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Ralan post Nov 2 2004, 04:58 PM
Post #1
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Posts: 13
Joined: 27-September 04
From: England, UK
Member No.: 7
Snow Fire Watches
Good morning Malic. I apologize for any wrong impression you may be getting about us around here. Some of us actually do believe that time travel will be invented int he future and for that reason we can expect to meet time travelers in our present. Peragro may or may not have been a time traveler. We were never sure and we still aren't. As you may have noted, almost every TT we get is soon discarded.
Peragro happens to be one that actaully did everything he said he would do. That doesn't happen very often. He also disappeared when he said he was leaving and we have never seen or heard from him again. His thread has been getting bumped because of some investigation work John is doing on the pieces of the puzzle. Anyone could have been keeping up with the story recently and someone in Sprinfield Missouri with an interest in caves could have decided to have some fun with it.
I am not saying this is what you have done at all. What I am saying is that John is right in that you have provided less proof than Peragro did. Please do go get that payphone number and give it John. But you have to understand that all that proves is that you do have certain information that is not publicly available. It doesn't prove that you are not Peragro reincarnated. It doesn't prove that one of your friends or tenants didn't play Peragro and pick up stuff laying around your house to send to John - discarded ID's, cave locations, etc.
Based on what you have said, there is nothing in your story to say that Peragro wasn't who he said he was, doing what he said he was doing. Maybe we can come up with something that proves you actaully did know him, but we would still have to figure out if you are him or not or if you have anything that can actaully debunk him.
Please tell me what else of his you found when you were unpacking.
Thanks Malic. Peace!
Snow
Sosuemetoo
Okay Malic, please listen. Telling an admin or mod to shut up is inappropriate on this forum. Being snide with members will not make people believe you, nor will it make friends.
I am rather confused by all of this.
1. Malic says that he has had this e-mail address for over a year, John verified that it was begun just a few days before Peragro began posting. Are you both talking about the same e-mail address? Could Peragro have been using both the one that John speaks of and another that Malic speaks of?
2. Malic you did know the cave, but as John states and you yourself have stated, you are a cave-enthusiast and would know the private caves in the area. I think the name of the cave is a non issue in proving if you ever met Peragro.
3. Malic, the payphone number may not yeild anything. You stated he was in your home for 3 days. You dropped him at a payphone and he made a call to his dad. You said he stayed with you in late May. That payphone number may not be the same as the one he called John on. The dates do not match up.
Malic, why don't you just scan what you have, post it here on the forum. Oh and if you still have a pic of the cave, that would be good too.
"Mom"
John
1. We can both dispute this but the fact is you haven't proved this at all (in regards to how long you have had the account).
2. No you didn't know the cave. SFW gave you hints until you guessed it. Being from the area, I would be surprised if you didn't know the name of a well known cave. It'd be like someone telling me that a cave near huntsville with the initials of CC...Anyone around here would know Crystal Caverns. Had you mentioned the cave before SFW started giving you hints, it would've said alot in the way of credibility. Had you said something to the effect of, "and this dude was constantly asking me about X cave", you would have gotten brownie points. However, being that you guessed it due to hints given to you, it just means you know the area. You did claim to be a cave dweller as well. So, given this you should automatically know the surrounding caves in the local area. Does this mean you know Peragro because you know the caves in the area? Not at all. I know computers, ask me about a computer store in the area, I can guess the name as well given the initials. Does this mean I know Person X that may have gone there? As in your case no.
3. You get the phone number and we'll talk. This response above all shows your intentions and age, you want to be cuddled and accepted and I pose a threat. So you want me to "shut up". This is a juvenile response, one of an age much younger than you claim to be. And as for will I "shut up". The answer is no. I, being part of this community, am a partial owner and therefor entitled to speak freely within the context of the rules. Until such a time arises that I feel the need to sit idly by, quietly mind you, I will voice my insights when and where I chose to do so. I encourage every member of the community to do so and expect the gesture to be mutual.
John
QUOTE
QUOTE(Snow Fire Watches @ Nov 1 2004, 01:51 PM)
John - Please explain how you can know when Peragro opened the email account you are refering to?
Snow
First, Peragro said that he had set it up just for this occasion. Generally he was forthcoming on the tools he used. If he were borrowing a friends email account, he would have said so, regardless of how incriminating it would have made the confession.
Second, how ludicrous would you be to allow a complete stranger to use your personal email account? How little of thought would you have to be to allow a complete stranger to view all of your personal emails, etc and be able to send things out that would be directly traced back to you?
