Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

[Judge Bean]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Originally posted by Lonewolf@Aug 16 2004, 04:25 PM
Paul, help me out here. With over 409 cents of every american dollar going to the government annually in taxes, how can their be financial distress?

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They're using our pockets as well as our money. The entire dollar is in their hands.

Cary, help me out here. Is that right?

Lonewolf, do you mean that you are experiencing no financial distress, or that there really isn't any national economic crisis? Perhaps if the corporations were to pay taxes...

 

[Lonewolf]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon+Aug 16 2004, 12:57 PM--><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Lonewolf@Aug 16 2004, 04:25 PM
Paul, help me out here.? With over 409 cents of every american dollar going to the government annually in taxes, how can their be financial distress?

​

They're using our pockets as well as our money. The entire dollar is in their hands.

Cary, help me out here. Is that right?

Lonewolf, do you mean that you are experiencing no financial distress, or that there really isn't any national economic crisis? Perhaps if the corporations were to pay taxes...

[snapback]6955[/snapback]​

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Actually quite the opposite. I wrote a paper last year about how pepsi (a company I own stock in) avoided a 2.2 billion dollar tax, while if I avoided taxes, I would be in jail.
Personally, until today I have never experienced severe financial distress.

 

[CaryP]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

They're using our pockets as well as our money. The entire dollar is in their hands.

Cary, help me out here. Is that right?

Lonewolf, do you mean that you are experiencing no financial distress, or that there really isn't any national economic crisis? Perhaps if the corporations were to pay taxes...

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents. The country's total debt between federal and state govts., corporations and the consumer is pushing $40 Trillion. That's about a 360% debt to GDP ratio. The last time debt got this close in relative terms was in 1929, when the debt to GDP ratio was 275%. The next Greater Depression will make the 1930's look like a warm up game. That's a lot of wampum. $1 Trillion is 1 million X 1 million. Our GDP (gross domestic product) is right at $11 Trillion. The unfunded liability for Social Security and Medicare between now and 2020 is about $42 Trillion. Add in mandatory funding in the Federal budget (interest, entitlement payments, running minimal govt. services, etc.) over the same time period, and we are a very "broke" country. No country in the history of the planet has ever been allowed to amass so much debt in any way you measure it. What follows a credit bubble of this magnitude is a deflationary depression.

Total federal debt that is issued is pushing $8 Trillion into year's end. The federal debt ceiling (limit) is about $7.38 Trillion, and we're just below that. Treas. Sec. Snow has been begging Congress all summer to raise the debt ceiling because even with accounting tricks at Treasury, the govt. will run out of money by mid-November. Congress being the election year whores that they are, were not about to raise the debt ceiling until after the Nov. 2 election.

The other thing you need to know about the way the federal govt. accounts for deficits is that it is on a strictly cash basis. So surpluses from Social Security have been used for decades to fund the govt.'s spending, leaving the SS Admin. with a bunch of IOU's. There's no money in the kitty so to speak. So the federal budget deficits reported are actually way under reported. If you back out the SS surpluses of the late Clinton admin. (when everyone was bragging about our record budget surpluses and were projecting a $10 Trillion surplus into 2010) we were actually posting net deficits. Corporate executives would be indicted, tried, found guilty and jailed for such accounting practices, but not the politicians. When the baby boomers begin to retire the deficit will become a vast mega ocean of red ink (deficits) The $42 Trillion net deficit I mentioned above is discounted to present value. The future dollar value is something in the $100 Trillion range. Greenspan and Snow have both warned the Congress that future SS benefits need to be trimmed now to avoid a "systemic dislocation" (financial system crash) in the future, and to give baby boomers time to prepare. Five to ten years ain't much time to prepare for the cuts that will have to be made down the road. If Congress is true to form, they'll wait for a crisis to erupt before doing anything, making the personal pain on retirees worse.

