GOD:True or false

Grayson

Conspiracy Cafe
Messages
1,117
Re: GOD:True or false

All living organisms constantly compete for limited resources. Organisms that are better equipped then others in coping with their environment, have a better chance of surviving and thus replicating themselves and their genes. This mechanism is the essence of evolution. Evolution, in turn, is one of the three essential ingredients of life itself. Life on earth began with the process of evolution. Without evolution, there can be no life.

The evolution of man conveyed to him advanced traits that positioned him above other animals on the ladder of evolution. His primary battle for survival, comfort and prosperity involved constant competition and conflict with his untamed environment, with nature. He perpetually faced danger, not only by competing human beings, but also by adverse natural events such as floods, hurricanes, droughts, thunderstorms and many other perils of nature.

Man was able to cope successfully with some adversities, but he felt powerless to deal with many other events in nature that filled him with fear and awe. A thunderstorm often turned out to be the precursor of more serious events such as rains, floods or hail. Thunder and lightning made primitive man wonder if superior beings inhabited an invisible world in the sky and invoked various cataclysmic events.

It would be natural for humanoids to appeal to such superior beings in the sky in order to solicit their help. It seemed reasonable to assume that these powerful, superior beings, these gods, were punishing humans for unknown reasons or merely for their pleasure. From this viewpoint, it required little imagination to try to appease these gods by appealing to them by means of prayers or by sacrifices of men or beasts.

Sometimes these prayers and sacrifices seemed to bear fruit and sometimes they did not show any results whatsoever. Due to his lack of knowledge, it was difficult for primitive man to distinguish between miracles and cause/effect relationships. He merely presumed that prayers were sometimes effective in appealing to the gods. When a violent storm eased, he attributed the event more to the effect of his prayers, than to the fact that dry air had just replaced a cold front. Man had no insight in the processes of nature. He lacked knowledge, science and rationality.

Since prayers and sacrifices seemed to be effective at times, man ascribed their lack of effectiveness at other times to improper or insufficient prayers or sacrifices. Unpredictable responses to his prayers generated feelings of fear and awe and strengthened his submission to his newly created gods.

We can trace the origins of religion to the prehistoric development of man between 500,000 and 100,000 years B.C. It was during this long period of human evolution that religious emotions and motivations became hard-wired into the human brain and genes.

During subsequent periods of human evolution, from hominoids to Neanderthal man to Cro-Magnon man, these primitive forms of religion imbedded themselves ever more firmly into the genes of human beings. These genes for susceptibility to religion and superstition remain among of the most pervasive and powerful motivators of man.

By means of prayers and alleged miracles, religion provides the illusion of security and comfort in this life and the promise of a splendiferous life after death, What more could man ask for?

After witch doctors and shamans had established the illusion that gods had control over life and death, it required only a brief leap of the imagination to extend their power to the ability to grant a life beyond physical death. An afterlife seemed plausible and appeared highly desirable. After all, nobody wants to face death; nobody likes to face a state of nonexistence after his physical death. It is much more palatable to think of death as the beginning of a new life in which the essential part of our organism will continue on to a new and improved phase of existence.

Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.

It hard-wired itself into human emotional behavior patterns because it actually entailed hidden benefits for physical survival. Religion became synonymous with a sense of awe and fear of the gods. Gods had become omnipotent, not only with regard to normal human existence, but also with regard to a continued existence after death.

Whereas prehistoric human societies benefited from the belief in the supernatural, the opposite situation prevails in our modern world, a world dominated by a thin veneer of rationality covering the emotion-based motivations of our ancient reptilian brain.

Man?s environmental conditions have changed drastically during the last 100,000 years. Science has transformed nature from a force that man feared and held in awe, to a force that is subservient to him. Untamed nature was, and still is, man?s greatest enemy. However, man no longer fears nature. Man has tamed nature and he now dominates nature to a very high degree.

The persistent presence of religious belief systems within modern society restrains rational thought processes. Religion is the essence of irrationality and is a poor substitute for factual, scientific knowledge. Religion, magic and superstition do not provide any results because they rely on inherently faulty premises.

Science and rationality, based on knowledge and logic, has evolved as the only reliable method for achieving desired results. Scientists do not pray when a rocket takes off for outer space, they utilize technology and rely on science.

Only during the last one hundred thousand years did evolutionary pressures bring about a new and extremely powerful tool, the rational mind. Rationality relies on reason and logic, instead of superstition, to achieve desired results. Rationality coincided with the development of science.

The cerebral cortex of our brain, our convoluted gray matter, our complex thinking apparatus, our central processing unit, is a relatively recent addition to our brain. Our cerebrum enhanced the more primitive underlying limbic system, the seat of our ancient emotions and our innate temperament. The limbic system is like an old-fashioned hammer, simple, sturdy and rugged.

