Comaparison to Facism.

[Darkwolf]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

I would much prefer the old Republic, but its gone. Both sides of the political spectrum(Republicans and Democrats) have conspired to kill it. Our current government is not Fascist or Communist, it is just a typical Imperialist power now.

I have to agree with you ludicris. What is becoming of the country is a mixture of the less flattering aspects of the new right and the new left. What is more, they are actively working together to acheive it while keeping most people fooled by the bitter opposition that they show to each other in public. We really need to wake up to the fact that slowly, quietly we have allowed them to make this into a one party state.

 

[Lucidus]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

I have to agree with you ludicris. What is becoming of the country is a mixture of the less flattering aspects of the new right and the new left. What is more, they are actively working together to acheive it while keeping most people fooled by the bitter opposition that they show to each other in public. We really need to wake up to the fact that slowly, quietly we have allowed them to make this into a one party state.[/b]

Yep, I think you are exactly right Darkwolf.

 

[CaryP]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

I have to agree with you ludicris. What is becoming of the country is a mixture of the less flattering aspects of the new right and the new left. What is more, they are actively working together to acheive it while keeping most people fooled by the bitter opposition that they show to each other in public. We really need to wake up to the fact that slowly, quietly we have allowed them to make this into a one party state.[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"lucidos\")</div>

I think a better comparison would be the U.S. of today to the Roman Republic just before it became an Empire. Don't get me wrong, I don't like our current government. I would much prefer the old Republic, but its gone. Both sides of the political spectrum(Republicans and Democrats) have conspired to kill it. Our current government is not Fascist or Communist, it is just a typical Imperialist power now. [/b]

And how is this not a facist or dictatorship state? You can play with semantics all you want. This ain't the "America" I grew up in.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"lucidos\")</div>

But, rants such as these are really rather meaningless. You have your opinion and I have mine. Meanwhile, great powers rise and fall. [/b]

Yeah, man. Meaningless until they come for you or someone you know, love, like, respect. Whatever. I respect that you have your opinion, and I have mine. We're cool.

Cary

 

[Lucidus]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"CaryP\")</div>

And how is this not a facist or dictatorship state? You can play with semantics all you want. This ain't the \"America\" I grew up in.

?

Yeah, man. Meaningless until they come for you or someone you know, love, like, respect. Whatever. I respect that you have your opinion, and I have mine. We're cool.

Cary[/b]

I would say that it is not a fascist state because, as one of the post above states:

7. Obsession with national security.

This does not characterize our government. They use it as a buzzword but do not actually defend the nation. My proof? Look at the border with Mexico, every year 1 million people cross this border illegally and our "fascist" government couldn't care less. And the government knows that Al Qeada is forming alliances with Latin American gangs involved in smuggling to get terrorist and materials into the country.

Imperialist by contrast, care only about economic concerns and favor the increase in American power abroad as a means to protect those economic concerns. Sure the Imperialist don't want another 9/11, because that was expensive but beyond that security is a secondary concern.

This is why our Imperialist government is willing to spend trillions on "defense" in the Middle East but only token efforts are made at home.

Our government is not a dictatorship(yet) because, because so far our presidents have only exercised the powers vested in them by the constitution, the courts, and the congress. Now these powers are far greater than the founding fathers intended, but this increase in executive power has been going on for well over one hundred years and has been celebrated by both major parties.

It seems more than just a little hypocritical that the left wing in this country has been so willing to enthusiastically support the concentration of power in Washington for so long, then cry fowl when they start to fear that power. Its kinda ironic.

This ain't the \"America\" I grew up in.

I envy you if you can remember another America. This is the America I grew up in, only more so.

Meaningless until they come for you or someone you know, love, like, respect.

I say meaningless because most Americans still believe that there is a difference between the two parties. Bashing Bush and his administration isn't going to change a thing. Count on it. Just like bashing Clinton didn't change anything either.

I respect that you have your opinion, and I have mine. We're cool.

Well, I respect your opinion too, but I respectfully disagree. And sorry about calling that link earlier moronic. You are certainly not moronic and I apologize. I should know better. It has been my experience that someone's political opinions do not correlate with intelligence, but rather with experience and memes, but that is another discussion entirely.