The taxes that we are assessed won't even come close to paying the interest on our projected future mountain range of debt, much less the principle. Our children and their grandchildren will still be trying to pay this much debt off, unless the US repudiates its own debt, a la Argentina and Russia style. Can't happen? Won't happen? I'd bet heavily that that's where we're unavoidably headed. Not tomorow or next year, but the debt is being financed mainly by Asian central banks. Total US Treasury debt is now about 40% to 45% owned by foreign central banks - mainly China and Japan. Who controls the debt market? Foreign central banks do. There will be a day when they won't want our dollars or our bonds in payment of our massive trade deficit. BTW, July's trade deficit was an eye popping new record of $55.8 billion, and the federal budget deficit was $69+ billion for the same month. So we're on track to borrow over $1 Trillion this year to keep the sheeple grazing in the pastures of consumerism and more debt. Yeeha.

Damn, this turned into a long ass post. Sorry folks. If you want to see a video on how the Fed operates, I posted one over on the Politics/Military/Law thread. It's called "Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve" Yeah, I know it's 42 minutes long, but it's informative and gives you a better idea of how we're being robbed of our own damned "money" if that's what it is anymore. Look at the currency you carry. Prominently displayed at the top of every bill is "Federal Reserve Note". "Note" = debt. The "real" dollar is long gone. The Fed manufactures all the Federal Reserve Notes it wants without Congressional control. There is nothing "federal" or "reserve" about the Fed. It's basically owned by banking cartels in the US and Europe, and not subject to Congressional oversight, but that's another long ass post.

Cary

P.S. If you're interested in what to expect in the coming years (and you should be), I highly recommend "Conquer the Crash" by Robert Prechter, Jr. Prechter does an excellent job at laying out the case for a deflationary depression of epic proportions. Make sure you get the 2004 updated version. Some of it is a little technical, but most of it is easy to read and understand. I've had clients read it. It scared some so much they couldn't finish the book. Yes, we are in for some very scary times over the next 6 to 10 years.

 

[Judge Bean]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Cary comes through.

Now, I think that we have to couple this bad news with two suggestions:

1. Given the extraordinary level of governmental control of the economy, it is highly unlikely that this state of affairs was reached through the slow accidental course of history. It seems likely that the crisis is engineered, and, if so, for what purpose? To put it bluntly, the ones who stand to benefit from a collapsed democratic system are... well, you know who they are.

2. Expect very soon for the labeling to begin in earnest. It is now the season for the authorities to begin the engineered social change that requires erasure of the Constitution; this first requires a deep division among the people. If you start talking to one another now, you will find that you have much more in common at the deepest levels than you are being goaded to think by the media and government. They want you to start calling one another names, locking yourselves into fixed positions that will result in disunity and upheaval. Before you label anyone these days, and start your discussion with an argument or sneer, stop and think for a moment.

Consider who will benefit from setting people against one another.

 

[CaryP]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

1. Given the extraordinary level of governmental control of the economy, it is highly unlikely that this state of affairs was reached through the slow accidental course of history. It seems likely that the crisis is engineered, and, if so, for what purpose? To put it bluntly, the ones who stand to benefit from a collapsed democratic system are... well, you know who they are.

"Accidental" is hardly a term I'd use to describe the actions of the federal govt. and the Fed since its inception. The Fed was concocted by a group of banker elite types in a meeting on Jeckyl Island at the beginning of the last century. They got the Congress and Pres. Wilson to go along with it in 1913 (same year as the Income Tax). It took them a while to get us totally off the gold standard, but Nixon's closing of the gold window back in 1971 let the proverbial cat out of the bag. Since then it would appear to an informed observer that the Fed has been following a recipe for financial disaster. Greenspan has made it a new art form. The purpose of such a calamity is to bankrupt the middle class. The ruling elite would continue on because they're "in on it" and would position themselves appropriately to profit from the event. The now impoverished "middle class" will be less feisty about govt. crackdowns, changes to the Constitution, etc. when they've become dependent on govt. handouts. But poverty breeds rebellion, and this may be the glitch in the plans of those in the engineer's seat. Of course, govt. crackdowns are part of a pre-emptive move to keep any rebellions down. I just don't know how the complacent American "middle class" is going to take poverty and being dependent on handouts for survival. Some or many (my guess) would assuredly go along, even some who now speak strongly against such enslavement. Even a few million in rebellion (1% of the population) may not be enough to effect lasting change. What do you think those FEMA camps and prison rail cars are for?