On the other hand, our cerebral cortex is like a computer: Complex, maintenance intensive, fragile, but capable of speeds and functions unheard of in the days when man had no tools other than a hammer.

We are still using the hammer, just as we are still using our limbic system. However, we have improved the quality of our lives immensely by using our new computer tool, by using our cerebral cortex. Other animals still operate essentially with their limbic system. Modern man has achieved complete superiority over other animals by developing his rational mind.

As we enter the third millennium, the scientific approach to human affairs is beginning to supersede the obsolete, ineffective reliance on a god or gods. Religion is still powerful, but it has lost the all-pervasive stranglehold on human affairs that it held a mere five hundred years ago

As recent as the Middle Ages, clerics and churches dominated the worldly affairs of humanity. Since the end of the eighteenth century, since the Age of Enlightenment, religion has taken a backseat in managing the affairs of state. Man has become tired of exploitation by kings and bishops.

Many people may still pray for intervention by the gods. Prayers are requests by confessedly unworthy persons to have the laws of the universe repealed in their favor.

However, it is obvious to any rational, intelligent observer that prayer is not as efficacious in solving problems as the rational mind, just as medical quackery and herbal extracts are no substitute for heart surgery and penicillin. The difference between herbal remedies and penicillin reflects the difference between the primitive limbic system and the highly advanced cerebral cortex.

Discussions regarding religion often revolve around the question: Does god exist? What do we mean when we say that something exists? As far as human beings are concerned, nothing exists unless it manifests itself in some form, shape or manner to man or to his extended sensory perceptions.

If something is claimed to exist but does not impinge on man in any way whatsoever, we can safely say that it does not exist as far as human existence is concerned. This undefined mirage may still exist somewhere in the universe or another universe. However, since this alleged object or event does not manifest itself to us, it does not affect us in any way whatsoever and we must simply state that it does not exist.

Religious people argue that, although they cannot positively prove that god exists, the atheists cannot prove that god does not exist. This argument embodies several fallacies.

It is logically impossible to prove that an object or event does not exist. However, it is not only possible but is exceedingly common to prove that something does exist. If something exists, it manifests itself to us by objective evidence. It is also axiomatic in the affairs of man, and steeped in common sense that, whoever makes a claim, has to prove its validity. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Whoever might claim that the moon is made of green cheese has to prove that the moon actually consists of green cheese, instead of rock, as established by previous, hard, factual, objective evidence. It is logically impossible and nonsensical to demand that, whoever does not accept the claim that the moon is made of green cheese, should disprove it.

Only persons, who do not utilize logic, will accept as true statements that are completely unsupported by factual evidence. Yet, this form of irrationality and lack of fundamental logic is the foundation of all religions. Since approximately 80 % of the world population accepts the completely unsubstantiated statements of various religions, 80 % of the world population suffers from a severely distorted and ineffective worldview

Christian dogma expects people to believe the fairy tale of Noah?s ark, although it is patently impossible to squeeze even samples of all the world?s animals into one small ark. Rational persons consider such stories as ludicrous and yet, such is the power of religion, that the majority of the people on earth accept such fairytales as facts.

The bible account of the creation of man and the universe, as outlined in the Book of Genesis, is so much in contradiction with irrefutable facts that a rational person cannot help but laugh about such fantasies. It may be all right for children to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, but adults are supposed to outgrow such fairytales

Where was the Jewish God Jehovah, when Hitler incinerated five million of his chosen people; where was the Buddha when Truman vaporized 250,000 Japanese women and children; where was the Christian God when Stalin killed thirty million human beings?

It defies rationality when religious persons pray to these same gods for individualized help and salvation.

Pascal's Wager

Another favorite statement by religious philosophers refers to Pascal?s Wager. Pascal was an eminent seventeenth century mathematician who struggled with the contradictions presented by Christian theology.

His wager consists of the statement: It is advantageous to believe in god because the worst thing that can happen is that you have spent your life believing in something that is untrue and you will end up just as dead as everyone else will. However, if you do not believe in god and if god actually exists, then god?s actual existence will matter in the extreme because you will be in big trouble with Him.

The problem with Pascal?s wager lies in the reality hat a person cannot pretend to believe in God just for the sake of a wager. The obvious insincerity in pretending a belief in God for the purpose of a wager makes an actual belief in God impossible.

Theologians have used Pascal?s wager to admonish people to believe in God, just in case. This situation justifies the old definition of theologians as persons who are looking in a coal-bin on a dark night for a black cat that is not there.

The Epicurean Postulate

It is pointless to get involved in endless discussions regarding the existence or non-existence of god and his moral qualities. Such nonsensical and unproductive discussions have raged for the last three thousand years.