And finally, I emailed him over a span of time, not just 3 days, so he had the account before Malic credits him with it. Let us assume that since he was unsure of when exactly peragro stayed with him that it was on or after the dates Malic mentioned on the receipts and the length of time he stayed.:
Peragro's stay time (not weeks but days):
QUOTE
QUOTE
Malic3000 (5:49:56 PM): he only stayed with me for a few days and was always on the computer
Dates of receipts in the bag Malic, "claimed" he found:
QUOTE
QUOTE
Malic3000 (6:08:41 PM): may 27, 27, 27, 28, 29, 25
Peragro's stay time (once again only days not weeks):
QUOTE
QUOTE
Malic3000 (6:11:27 PM): i think it was 3 days... might be wrong though
It couldn't have been May 18th (during which Peragro sent me the email) if the receipts were from the end of May (the 25th being the earliest, the 29th being the latest...feasibly impossible). So then the question arises, that if Peragro only had receipts in his bag from the last few days, and Malic supposedly always owned the email account, how was Peragro able to receive and send emails in that account on May 18 th...well before Malic wants us to believe Peragro stayed with him? See IRC chatlog:
QUOTE
QUOTE
May 18 02:10:47 <+TTF_Satan>peragro, if you want, email me @ (email removed at request) and I will give you my address to send the SS card and stuff to, I have a govt secured box at work if you want that one instead.
May 18 02:11:11 <+Jovial_Kitten> hehe@guest23911
May 18 02:11:29 <+JCEr> JOVIAL KITTEN wow i havent seen u in a while
May 18 02:11:34 <+Peragro> I will email you in a moment then.
I then received the email from the fastmail account shortly after Peragro said he'd email me. So way before May 25 (the earliest date that Malic claimed and can prove via receipt dates) I received an email from his (Malic's personal fastmail account according to him) fastmail account.
All these things to me obviously proved that Malic is being deceiptful regarding him knowing Peragro. It would be impossible for Peragro to have that email account on the date he emailed me AND stay with Malic at the end of the month (which according to Malic was when he let Peragro use the account). So either I didn't receive that email I posted from that account or Malic didn't have a guest known to us as Peragro staying with him. So flat out, Malic is a hoax. The devil is in the details of his story.
Sosuemetoo
I have spent a considerable amount of time today reviewing all the information on Peragro.
Almost everything that Malic has described was on the chat logs, and items we have in the library. This includes the fact that Peragro was e-mailing via fastmail. I found that as I looked through the the e-mails John/Satan posted there.
There are a few things that hold me back from screaming HOAX here.
Malic says that Rachel is Korean. Peragro said that Rachel was Oriental. I thought he told me that in a PM at Mirc. However, I learned after looking at those Mirc logs that I didn't know how to PM in Mirc yet. So Peragro must have said it in a Mirc chat that we do not have posted.
Malic says that Peragro stayed with him 3 days only. We all know that Peragro was with us for two weeks. Near the end of his stay, it seems that he didn't come on for a few days. I noted in a chat (I believe it's from May 30th) where Jonfr asks Peragro if his IP changed. Jonfr obviously noticed a change. Did any of our members notice an IP change? Is it at all possible that Peragro left the motel he was staying at to stay at Malic's for 3 days?
Now, if anyone can give me an explanation to those two things .... then I will ride on John's Debunker of Hoaxer truck and bring the refreshments
"Mom"
Malic
I love how rude you all are... you couldn't have waited one day to moan and complain about me could you? If you would have you would have gotten this:
1. The payphone number
2. A paper with the words: Internet information for community: peragro/xxxxxxx
Not a big deal you say? Well then, why did this information let me log on to the other forum where peragro was in the first place? BAM! Say you are sorry... come on... just say it and I will give you these things.
John
Are you saying that you are Gavin? Because the other site you linked to is closed. BAM!
Malic
Wow. How smart you are... that doesn't mean you can't login. It lets you login and then tells you the board is closed. If you have the wrong password it tells you that as well...
BAM.
John
You crack me up. So now you expect us to believe that since you didn't have the receipts that you magically have a username and password, that previously didn't exist? You are funny. Bam.
Fess up or tell me the secret word.
Oh the way you knew the url to the old board is through the Library. A contribution by Jovial Kitten. It shows the url there in a series of attachments. Double Bam.
Malic
Login: peragro
Password: letmein
Try it yourself smartass.
John
Nice it worked. So "Jason", you about ready to fess up or should I wait until I get your DMV record? I figured once I started snooping into your girlfriends Social and your Drivers License you'd return. You couldn't have me knowing your real name that is why you cut the picture out and the name. But you forgot to cut out the Drivers License number. Too bad bro. What is the secret word?
