Afterlife Theories

[taykair]

On a related note (and this may have something to do with Mayhem's views concerning mind existence before physical birth), I've been thinking a bit more about the second (or midpoint) stage of human existence I mentioned earlier - existence as individual, non-corporeal beings.

I mentioned that such an existence would be akin to a dreamlike state. If this is so, then I would think that our environment in such a state would exist in one of two ways:

In the first dreamlike environment, we would be aware that we are "dreaming" (like lucid dreaming, only much more tangible). In such an environment, we would be able to change things at will to conform them to our desires - creating our own heaven, you might say. However, it seems to me that such an existence would soon grow to be intolerable, since we would know that we are living only within our own minds, and not interacting with the "real world" around us. We would soon feel that we were living in a "fake" world, surrounded by "fake" people.

In the second dreamlike environment, we would share a common environment with other non-corporeal beings, although we would still not share a common consciousness. (This would occur later, in the "group mind-energy" state). In this kind of dream-world, we would not be able to make everything just the way we would want, and those inhabiting that world with us would be independent of our control. In other words, it would be an environment - more or less - like the one we currently find ourselves living in. Which leads me to think...

...what if we are already non-corporeal beings, living in a dream-world environment? What if we are only imagining that we possess physical existence? How could we prove that it is otherwise?

I feel a headache coming on. Thinking about stuff like this always gives me a headache.

Or maybe I'm imagining that, too.

 

[Mayhem]

Thanks for your reply, Mayhem. There are a few of your points, however, which I have difficulty understanding:

1. You say that the mind energy moves back to the source of its creation. This would imply that the energy existed as mind energy before our corporeal existence. Although I agree (since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but only changed) that some form of energy must have existed prior to its conversion to mind energy by the brain, I don't understand how it could have existed as mind energy before that conversion. It would seem to me that the physical brain would be the "source of creation" of mind energy - by ingesting food and changing the energy derived from that to power the brain. Obviously, the mind cannot return to a dead and decaying physical brain. So, what is this "source of creation" that you're talking about?

2. You say that this movement occurs when there is a "natural death". What difference would the circumstances of death make? And, if the circumstances do make a difference, then where would the mind energy go after an "unnatural" death?

3. You mention that the period between moving from one life to the next is around 40 to 49 days. How did you arrive at this figure?

4. You say that this period is shorter for "advanced souls". Why? And what is it that would make one soul more advanced than another?

I apologize for all the questions. Rest assured that I have not posed them in order to "trip you up" or to find flaws in your theory. (After all. I'm sure that many folks could find an equal or greater number of mistakes in mine.) Nor do I ask them to be argumentative. The questions are posed only to give me a better understanding of your views - which I appreciate that you have shared.

Take care.

These are the mysteries.

I would like you to read to read over http://www.freespiritualebooks.com/uploads/5/0/5/8/50589505/the-tibetan-book-of-living-and-dying.pdf

1. The Physical brain is not the source of mind energy the soul/spirit inserts itself to create such.

2. If not a natural death, Murder, Suicide is different again, spirits remain close and have to be moved by other means.

3. Eastern thought is of this opinion, and while just recently we met with an Indian visitor here and spoke much about this.

4. Over many lives an soul moves through the process of becoming advanced, though from antiquity we always have them here and they direct mankind. They can come and go as they wish.

 

[Harte]

There are so many possibilities, and as many theories as there are people who espouse them.

Here is one:

If the mind is nothing more than the physical brain, then physical death would seem to be the end.

However, if the mind is not simply a collection of neurons and synapses, but rather the energy that moves through them, then that energy - like all energy - cannot be destroyed.

The energy you're talking about is not destroyed. It is converted into a small amount of heat and dissipated from your body that way.
So, no "mind energy" is required or indicated.
Therefore, if there IS an afterlife, it doesn't work like that.