One of the problems in theism, the belief system involving a personal god, revolves around the existence of evil and the resulting inconsistency in the concept of an omnipotent god.

The mere existence of evil in this world makes the existence of a benign god impossible: If god were omnipotent, he could eliminate evil and if he were benign, he would want to do so. Furthermore, if god were all-good, as he is supposed to be, he could not sin. However, if he were all-powerful, he could sin.

The Greek philosopher Epicurus illuminated this dilemma in 300 BC:

If God is willing to prevent evil but is not able to prevent evil, then he is not omnipotent.

If God is able to prevent evil but is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not benevolent.

Evil is either in accordance with God?s intention or contrary to it.

Thus, either God cannot prevent evil or he does not want to prevent evil.

Therefore, it follows that God is either not omnipotent or he is not benevolent. He cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent.

The Existence of God

Religious people pursue their religion because they have blocked their rationality in all matters pertaining to religion. They are impervious to the contradictions, logical inconsistencies and other obstacles to the existence of a personal, omnipotent god. They need an omnipotent, omniscient god to lean on. They prefer to walk through life with blinders so that the harsh facts of Objective Reality will not frighten them.

There is no need to prove or disprove the existence of god or gods. The mere fact that no god has ever manifested himself in any form, shape or manner, eliminates any reliance we can place on him or any attention we need to pay to him.

As far as modern man is concerned, gods or other supposedly omnipotent beings never have and do not now interact with man. As far as we, as human beings, are concerned, gods do not exist because they do not manifest themselves to us or interact with us.

For the sake of argument, some people suggest that gods may exist in some other universe or plane of existence where we cannot be aware of them. However, as long as these nebulous, hidden gods do not interact with human beings in our universe, we need not concern ourselves with such extra-celestial god or gods.

In order to prove the existence of gods and other super-natural beings, adherents of religions have often been suggested that some people hear voices or see visions involving ethereal superior beings, gods, angels, virgins, the dear departed and other ephemeral appearances.

Photography has been available for the last 150 years. However, nobody has ever captured an image of God or of any other supernatural mirages. If these phantoms cannot even re-arrange a few electrons by leaving an impression on photographic film, how are they going to interact with us or help us?

The Origins of God and the Universe

Another dilemma that frequently arises in discussions of religion revolves around the origin of God and the universe. If God made the universe, as he is claimed to have done, who or what created God? Did God create himself? Religious persons find it exceedingly difficult to answer this question.

Lacking a rational response, they phrase their reply in the simplistic question, "God must have made the universe. If God did not make the universe, who or what created it?" Thus, they evade the issue and place the burden of proof on the person who asked the question.

Only one answer is possible in response to this question: Nobody knows who made this alleged god, but it certainly could not have been another god. Otherwise, the god-creating god would be the real god, instead of the god whom he created.

Another favorite response to the question of who made god tries to stipulate that God has always existed. Therefore, there was no need to create god. This argument is somewhat circular. Nobody has ever proven that god exists, much less that he has always existed. We will concern ourselves with the creation of god after somebody has factually established that god even exists.

Maybe man will never know the conundrum of the creation of the universe. Maybe he will at some distant time in the future. However, ordinary human beings do not need an answer to this question because any answer would be irrelevant to human existence and happiness. Whatever we may find, it is extremely unlikely that the ultimate answer to the secrets of the universe will reveal a God with a flowing white beard who answers human prayers.

We can find an interesting insight in the scientific aspect of this question in the inflation theory. This theory tries to explain the cause of the Big Bang in terms of the destruction of the total symmetry of the original vacuum by a quantum fluctuation. Well, maybe. This answer is just as incomprehensible as the creation of a non-existent god.

Understanding the creation of the universe and knowing what lies on the other side of the Big Bang does not have the slightest effect on our happiness. We enhance our happiness, our emotional state of well being, by minimizing pain and by maximizing our alignment with Reality, by understanding how life really works...

Does God exist, or was he merely an Astronaut?

Do you really care either way?
 

Eutychus

Junior Member
Messages
37
Re: GOD:True or false

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
Without evolution, there can be no life.[/b]

So the first evidence of life on earth evolved its way from an inanimate clump of chemicals into something that can eat, excrete, grow, and reproduce in such a way as to pass along complex genetic information(even the simplest genomes are pretty complicated) and improve upon itself in the process. That's pretty impressive dirt.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
Science and rationality, based on knowledge and logic, has evolved as the only reliable method for achieving desired results.[/b]

Gray, if you happen to have a significant other, was it science or rationality that won them over? Some of the most desired results in life totally defy reason.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
The cerebral cortex of our brain, our convoluted gray matter, our complex thinking apparatus, our central processing unit, is a relatively recent addition to our brain. Our cerebrum enhanced the more primitive underlying limbic system, the seat of our ancient emotions and our innate temperament. The limbic system is like an old-fashioned hammer, simple, sturdy and rugged.

