My vortex video atlast

[Dr Zaius]

can we get back on topic. debunking my vortex video?

Honestly, debating Harte is more entertaining and understandable than your video. Why don't you explain your premise better

 

[Dr Zaius]

Well, I did say "vacuum cleaner..."

Harte

Some people confuse being a smart ass with having wit. How about laying some of that knowledge from your superior intellect on us drooling idiots and new agers? Surely you can tear yourself away from your super important job at NASA, (or was that CERN? maybe the European space agency?) Wait, please don't tell me that you are just another backyard astronaut like the rest of us? That can't be...I mean, you just can't possibly be handing out ridicule without having some kind of very high intellectual and scientific status? Right?

How about you show me a vortex?

That is, other than one caused by a vacuum or a drain.

Harte

How do you propose that I show you a vortex? Can I show you radio waves? I can show you how they work but they are physically unobservable to the human eye.

 

[Harte]

Yet we can locate rotating EM fields quite easily. Using well-understood and established means.
You aren't saying these vortices are electromagnetic though. Or are you?
Rotating fields have to be generated, while these vortices are natural, they way I understand it.

Of course, fluids like the atmosphere and the ocean contain vortices. But invisible psychic vortices that one must "feel" for?
Again, evidence for the existence of such would be welcome, and would be prerequisite to belief.

Harte

 

[Harte]

In the meantime, do you deny that "vortex" is an overused and unevidenced concept typically utilized to "explain" something an unimaginative author or poster can't actually explain, and so uses the term as a hand waving cover-all explanation for an unevidenced phenomenon that, if true, would take actual hard work and study to understand and explain?
Surely you get that this was the point of my post.

Or was my meaning sucked away by a vortex?

Harte

 

[Harte]

can we get back on topic. debunking my vortex video?

Honestly, debating Harte is more entertaining and understandable than your video. Why don't you explain your premise better

What's the problem Doc?
Can't you see the triangle?

Harte

 

[brian jj]

Don't you think that one experiment with flour making triangles or pentagons is worth more than a million dowsing experiments? No scientist will consider dowsing proper protocol.

isn't this "triangle"objective evidence that can be debated and replicated? shouldn't we consider that now there might be empirical proof of the "vortex" Lets call it vortex until experiments can show it to be something else. Ok

The basic premise of the flour experiment that in the location where a suspected vortex lies bulk quantities of small particles seem to form outlines of shapes when the particles are dropped from height and allowed to fall. According to physics there are electrostatic interaction between individual particles at all times and there is some sort of influence which makes flour particles move out of the way or collect together. Using basic logic and no leaps of fantasy science like time travel or orgone ; there must be zones of charge inside a vortex. More experimentation is needed.

 

[Dr Zaius]

In the meantime, do you deny that "vortex" is an overused and unevidenced concept typically utilized to "explain" something an unimaginative author or poster can't actually explain, and so uses the term as a hand waving cover-all explanation for an unevidenced phenomenon that, if true, would take actual hard work and study to understand and explain?
Surely you get that this was the point of my post.

Or was my meaning sucked away by a vortex?

Harte

I take your inference about the overuse of the term vortex in the current new age vernacular, it certainly can be as abused as the term "quantum." Many use both terms (admittedly myself included) without full comprehension of the science behind them. Though, to be fair, many theoretical physicists appear to have an unsecured tether on some of these implicative concepts as well. To address the other question: Nested forms or vortexes are familiar to us since time immortal, as evident in religious iconography, sculptures and artworks. They are seen in our modern telescopes as black holes and even our own galaxy. Photons, underlying our visible reality exhibit these properties and vortex imagery is abundant in folklore and religious beliefs worldwide. It is in many ways a part of our collective consciousness (to get Jungian) and if you believe that we can influence electromagnetic field or particle behavior at the quantum (there it is again) photonic level, crossing the boundaries of senses, nano-cognitive behaviors have been found to exist. If you do not believe in this effect, I can refer you to several studies in the areas of nano-bio-cognitive influence and it's relationship to vortex like behavior. In a way, one can "feel" for vortexes in that brain chemistry and physical alteration of the perception field involving nano photonics occurs in a mechanically and scientifically valid way. The molecular cloud, from which our solar system was formed was a pulse of energy in a cosmic rotational motion, or a vortex and it is possible to see these spiral structures, (the golden mean) throughout nature.

