Democratic Woes

[Harte]

It's semantics . There's been multiple iterations.



I'll agree with you there. I'd like to say that I was making a point with that comment based on the political lean of the writer. But I wasn't.



I'll agree with you with regard to the fact that lifelong politicians should know what they realistically can and cannot get done, but they lie just the same to get elected.

Let's not make Trump out to be a saint, though. Trump lied to get elected and he continues to lie.

I don't think that there is a person on the planet that would consider Trump to be saint like in any aspect - before or after his election.
Please tell us, what "lies" got Trump elected?

What people claim as "lies" from Trump are actually just Trump talking like ordinary people talk.

Harte

 

[Cirrus]

I don't think that there is a person on the planet that would consider Trump to be saint like in any aspect - before or after his election.
Please tell us, what "lies" got Trump elected?

What people claim as "lies" from Trump are actually just Trump talking like ordinary people talk.

Harte

Lies that aided Trump in getting elected (in no particular order):

1. Trump campaign had no contact with Russia or Russian operatives. We know that Donald Trump Jr. was trying to get intel on Clinton from Moscow. There's a lot of smoke here... too much for there not to be a fire.

2. "Lock her up" rally cry along with "where's her e-mails?". I don't see Hillary in handcuffs, do you? Granted, I am not a fan of Hillary and believe that she likely did some of the things she's accused of but there does not seem to be enough to actually indict. The rally cry was a lie. Trump was never going to put her in jail. I still think Hillary and Trump had a deal prior to their campaigns.

3. Hush money to the porn stars. Yes, this should really be a "nothing" as far as politicians go, but he needed to keep this quiet as it would've affected his campaign and his conservative religious supporters. Trump also used the National Enquirer to kill these stories. For a guy who hates "fake news" being best buddies with the National Enquirer is dubious.

4. Trump University. Trump played it off as a "nothing". It's not. He was stealing.

5. Everything Trump directed and demanded Cohen do during the campaign. There's a lot more to this story that has yet to be revealed.

6. Trump campaign's "relationship" with Julian Assange.

7. Everything collected here.

You could come up with a list for most politicians, but Trump has some doozies. This isn't just ordinary people talk. That and Trump is not an ordinary person.... far from it.

 

[Einstein]

Lies that aided Trump in getting elected (in no particular order):

1. Trump campaign had no contact with Russia or Russian operatives. We know that Donald Trump Jr. was trying to get intel on Clinton from Moscow. There's a lot of smoke here... too much for there not to be a fire.

2. "Lock her up" rally cry along with "where's her e-mails?". I don't see Hillary in handcuffs, do you? Granted, I am not a fan of Hillary and believe that she likely did some of the things she's accused of but there does not seem to be enough to actually indict. The rally cry was a lie. Trump was never going to put her in jail. I still think Hillary and Trump had a deal prior to their campaigns.

3. Hush money to the porn stars. Yes, this should really be a "nothing" as far as politicians go, but he needed to keep this quiet as it would've affected his campaign and his conservative religious supporters. Trump also used the National Enquirer to kill these stories. For a guy who hates "fake news" being best buddies with the National Enquirer is dubious.

4. Trump University. Trump played it off as a "nothing". It's not. He was stealing.

5. Everything Trump directed and demanded Cohen do during the campaign. There's a lot more to this story that has yet to be revealed.

6. Trump campaign's "relationship" with Julian Assange.

7. Everything collected here.

You could come up with a list for most politicians, but Trump has some doozies. This isn't just ordinary people talk. That and Trump is not an ordinary person.... far from it.

I don't see anything here from credible sources. Just fabricated claims. You appear to be a victim of a hoax.

 

[Cirrus]

I don't see anything here from credible sources. Just fabricated claims. You appear to be a victim of a hoax.

Um, sure. You're right: I didn't provide a link for every claim because I could provide a thousand for each one. That being said... I did link to the Toronto Star... which is a left-center newspaper.

You can't really think that all of the claims are fabricated, right?

 

[Einstein]

Um, sure. You're right: I didn't provide a link for every claim because I could provide a thousand for each one. That being said... I did link to the Toronto Star... which is a left-center newspaper.

You can't really think that all of the claims are fabricated, right?

