most likely scenario that makes the most sense is that there is an objective reality. There are multiple possible scenarios in which objective reality is wrong, and only one in which it is correct. If we assign an equal level of probability to each one, objective reality is actually highly unlikely. There is no rational basis for assigning an equal level of probability to the idea that we are all living in the Matrix just like in that movie and the idea that we all actually exist in one single objective reality. Furthermore, in the Matrix, the Matrix itself exists within a larger reality that actually is objective, and in that reality, the people who exist in the Matrix all have physical bodies hooked up to the Matrix, so even if the Matrix turned out to be real, we would still be living in an objective reality. Yes but the Matrix is a work of fiction, so actually, people living in the Matrix, even if they have physical bodies outside of the Matrix, have those in a fictional world, not the real world. Argument Reality nowadays is just too ridiculous to be true. Too many practically unbelievable things keep being reported as factual. Objection This reflects a failure of imagination on the part of the human mind to understand and accept objective reality. It does not disprove objective reality. As the saying goes, "Truth is stranger than fiction." This would seem to indicate that, if reality seems incredibly ridiculous and weird, it probably really is real, since it is many times weirder than anything the limited capacity of the human imagination could possibly think up using only the creativity of a single finite mortal human mind. Multiple people can work together to create a very intricate and detailed narrative that runs counter to reality. Who is to say that the most popular narrative used to describe what people call "objective reality" is not similarly false, with its elaborate complexity and absurdity the result of the cooperation of many people? There is a major qualitative difference between double-blind peer-reviewed scientific studies with reproducible results and conspiracy theories or tall tales that are simply made up. Your argument deliberately ignores this in order to equate the two and dismiss both of them. Argument We all live in our own subjective realities. The human mind is not capable of being truly objective. Therefore, the entire idea of a single objective reality is purely speculative, an assumption that, while popular, is not necessary. Objection Since our realities all interact and we are able to independently observe the same things and do experiments that have reproducible results, clearly we are all part of the same reality. Not necessarily, you could be a figment of my imagination, or we could both be figments of somebody else's imagination, or maybe nobody exists at all and everything is imaginary. The human mind is not creative enough to imagine the reality we find ourselves in. Furthermore, as far as everything being imaginary, as Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am." [/QUOTE]
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