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<blockquote data-quote="Ayasano" data-source="post: 79374" data-attributes="member: 4804"><p>Ah, I wasn't disagreeing with the observed results of the thought experiment, I was disagreeing with the conclusions you drew from them. There is no upward force on the car, the observed weightlessness occurs because the motion of the car is carrying it in a straight line away from the Earth at a tangent, but gravity is pulling it down. It's easier to recognize when you're viewing from an inertial reference frame, instead of the car's rotating reference frame, where you appear to be moving in a straight line the entire time, when in fact you're following a curve.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's why it's called a thought experiment. I need you to imagine what would happen if gravity ceased to affect the car and describe the results back to me. It'll help formulate the problem so that we can both understand it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you removed the length part of the equation, it would be force at an angle, not torque.</p><p>[CODE]T = r.F.sin(theta)</p><p>vs.</p><p>T = F.sin(theta)</p><p></p><p>where:</p><p>T = Torque</p><p>r = distance</p><p>F = Force</p><p>theta = angle between force and object[/CODE]</p><p> </p><p></p><p>The reason the length is included is because the same amount of force will produce a larger torque if the distance from the pivot point is larger. That's how see-saws with differing lengths on each side work, or the idea of using a lever to move a heavy object.</p><p></p><p>You can test this at home, get a ruler and something to balance it on and objects of differing weights, and see how you can balance them when the ruler is offset left or right. Try balancing two objects of the same weight with the ruler offset vs. having the pivot in the middle. If you know the exact masses of the objects, you can even do the calculations yourself and see that they add up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're right about a single force only being able to produce linear motion. As far as all motion following curved paths, are you talking about the warping of spacetime by gravity or the idea that space itself loops around in the 4th dimension?</p><p></p><p>If we take the example of a probe in deep space that isn't accelerating, but moving at a constant velocity, I can only think of one force affecting it, gravity, albeit weakly at that distance. What are the other two? If it is accelerating via a rocket at the back, then the only forces would be gravity and the force of the propulsion, so what would the third force be there?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ayasano, post: 79374, member: 4804"] Ah, I wasn't disagreeing with the observed results of the thought experiment, I was disagreeing with the conclusions you drew from them. There is no upward force on the car, the observed weightlessness occurs because the motion of the car is carrying it in a straight line away from the Earth at a tangent, but gravity is pulling it down. It's easier to recognize when you're viewing from an inertial reference frame, instead of the car's rotating reference frame, where you appear to be moving in a straight line the entire time, when in fact you're following a curve. That's why it's called a thought experiment. I need you to imagine what would happen if gravity ceased to affect the car and describe the results back to me. It'll help formulate the problem so that we can both understand it. If you removed the length part of the equation, it would be force at an angle, not torque. [CODE]T = r.F.sin(theta) vs. T = F.sin(theta) where: T = Torque r = distance F = Force theta = angle between force and object[/CODE] The reason the length is included is because the same amount of force will produce a larger torque if the distance from the pivot point is larger. That's how see-saws with differing lengths on each side work, or the idea of using a lever to move a heavy object. You can test this at home, get a ruler and something to balance it on and objects of differing weights, and see how you can balance them when the ruler is offset left or right. Try balancing two objects of the same weight with the ruler offset vs. having the pivot in the middle. If you know the exact masses of the objects, you can even do the calculations yourself and see that they add up. You're right about a single force only being able to produce linear motion. As far as all motion following curved paths, are you talking about the warping of spacetime by gravity or the idea that space itself loops around in the 4th dimension? If we take the example of a probe in deep space that isn't accelerating, but moving at a constant velocity, I can only think of one force affecting it, gravity, albeit weakly at that distance. What are the other two? If it is accelerating via a rocket at the back, then the only forces would be gravity and the force of the propulsion, so what would the third force be there? [/QUOTE]
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