Terror in the Skies, Again?

J

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Terror in the Skies, Again?

Originally posted by Phoenix@Jul 25 2004, 03:36 AM
I think the fact that there was a lingering sense that we should have removed the threat that Sadam represented the first time has much to do with the war in Iraq.

We knew Iraq was not the end all and be all of terrorism or dictatorship.

I do have one question.

Were sanctions lifted on Iraq?
​
Click to expand...

Forgot all about the sanctions. And the "no fly" zone. Maybe that means that we were in a protracted, semicomatose state of war with Iraq for over a decade. Maybe it means, also, that we've been in a state of war with Iran since 1979-- I guess that taking an entire diplomatic mission hostage is an act of war. And come to think of it, Cuba's been on embargo since, what, 1961? Maybe we should just be safe and declare ourselves at war with everyone and anyone, including any suspicious American citizens-- our enemies are everywhere and nowhere...

You wrecked whose marriage?
 
A

Anoah

Member
Messages
201
Terror in the Skies, Again?

paranoid

I don't think anyone has posted this yet but this is an article from snopes.com (rumours) that discusses the paranoid freak behind the terror in the skies article.
 
J

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Terror in the Skies, Again?

Thank you for posting the article. I guess you had to be there, and it explains why there wasn't a general uprising by passengers to stop the suspects.

The thing that bothers me is the so-called need for anonymity by the marshals that would tend to stifle anyone who might raise an alarm; after all, that one person may be the only one who noticed something odd. Are the marshals waiting for a general consensus of opinion about the threat, or only until they themselves are satisfied that it's a real threat?
 
P

Phoenix

Active Member
Messages
631
Terror in the Skies, Again?

In case any one missed the link that Anoah missed and that was talked about before. Here it is.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp
Claim: ?Reporter encounters terrorists on airline flight who are making a dry run at assembling a bomb on-board.

Status: ?False.

Example: ?[Jacobsen, 2004]



On June 29, 2004, at 12:28 p.m., I flew on Northwest Airlines flight #327 from Detroit to Los Angeles with my husband and our young son. Also on our flight were 14 Middle Eastern men between the ages of approximately 20 and 50 years old. What I experienced during that flight has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats.

On that Tuesday, our journey began uneventfully. Starting out that morning in Providence, Rhode Island, we went through security screening, flew to Detroit, and passed the time waiting for our connecting flight to Los Angeles by shopping at the airport stores and eating lunch at an airport diner. With no second security check required in Detroit we headed to our gate and waited for the pre-boarding announcement. Standing near us, also waiting to pre-board, was a group of six Middle Eastern men. They were carrying blue passports with Arabic writing. Two men wore tracksuits with Arabic writing across the back. Two carried musical instrument cases - thin, flat, 18 long. One wore a yellow T-shirt and held a McDonald's bag. And the sixth man had a bad leg ? he wore an orthopedic shoe and limped. When the pre-boarding announcement was made, we handed our tickets to the Northwest Airlines agent, and walked down the jetway with the group of men directly behind us.

My four-year-old son was determined to wheel his carry-on bag himself, so I turned to the men behind me and said, You go ahead, this could be awhile. No, you go ahead, one of the men replied. He smiled pleasantly and extended his arm for me to pass. He was young, maybe late 20's and had a goatee. I thanked him and we boarded the plan.

Once on the plane, we took our seats in coach (seats 17A, 17B and 17C). The man with the yellow shirt and the McDonald's bag sat across the aisle from us (in seat 17E). The pleasant man with the goatee sat a few rows back and across the aisle from us (in seat 21E). The rest of the men were seated throughout the plane, and several made their way to the back.

[Rest of article here]


Origins: ?The \"Terror in the Skies, Again?\" article written by Annie Jacobsen and published on WomensWallStreet.com, in which she details her experience with passengers (whom she viewed as terrorists) on a 29 June 2004 flight from Detroit to Los Angeles, caused quite a stir, to say the least. That article contained a good deal of supposition, and a follow-up article, identified as an \"Opinion Piece,\" didn't offer much to validate author's assumptions.

As things turned out, although the events Ms. Jacobsen claims to have witnessed on her flight did occur (more or less), her interpretation of them (that they involved a group of terrrorists making a dry run for building a bomb in-flight) was erroneous. The men she observed on her flight were exactly what authorities told her they were: a group of Syrian musicians who had been hired to play at the Sycuan Casino & Resort near San Diego. Like any other group of passengers, the men in the musical ensemble talked to each other, moved around, ate food, and used the restrooms while the flight was in progress.

According to federal air marshals, Ms. Jacobsen \"overreacted\":
Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, \"overreacted,\" to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.

The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service.

\"The lady was overreacting,\" said the source. \"A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane.\"

The middle eastern men were identified by federal agents as a group of touring musicians travelling to a concert date at a casino, said Air Marshals spokesman Dave Adams.

Jacobsen wrote she became alarmed when the men made frequent trips to the lavatory, repeatedly opened and closed the overhead luggage compartments, and appeared to be signaling each other.