With no credible source, all claims are moot. You forget that the press has freedom to say anything. Lies and deception appear to be the sole reason for their persistence.

 

[Cirrus]

With no credible source, all claims are moot. You forget that the press has freedom to say anything. Lies and deception appear to be the sole reason for their persistence.

Define "credible source".

I'd rather have a news source that gives just the facts and let the reader make the determination as to how the reader feels about the subject matter. Unfortunately, no such news source exists.

 

[Cirrus]

Also... I'm glad I could stimulate some conversation on here even if you all disagree with me .

Now, where's Harriet? I had an appointment with her and she hasn't shown up yet.

 

[Harte]

Lies that aided Trump in getting elected (in no particular order):

1. Trump campaign had no contact with Russia or Russian operatives. We know that Donald Trump Jr. was trying to get intel on Clinton from Moscow. There's a lot of smoke here... too much for there not to be a fire.

2. "Lock her up" rally cry along with "where's her e-mails?". I don't see Hillary in handcuffs, do you? Granted, I am not a fan of Hillary and believe that she likely did some of the things she's accused of but there does not seem to be enough to actually indict. The rally cry was a lie. Trump was never going to put her in jail. I still think Hillary and Trump had a deal prior to their campaigns.

3. Hush money to the porn stars. Yes, this should really be a "nothing" as far as politicians go, but he needed to keep this quiet as it would've affected his campaign and his conservative religious supporters. Trump also used the National Enquirer to kill these stories. For a guy who hates "fake news" being best buddies with the National Enquirer is dubious.

4. Trump University. Trump played it off as a "nothing". It's not. He was stealing.

5. Everything Trump directed and demanded Cohen do during the campaign. There's a lot more to this story that has yet to be revealed.

6. Trump campaign's "relationship" with Julian Assange.

7. Everything collected here.

You could come up with a list for most politicians, but Trump has some doozies. This isn't just ordinary people talk. That and Trump is not an ordinary person.... far from it.

Not one of those things had any effect on his election. After all, they all came out during the campaign, didn't they? Why did he then win?

Trump Jr. wasn't "trying to get intel on Hillary" from the Russians. A person that turned out to be a part-time Russian informant approached Trump Jr. claiming to have the dirt. Given that Hillary's campaign not only relied on ACTUAL Russian reports that they even PAID for, I think this amounts to less than a hill of beans, especially considering the Russian only used "dirt on Hillary" to get in the door and actually had other things they wanted to discuss (and nothing about Hillary.)

"Lock her up" was a rallying cry, not a promise. Besides, his term ain't over yet.

"Hush money to the porn stars?" A perfect example of what I already said concerning what everyone with a brain knew about Trump, even before he declared his intention to run.

Trump University was using the same tactics that almost all the for-profit universities were (and are) using. This only came to the eventual conclusion it did because Trump ran for office.

Re Cohen, that's just a load of hogwash. Please tell us exactly how Trump lied about any of that and won because of his lie. You're back to paying off porn stars for flings that happened a decade before he declared his candidacy. Again, we already knew all about his hound dogging, but he won anyway didn't he?

Your collection of linked claimed lies - total hatchet job. Again, Trump talks like normal people, having not lived his life as a politician.
If you want, maybe you could pick a few "whoppers" from your link and explain how they helped Trump win but were blatantly false. I didn't see anything there like that. Maybe you do.

Harte

 

[Cirrus]

Not one of those things had any effect on his election. After all, they all came out during the campaign, didn't they? Why did he then win?

Sounds like you believe one version of the truth and I believe another. Neither side is really the truth, but we each believe that our perspective is closer to it.

Trust me, I've tried to see it your way. I've asked myself "what am I missing" and tried to analyze the situation from your side of the fence. I still trend toward Trump being a liar and people continue to eat his lies up like they are the truth. Those lies, even the little ones, helped him win.

Trump is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like normal people. He talks like someone who was spoon-fed millions and expects that he's going to get what he wants, when he wants it because that's just been his life experience. The guy can't even have a real conversation with a 7-year old on Christmas without almost blowing the lid on Santa ("At 7 it's marginal, right"... he expected a 7-year old to know what "marginal" meant in that context). There is nothing "normal" about the way Trump talks.

 

[Kairos]

"version of the truth"