Harte

 

[taykair]

The energy you're talking about is not destroyed. It is converted into a small amount of heat and dissipated from your body that way.
So, no "mind energy" is required or indicated.
Therefore, if there IS an afterlife, it doesn't work like that. Harte

Thanks for the response.

No need for me to remind you, of course, that I made no claims that it does work that way, since you no doubt read, at the start of my first post:

There are so many possibilities, and as many theories as there are people who espouse them.

Here is one:

As for "mind energy": I am not saying that there is a particular kind of energy called "mind energy". I wouldn't even begin to speculate as to what "mind energy" would be. I only used the term in order to differentiate it from, say, "digestive energy" - the chemical process used to break down food and extract the nutrients from it. The energy in the brain is, of course, electro-chemical in nature and, as you say, some of this energy is given off as heat (not only after death, but all during our lives as well).

Still, energy is energy. You indicated that it leaves the body (as heat) in a non-coherent state, and this is certainly a possibility - although there is nothing (that I know of) which would prevent it from escaping from the brain, upon death, in a coherent state which is other than heat, either. Perhaps you could explain how only a non-coherent state is possible, and why a coherent state is not.

I'm interested to know how you think an afterlife (if there is one) would work, since the theory which I gave does not seem to be adequate. (The title of the thread is, after all, "Afterlife Theories", not "Skepticism for Beginners".)

Take care.

 

[titorite]

I like this theory.

All one soul. when we say save our souls we mean ourself. When we died to save ourself it is ourself that needs saving. Your mom your dad your wife your husband your child you. do you get it?

 

[taykair]

I like this theory.

All one soul. when we say save our souls we mean ourself. When we died to save ourself it is ourself that needs saving. Your mom your dad your wife your husband your child you. do you get it?

I enjoyed that very much. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[Harte]

Thanks for the response.

No need for me to remind you, of course, that I made no claims that it does work that way, since you no doubt read, at the start of my first post:



As for "mind energy": I am not saying that there is a particular kind of energy called "mind energy". I wouldn't even begin to speculate as to what "mind energy" would be. I only used the term in order to differentiate it from, say, "digestive energy" - the chemical process used to break down food and extract the nutrients from it. The energy in the brain is, of course, electro-chemical in nature and, as you say, some of this energy is given off as heat (not only after death, but all during our lives as well).

Still, energy is energy. You indicated that it leaves the body (as heat) in a non-coherent state, and this is certainly a possibility - although there is nothing (that I know of) which would prevent it from escaping from the brain, upon death, in a coherent state which is other than heat, either. Perhaps you could explain how only a non-coherent state is possible, and why a coherent state is not.

The energy you're talking about - the electrical impulses making up the thought patterns (and other workings) in your brain - already dissipates as heat while you're thinking it.
Why, just because you stopped doing that, would the same energy suddenly become whatever you mean by "coherent?"

I'm interested to know how you think an afterlife (if there is one) would work, since the theory which I gave does not seem to be adequate. (The title of the thread is, after all, "Afterlife Theories", not "Skepticism for Beginners".)

Take care.

No Idea, but it would seem to need to be along the traditional lines of belief.
That is, you can't make an energy argument out of it.

Harte

 

[taykair]

...already dissipates as heat while you're thinking it.

Yes. I think I already said that.

...whatever you mean by "coherent?"

Just the usual meaning. In other words: Unified; of a single piece; as opposed to diffused.

...you can't make an energy argument out of it.

I thought I did but, as you say, it was not a good argument. (Or, better, not an argument with which you agreed.)

 

[Mayhem]

If you dont believe in another life , what do you think will happen?

I would like to have some more discussion on this as it interesting.

 

[taykair]

If you dont believe in another life , what do you think will happen?

If this is directed at me, then I believe that consciousness continues. However, I have no evidence to support this belief.

If directed at Harte, then he said:

No Idea, but it would seem to need to be along the traditional lines of belief.

I'm not exactly sure why an afterlife would need to conform to ancient theories concerning it, though. Perhaps he will return to explain.