 

[Dr Zaius]

Don't you think that one experiment with flour making triangles or pentagons is worth more than a million dowsing experiments? No scientist will consider dowsing proper protocol.

isn't this "triangle"objective evidence that can be debated and replicated? shouldn't we consider that now there might be empirical proof of the "vortex" Lets call it vortex until experiments can show it to be something else. Ok

The basic premise of the flour experiment that in the location where a suspected vortex lies bulk quantities of small particles seem to form outlines of shapes when the particles are dropped from height and allowed to fall. According to physics there are electrostatic interaction between individual particles at all times and there is some sort of influence which makes flour particles move out of the way or collect together. Using basic logic and no leaps of fantasy science like time travel or orgone ; there must be zones of charge inside a vortex. More experimentation is needed.

1. Why would you assume that dowsing is somehow less valid than your flour triangle? I understand the point of the dowsing experiment, yours, however, is rather vague
2. There may indeed be lines of charge throughout a vortex, I'm not certain that your experiment proves this. Unsure why you post that time travel and orgone are leaps of fantasy...you did read the name of this forum and website didn't you?

 

[Harte]

In the meantime, do you deny that "vortex" is an overused and unevidenced concept typically utilized to "explain" something an unimaginative author or poster can't actually explain, and so uses the term as a hand waving cover-all explanation for an unevidenced phenomenon that, if true, would take actual hard work and study to understand and explain?
Surely you get that this was the point of my post.

Or was my meaning sucked away by a vortex?

Harte

I take your inference about the overuse of the term vortex in the current new age vernacular, it certainly can be as abused as the term "quantum." Many use both terms (admittedly myself included) without full comprehension of the science behind them. Though, to be fair, many theoretical physicists appear to have an unsecured tether on some of these implicative concepts as well.

Theoretical physicists? QM is not part of theoretical physics anymore than GRT is.
Physicists know what quantum means, and so do I. Not to mention all the solid, undeniable data that QM explains, and correctly predicted.

To address the other question: Nested forms or vortexes are familiar to us since time immortal, as evident in religious iconography, sculptures and artworks.

Spirals? You talking about spirals?
Shells are spiral. Are snails vortex generators?

They are seen in our modern telescopes as black holes and even our own galaxy. Photons, underlying our visible reality exhibit these properties and vortex imagery is abundant in folklore and religious beliefs worldwide.

Spirals created by gravity. Fully understood, fully visible, and fully explained.

It is in many ways a part of our collective consciousness (to get Jungian) and if you believe that we can influence electromagnetic field or particle behavior at the quantum (there it is again) photonic level, crossing the boundaries of senses, nano-cognitive behaviors have been found to exist.

I do not so believe. I hope you don't go into the empty "consciousness collapses the probability wave" claim.

If you do not believe in this effect, I can refer you to several studies in the areas of nano-bio-cognitive influence and it's relationship to vortex like behavior. In a way, one can "feel" for vortexes in that brain chemistry and physical alteration of the perception field involving nano photonics occurs in a mechanically and scientifically valid way. The molecular cloud, from which our solar system was formed was a pulse of energy in a cosmic rotational motion, or a vortex and it is possible to see these spiral structures, (the golden mean) throughout nature.

Dust and gas is not a "pulse of energy."
Spirals are evident, and explained.
Vortices in the context of (for example) Ley lines, HDRs, etc. are not evident, explained or supported.

Harte

 

[Dr Zaius]

Quantum Mechanics is also known as quantum field THEORY. No, you do not fully understand it, nor does anyone else (to my knowledge) and if you did I doubt that you would be arguing with me on this website.
Snails are very slow vortex makers. Seriously, my point was that vortices are inherently part of our consciousness, embedded in our psyche because we sense them implicitly. You appear to be a hardcore materialist and closed to any ideas that do not fit your model of science worship. Fundamentalism, whether it is religion or science is a rather narrow reality tunnel. Let us be clear Mr Science....you are posting in a time travel discussion forum on a site about Paranormal studies. Read that last sentence again.