Malic
Snoop away douche bag, im not him. i dont know the word.
You want the # or not smart guy?
John
I have the number. I don't need you to give it to me...hoax.
(series of offensive posts by Malic)
John
You got one more post insulting me and I will ban you. I know it is you "Peragro". So, either post your proof or be gone. You will not be missed.
----
Malic has been banned.
The Peragro story has come to a close. I am 99% sure that this was Peragro from the tk (the same peragro from tti). The writing styles and how easily he was angered, etc. I feel now that my Moby Dick has finally come to a close. He got worried that I was going to get to him via his drivers license, it was a ploy to draw him out. And he bit.
Good bye and good riddance Peragro. You have earned yourself a seat in the Hoaxers alley. I only wished I had taken you down back when you first started posting on the tk.
New Member Peragro
BOOOOO.... I am the ghost of a time traveller.... booooooooooooo... scary.
1. I am not peragro... look it up until you can't look it up anymore. I dare you. I double dog dare you. Bring it all the way to my front door.
2. I didn't know him... but you believed me for a while.
3. I did open the fastmail account after reading the threads.
4. IPB has a known bug that allows someone to get the password list.
5. Proxies can sure make you look legit.
6. Keep up the hope true believers. Time travellers are real.
7. Get a new admin.
Out.
StarLord
We are all here watching someone actually shooting themself in the foot several times. You don't get to see that often here. Usually, when folks are found out to be lying, they have the social graces to say sorry or someother hint that manners have not left them totally. John seems to have opened you up like a cadaver at a med school. Have the sense to just let your self go. Fighting it will only cause you and your mortician that much more pain in the end.
Your first mistake was lying. your second and greatest mistake was underestimating John.
CaryP
Your hoax was up a long time ago, when it became obvious that you were checking in from Plano, TX (a suburb of Dallas for those of you not familiar) not Missouri. Don't think so much of yourself. People played along, but were on to you early. You might have had one person who believed you. Oooh, you're such a hoaxer, such an evil computer genius - I'm so underwhelmed.
(Peragro is banned)
John
Closing thread. I think this is finished.
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> Time Travel Library > Time Travel Hoaxers > Peragro Hoax > Malic and THE END
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Ralan post Nov 2 2004, 04:58 PM
Post #1
Member
**
Group: Librarian
Posts: 13
Joined: 27-September 04
From: England, UK
Member No.: 7
Snow Fire Watches
Good morning Malic. I apologize for any wrong impression you may be getting about us around here. Some of us actually do believe that time travel will be invented int he future and for that reason we can expect to meet time travelers in our present. Peragro may or may not have been a time traveler. We were never sure and we still aren't. As you may have noted, almost every TT we get is soon discarded.
Peragro happens to be one that actaully did everything he said he would do. That doesn't happen very often. He also disappeared when he said he was leaving and we have never seen or heard from him again. His thread has been getting bumped because of some investigation work John is doing on the pieces of the puzzle. Anyone could have been keeping up with the story recently and someone in Sprinfield Missouri with an interest in caves could have decided to have some fun with it.
I am not saying this is what you have done at all. What I am saying is that John is right in that you have provided less proof than Peragro did. Please do go get that payphone number and give it John. But you have to understand that all that proves is that you do have certain information that is not publicly available. It doesn't prove that you are not Peragro reincarnated. It doesn't prove that one of your friends or tenants didn't play Peragro and pick up stuff laying around your house to send to John - discarded ID's, cave locations, etc.
Based on what you have said, there is nothing in your story to say that Peragro wasn't who he said he was, doing what he said he was doing. Maybe we can come up with something that proves you actaully did know him, but we would still have to figure out if you are him or not or if you have anything that can actaully debunk him.
Please tell me what else of his you found when you were unpacking.
Thanks Malic. Peace!
Snow
Sosuemetoo
Okay Malic, please listen. Telling an admin or mod to shut up is inappropriate on this forum. Being snide with members will not make people believe you, nor will it make friends.
I am rather confused by all of this.
1. Malic says that he has had this e-mail address for over a year, John verified that it was begun just a few days before Peragro began posting. Are you both talking about the same e-mail address? Could Peragro have been using both the one that John speaks of and another that Malic speaks of?
2. Malic you did know the cave, but as John states and you yourself have stated, you are a cave-enthusiast and would know the private caves in the area. I think the name of the cave is a non issue in proving if you ever met Peragro.