2. Expect very soon for the labeling to begin in earnest. It is now the season for the authorities to begin the engineered social change that requires erasure of the Constitution; this first requires a deep division among the people.

I thought the labeling had already begun. Wait til the system melts down, then you'll see some real labeling. Of course the proper spin will be put on the "events" (financial collapse, terror attack) to blame just about anyone and everyone except for the real culprits. How many foreign countries do you think the US can fight at one time? How many riots can be quelled with a national police force? How many small to mid sized businesses will be vilified for trying to survive, or just as badly, regulated and taxed into oblivion? Yep, those spin doctors are very good at making the "those people" look like demons coming to eat your children. You protest govt. policy, you're a traitor, un-American, or a radical. You try and point out huge financial blunders by the Fed and the massive deficit spending, and you're labelled a heretic for questioning the wisdom of the "Maestro" and reminded of VP Cheney's "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" and dismissed as a lunatic. Suggest a reduction in govt. spending, especially entitlement programs and you're a cruel barbarian. But my bet is things will get a lot worse from there.

Cary

Paul, your wisdom abounds.

 

[StarLord]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Cary,

I'd say you two were neck and neck in the information and wisdom department. I count myself very luck to be associated with both of you and have the treat to read what you both post here.

Of course, that's just my humble opinion.

 

[Cornelia]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon@Aug 16 2004, 10:07 PM
Given the extraordinary level of governmental control of the economy,

Paul, it's economy to control our governments. That's why we're ended in so big troubles. A bunch of greedy AH. When govts controlled economy, the name of govts was Roosevelt, Churchill, De Gasperi, De Gaulle and so on. Now, we have Bush, Blair and Berlusconi (also known as Sauron, Saruman and Wormtongue). Can you spot the difference?

It seems likely that the crisis is engineered, and, if so, for what purpose?

I think I know the answer: the end of cheap oil.

 

[Judge Bean]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Originally posted by Cornelia+Aug 16 2004, 10:34 PM--><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Paul J. Lyon@Aug 16 2004, 10:07 PM
Given the extraordinary level of governmental control of the economy,

Paul, it's economy to control our governments.

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Actually, I think I'm saying the same thing you are. I don't mean to suggest that there is anyone alive who can control what the corporation monsters do; I do mean to suggest that "the extraordinary level" of control looks like the corporations control the government.

But the idea that they are planning to engineer society... what form do you think this will take?

 

[StarLord]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

For one, Orwell's 1984 comes to mind. The total population geared to a war time senario where there is no enemy in reality, ruled ruthlessly via emotional and mental brainwashing backed by the threat of death if you fail the system. But first, you get to confess your madeup crimes against the people.

 

[Judge Bean]

Blindness prevails, ignorance dominates!!!

Originally posted by StarLord@Aug 17 2004, 05:28 PM
For one,? Orwell's 1984 comes to mind. The total population geared to a war time senario where there is no enemy in reality, ruled ruthlessly via emotional and mental brainwashing backed by the threat of death if you fail the system.? But first,? you get to confess your madeup crimes against the people.

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They have that sort of criminal justice system in China. At the trial, the accused faces a panel consisting of the prosecutor, judge, and local officials, and confesses his crimes against the collective. Then he is sentenced. That's what they call a trial.

If Ashcroft had his way, a federal trial against a disloyal American (one accused of the treason of being unpatriotic, or indirectly supporting foreign criminals) would proceed along much the same line, and far outside of the rules of the Constitution. You would not have an attorney, a jury of civilian peers, and you would not be able to distinguish between the prosecution and the magistrate.

Then they would be free to carry out a program of disrupting the other American institutions that thrive outside the reach of official displeasure, and there goes the whole ballgame.