\"Initially it was brought to [the air marshals] attention by a passenger,\" Adams said, adding the agents had been watching the men and chose to stay undercover.

Jacobsen and her husband had a number of conversations with the flight attendants and gestured towards the men several times, the source said.

\"In concert with the flight crew, the decision was made to keep [the men] under surveillance since no terrorist or criminal acts were being perpetrated aboard the aircraft; they didn?t interfere with the flight crew,\" Adams said.

The air marshals did, however, check the bathrooms after the middle-eastern men had spent time inside, Adams said.

FBI agents met the plane when it landed in Los Angeles and the men were questioned, and Los Angeles field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it's significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.

\"We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals,\" she said. \"The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.\"

Federal agents later verified the musicians? story.

'We followed up with the casino,\" Adams said. A supervisor verified they were playing a concert. A second federal law enforcement source said the concert itself was monitored by an agent.

\"We also went to the hotel, determined they had checked into the hotel,\" Adams said. Each of the men were checked through a series of databases and watch-lists with negative results, he said.

The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen?s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.

Air marshals' only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger.

\"They have to be very cognizant of their surroundings,\" spokesman Adams confirmed, \"to make sure it isn't a ruse to try and pull them out of their cover.\"
Much has been made of the discovery that the Syrian musicians were supposedly traveling on \"expired visas.\" This claim stems from a misunderstanding of what the expiry date on a U.S. visa signifies.

The expiry date indicates the date after which that visa may no longer be used to travel to the U.S. A valid visa does not in itself grant the holder the right to enter the U.S., but merely authorizes the holder to seek permission to enter the country from a U.S. immigration officer. Only that officer can approve or deny entry, and it is that officer who will inscribe on that visitor's I-94 Arrival-Departure Record the date by which the traveler must leave the country. The same visa can be used by its rightful holder on multiple occasions (as in the case of someone who travels frequently), but each entry has to be approved by an immigration officer who will on each occasion make a determination as to when that visitor must leave.

Once the foreign traveler is in the U.S., the expiry date of his visa becomes unimportant ? all that matters is the exit date listed on that person's I-94, a card he carries with his passport while in the U.S. While it is true that an expired visa cannot be used to re-enter the U.S. (its holder must reapply or seek an extension), there is nothing wrong in and of itself with being in the U.S. past the expiry date listed on one's visa.

According to the U.S. Department of State's explanation of the visa process:

The Expiration Date for the visa should not be confused with the authorized length of your stay in the U.S., given to you by the U.S. immigration inspector at port-of-entry, on the Arrival-Departure Record, Form I-94, or I-94W for the Visa Waiver Program. The visa expiration date has nothing to do with the authorized length of your stay in the U.S. for any given visit.

Upon entering the U.S., an immigration officer of the Department of Homeland Security's, Border and Transportation Security, at the port of entry, places a small white card, Form I-94, Arrival-Departure Record in your passport. On this card, the U.S. immigration inspector records either a date or \"D/S\" (duration of status). In most cases, a specific date will be indicated on the Form I-94 (in the lower right-hand corner). If your I-94 contains a specific date, that is the date by which you must leave the United States. Some students, exchange program participants, and certain temporary workers (e.g., foreign diplomats) will be admitted for \"duration of status.\" If you have \"duration of status\" or \"D/S\" on your Form I-94, you may remain in the U.S. as long as you continue your course of studies or remain in your exchange program or qualifying employment.
Click to expand...

My summary is the following.
1) This was not disinformation put out by the Bush administration to bolster support for the "war on terror".
2) Even with the official report being played down as it is. This official kind of story matches what one expect from the cover story officers gave to the woman reporter. If the officers made an official report of musicians, the follow through of getting the same story out to the press would show consistency for the official perspective. I would also cause any diverging perspective from the clearance approved version to appear a bit nuts.
3) Never trust any aspect of anything involving spies.
4) Paul has a good point about the Air Marshal's main concern being their own anonymity. Makes you curious about what their complete list of priorities look like.
 
C

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,432
Terror in the Skies, Again?

I posted the same article that Anoah posted, except I posted on 7/23/04. I guess Anoah carries more weight around here than I do, or she is more popular. I'm hurt. (Just kidding gang) LOL.

Cary
 
A

Anoah

Member
Messages
201
Terror in the Skies, Again?

He he Cary, I certainly don't carry more weight around here than you. You are just too cool. I think this thread has just got very long. I should have looked harder so the same article didnt get posted twice. Duh on me. :lol: :blush:

Paul, do you think it is a good idea for air marshals to advertise who they are on every flight? I see your point but I think that preserving their anonymity is crucial. This who article is just strange strange strange.

Even if the guys were syrian musicians why did they act so weird the whole flight? If I were middle eastern I wouldnt do anything to draw any kind of attention to myself on a flight. Not in this environment. It is kind of like playing with fire isnt it?
 

Top