3. Malic, the payphone number may not yeild anything. You stated he was in your home for 3 days. You dropped him at a payphone and he made a call to his dad. You said he stayed with you in late May. That payphone number may not be the same as the one he called John on. The dates do not match up.
Malic, why don't you just scan what you have, post it here on the forum. Oh and if you still have a pic of the cave, that would be good too.
"Mom"
John
1. We can both dispute this but the fact is you haven't proved this at all (in regards to how long you have had the account).
2. No you didn't know the cave. SFW gave you hints until you guessed it. Being from the area, I would be surprised if you didn't know the name of a well known cave. It'd be like someone telling me that a cave near huntsville with the initials of CC...Anyone around here would know Crystal Caverns. Had you mentioned the cave before SFW started giving you hints, it would've said alot in the way of credibility. Had you said something to the effect of, "and this dude was constantly asking me about X cave", you would have gotten brownie points. However, being that you guessed it due to hints given to you, it just means you know the area. You did claim to be a cave dweller as well. So, given this you should automatically know the surrounding caves in the local area. Does this mean you know Peragro because you know the caves in the area? Not at all. I know computers, ask me about a computer store in the area, I can guess the name as well given the initials. Does this mean I know Person X that may have gone there? As in your case no.
3. You get the phone number and we'll talk. This response above all shows your intentions and age, you want to be cuddled and accepted and I pose a threat. So you want me to "shut up". This is a juvenile response, one of an age much younger than you claim to be. And as for will I "shut up". The answer is no. I, being part of this community, am a partial owner and therefor entitled to speak freely within the context of the rules. Until such a time arises that I feel the need to sit idly by, quietly mind you, I will voice my insights when and where I chose to do so. I encourage every member of the community to do so and expect the gesture to be mutual.
John
QUOTE
QUOTE(Snow Fire Watches @ Nov 1 2004, 01:51 PM)
John - Please explain how you can know when Peragro opened the email account you are refering to?
Snow
First, Peragro said that he had set it up just for this occasion. Generally he was forthcoming on the tools he used. If he were borrowing a friends email account, he would have said so, regardless of how incriminating it would have made the confession.
Second, how ludicrous would you be to allow a complete stranger to use your personal email account? How little of thought would you have to be to allow a complete stranger to view all of your personal emails, etc and be able to send things out that would be directly traced back to you?
And finally, I emailed him over a span of time, not just 3 days, so he had the account before Malic credits him with it. Let us assume that since he was unsure of when exactly peragro stayed with him that it was on or after the dates Malic mentioned on the receipts and the length of time he stayed.:
Peragro's stay time (not weeks but days):
QUOTE
QUOTE
Malic3000 (5:49:56 PM): he only stayed with me for a few days and was always on the computer
Dates of receipts in the bag Malic, "claimed" he found:
QUOTE
QUOTE
Malic3000 (6:08:41 PM): may 27, 27, 27, 28, 29, 25
Peragro's stay time (once again only days not weeks):
QUOTE
QUOTE
Malic3000 (6:11:27 PM): i think it was 3 days... might be wrong though
It couldn't have been May 18th (during which Peragro sent me the email) if the receipts were from the end of May (the 25th being the earliest, the 29th being the latest...feasibly impossible). So then the question arises, that if Peragro only had receipts in his bag from the last few days, and Malic supposedly always owned the email account, how was Peragro able to receive and send emails in that account on May 18 th...well before Malic wants us to believe Peragro stayed with him? See IRC chatlog:
QUOTE
QUOTE
May 18 02:10:47 <+TTF_Satan>peragro, if you want, email me @ (email removed at request) and I will give you my address to send the SS card and stuff to, I have a govt secured box at work if you want that one instead.
May 18 02:11:11 <+Jovial_Kitten> hehe@guest23911
May 18 02:11:29 <+JCEr> JOVIAL KITTEN wow i havent seen u in a while
May 18 02:11:34 <+Peragro> I will email you in a moment then.
I then received the email from the fastmail account shortly after Peragro said he'd email me. So way before May 25 (the earliest date that Malic claimed and can prove via receipt dates) I received an email from his (Malic's personal fastmail account according to him) fastmail account.
All these things to me obviously proved that Malic is being deceiptful regarding him knowing Peragro. It would be impossible for Peragro to have that email account on the date he emailed me AND stay with Malic at the end of the month (which according to Malic was when he let Peragro use the account). So either I didn't receive that email I posted from that account or Malic didn't have a guest known to us as Peragro staying with him. So flat out, Malic is a hoax. The devil is in the details of his story.