P.S. Thanks for the Raimado article, I read his columns occasionally and really enjoy them. But as the article makes clear, we are not currently in a fascist state but rather one more major terrorist attack from it. This much I can agree with and if it comes to pass(God forbid) then everyone will understand that what we have now is clearly not fascism.

 

[CaryP]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

Well, I respect your opinion too, but I respectfully disagree. And sorry about calling that link earlier moronic. You are certainly not moronic and I apologize. I should know better. It has been my experience that someone's political opinions do not correlate with intelligence, but rather with experience and memes, but that is another discussion entirely.

P.S. Thanks for the Raimado article, I read his columns occasionally and really enjoy them. But as the article makes clear, we are not currently in a fascist state but rather one more major terrorist attack from it. This much I can agree with and if it comes to pass(God forbid) then everyone will understand that what we have now is clearly not fascism. ?

Hey lucidus,

I'm cool with it. We disagree. Maybe I should put a finer point on my perspecitve. We're headed towards facism in a big way IMO. Maybe we're not quite "there yet" but as you say, we're one attack away from it. I agree that the U.S. has become an empire. One that is bankrupting itself to keep the empire in place. Much like all the empires throughout history. Rome and the UK being the most obvious examples. As to my political opinion/affiliation, I'm about as Libertarian as one can get. I'm no "left winger." I was a life long Republican til W got in and the Republican agenda got hijacked by the neocons. I can't stand either the demopublicans or republicrats. They've morphed into almost the same party IMO. No big differences between them except for campaign rhetoric designed to make them look different, but it's all shades of the same thing. But looking back, that's been going on for a while now.

As for the border not being managed, I agree with you. My take is that this is being allowed to facilitate the next "thing" that pushes us to facism. In the meantime, the middle class is slowly being wiped out financially, but that's another thread topic which has been started here. Those in power want to stay there and consolidate that power. A facist state facilitates that. Simply preserving the empire doesn't necessarily do that, especially in the event of an economic collapse. Just my perspective.

Cary

 

[Judge Bean]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"CaryP\")</div>

We're headed towards facism in a big way IMO. Maybe we're not quite \"there yet\" but as you say, we're one attack away from it. ...As to my political opinion/affiliation, I'm about as Libertarian as one can get. I'm no \"left winger.\" I was a life long Republican til W got in and the Republican agenda got hijacked by the neocons. I can't stand either the demopublicans or republicrats. They've morphed into almost the same party IMO. No big differences between them except for campaign rhetoric designed to make them look different, but it's all shades of the same thing. But looking back, that's been going on for a while now.
[/b]

Perhaps it bears repeating here that fascism seems to take root as a kind of apolitical parasite bearing all of the marks but none of the essence of a true political system-- it is a blunt instrument of power, the equivalent of a pistol aimed at the national temple. But in the beginning, before it has had a chance to consolidate its power base, it pretends to be a civilized system of political discourse.

Now they have effectively erased the meaning of the labels we are accustomed to using to describe our political beliefs. Now there is only the government, bent on concentrating and broadening its power, and the people, who must apparently give it up to the authorities.

Look at it this way: Bush has done nothing so far to expand or secure civil rights, make peace in the world, or find compromises and solutions to social problems. He has instituted a regime of centralized power catering to the military and a notion of national destiny involving invasions, blind "morality," and selfrighteous anger. He has demonized an entire race, one that is easily-identifiable and practices an exotic religion, which has stabbed us in the back, requiring severe domestic security measures. On top of all of that, the economy is a wreck and requires simplistic and jingoistic relief.

Enough said.

 

[StarLord]

Re: Comaparison to Facism.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Paul J. Lyon\")</div>

Look at it this way: Bush has done nothing so far to expand or secure civil rights, make peace in the world, or find compromises and solutions to social problems. He has instituted a regime of centralized power catering to the military and a notion of national destiny involving invasions, blind \"morality,\" and selfrighteous anger. He has demonized an entire race, one that is easily-identifiable and practices an exotic religion, which has stabbed us in the back, requiring severe domestic security measures. On top of all of that, the economy is a wreck and requires simplistic and jingoistic relief.
Enough said.[/b]

Yes, but look at what a wonderful job he's done at it! Not many others before him have done so much to so many in such a short amount of time for so few.

I'd say that certainly deserves a gargutan party and to be drawn and quartered don't you? Let us not be stingy and wanting in deserving notice.