Sosuemetoo
I have spent a considerable amount of time today reviewing all the information on Peragro.
Almost everything that Malic has described was on the chat logs, and items we have in the library. This includes the fact that Peragro was e-mailing via fastmail. I found that as I looked through the the e-mails John/Satan posted there.
There are a few things that hold me back from screaming HOAX here.
Malic says that Rachel is Korean. Peragro said that Rachel was Oriental. I thought he told me that in a PM at Mirc. However, I learned after looking at those Mirc logs that I didn't know how to PM in Mirc yet. So Peragro must have said it in a Mirc chat that we do not have posted.
Malic says that Peragro stayed with him 3 days only. We all know that Peragro was with us for two weeks. Near the end of his stay, it seems that he didn't come on for a few days. I noted in a chat (I believe it's from May 30th) where Jonfr asks Peragro if his IP changed. Jonfr obviously noticed a change. Did any of our members notice an IP change? Is it at all possible that Peragro left the motel he was staying at to stay at Malic's for 3 days?
Now, if anyone can give me an explanation to those two things .... then I will ride on John's Debunker of Hoaxer truck and bring the refreshments
"Mom"
Malic
I love how rude you all are... you couldn't have waited one day to moan and complain about me could you? If you would have you would have gotten this:
1. The payphone number
2. A paper with the words: Internet information for community: peragro/xxxxxxx
Not a big deal you say? Well then, why did this information let me log on to the other forum where peragro was in the first place? BAM! Say you are sorry... come on... just say it and I will give you these things.
John
Are you saying that you are Gavin? Because the other site you linked to is closed. BAM!
Malic
Wow. How smart you are... that doesn't mean you can't login. It lets you login and then tells you the board is closed. If you have the wrong password it tells you that as well...
BAM.
John
You crack me up. So now you expect us to believe that since you didn't have the receipts that you magically have a username and password, that previously didn't exist? You are funny. Bam.
Fess up or tell me the secret word.
Oh the way you knew the url to the old board is through the Library. A contribution by Jovial Kitten. It shows the url there in a series of attachments. Double Bam.
Malic
Login: peragro
Password: letmein
Try it yourself smartass.
John
Nice it worked. So "Jason", you about ready to fess up or should I wait until I get your DMV record? I figured once I started snooping into your girlfriends Social and your Drivers License you'd return. You couldn't have me knowing your real name that is why you cut the picture out and the name. But you forgot to cut out the Drivers License number. Too bad bro. What is the secret word?
Malic
Snoop away douche bag, im not him. i dont know the word.
You want the # or not smart guy?
John
I have the number. I don't need you to give it to me...hoax.
(series of offensive posts by Malic)
John
You got one more post insulting me and I will ban you. I know it is you "Peragro". So, either post your proof or be gone. You will not be missed.
----
Malic has been banned.
The Peragro story has come to a close. I am 99% sure that this was Peragro from the tk (the same peragro from tti). The writing styles and how easily he was angered, etc. I feel now that my Moby Dick has finally come to a close. He got worried that I was going to get to him via his drivers license, it was a ploy to draw him out. And he bit.
Good bye and good riddance Peragro. You have earned yourself a seat in the Hoaxers alley. I only wished I had taken you down back when you first started posting on the tk.
New Member Peragro
BOOOOO.... I am the ghost of a time traveller.... booooooooooooo... scary.
1. I am not peragro... look it up until you can't look it up anymore. I dare you. I double dog dare you. Bring it all the way to my front door.
2. I didn't know him... but you believed me for a while.
3. I did open the fastmail account after reading the threads.
4. IPB has a known bug that allows someone to get the password list.
5. Proxies can sure make you look legit.
6. Keep up the hope true believers. Time travellers are real.
7. Get a new admin.
Out.
StarLord
We are all here watching someone actually shooting themself in the foot several times. You don't get to see that often here. Usually, when folks are found out to be lying, they have the social graces to say sorry or someother hint that manners have not left them totally. John seems to have opened you up like a cadaver at a med school. Have the sense to just let your self go. Fighting it will only cause you and your mortician that much more pain in the end.
Your first mistake was lying. your second and greatest mistake was underestimating John.
CaryP
Your hoax was up a long time ago, when it became obvious that you were checking in from Plano, TX (a suburb of Dallas for those of you not familiar) not Missouri. Don't think so much of yourself. People played along, but were on to you early. You might have had one person who believed you. Oooh, you're such a hoaxer, such an evil computer genius - I'm so underwhelmed.
(Peragro is banned)
John
Closing thread. I think this is finished.
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