On the other hand, our cerebral cortex is like a computer: Complex, maintenance intensive, fragile, but capable of speeds and functions unheard of in the days when man had no tools other than a hammer.

We are still using the hammer, just as we are still using our limbic system. However, we have improved the quality of our lives immensely by using our new computer tool, by using our cerebral cortex. Other animals still operate essentially with their limbic system. Modern man has achieved complete superiority over other animals by developing his rational mind.[/b]

At what point in this dance does consciousness enter the picture? How did consciousness enter the picture? First, chemicals come together in such a way as to nourish themselves, eliminate wastes, and reproduce themselves correctly. By what mechanism did the color of the walls become important to them? I have always viewed the brain as an interface unit by which a spiritual creature interacts with the physical world. And trust me, there is a difference between the brain and the conscious mind. I lived on the borderland between the two for about 13 years. Ever have an epileptic seizure? It's a fascinating experience. There is a point at the beginning of the seizure when you are aware that the brain is rapidly losing control of things, that it is awash in bioelectricity to the degree that it totally overwhelms the CPU. Kind of like the blue screen of death in Windows 95. I knew that my brain was out of the picture for the moment, but I was still thinking about my situation. If the brain is the source of the mind and it was incapacitated, how was I thinking trying to work my way out of the seizure? The brain also hadn't better be the source of the mind or the source of who we are because if that's true, then I am currently less than a full person. I'm operating with 3/4s of a brain and seizure free, but I don't feel like 3/4s of a person. I am exactly the person I was before the surgery (minus the convulsions) and in many ways better on the intelligence scale. I scored in the low 150s on IQ tests before the surgeries and in the low 170s after. This tells me there is more to the mind than the brain.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
Many people may still pray for intervention by the gods. Prayers are requests by confessedly unworthy persons to have the laws of the universe repealed in their favor.[/b]

Actually, I always pictured prayer as original research into the subject of spirituality. It's an interesting form of research that allows the experimenter to learn as much about himself as he learns about the object of study. I doubt there are many folks who pray for natural laws to be bent to their advantage

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
However, it is obvious to any rational, intelligent observer that prayer is not as efficacious in solving problems as the rational mind[/b]

First off, this statement is arrogant as hell in that you are asserting that those who converse with God are neither rational nor intelligent. God gave us a mind capable of reasoning things out, and I suspect he gets a little frustrated with those of us who choose not to use those abilities. But I'm sure he's also pleased by those who choose to ask him to enter into their circumstances.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
Christian dogma expects people to believe the fairy tale of Noah?s ark, although it is patently impossible to squeeze even samples of all the world?s animals into one small ark. Rational persons consider such stories as ludicrous and yet, such is the power of religion, that the majority of the people on earth accept such fairytales as facts.[/b]

Gray, Noah was told to take a pair of every "kind" of animal, not every species. Bovine, procine, canine, feline, equine, etc. The numbers drop drastically. You know, there is a reasonable answer to every objection out there on the subject of God and his relationship to his creation, but if you don't want there to be a God, you'll find an out every time.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
The mere existence of evil in this world makes the existence of a benign god impossible: If god were omnipotent, he could eliminate evil and if he were benign, he would want to do so. [/b]

Gray, to act as you suggest would mean that God merely treats people as a means to an end. He would have no respect for us, cutting off our desire to act independently before the line could be crossed. That would make him a tyrant, probably not worthy of worship even by your standards. As to eliminating evil and not doing so, God is in the redemption business, making something good from something that went awry, not the "keep it from turning bad in the first place" business.
 

sosuemetoo

Active Member
Messages
723
Re: GOD:True or false

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div>
Religious people argue that, although they cannot positively prove that god exists, the atheists cannot prove that god does not exist. This argument embodies several fallacies. [/b]

This is so true, and really states why people are at odds. There is no definitive proof that God exists except through our faiths and beliefs. It is not like a TT that we hope to debunk with facts. It is personal experiences that each make us believe differently. I believe in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. Can I convince you? Maybe, but it is based on personal experience. If you cannot "relate" to my personal experience or background, you may not be convinced.

It defies rationality when religious persons pray to these same gods for individualized help and salvation.

You know what I wonder? What if we are all praying to the same God? We all have our own beliefs, cultures, etc. But what if we were all praying to the same God? Praying for the same thing? And here we argue about our beliefs while praying to the same God?
The Greek philosopher Epicurus illuminated this dilemma in 300 BC:

If God is willing to prevent evil but is not able to prevent evil, then he is not omnipotent.

If God is able to prevent evil but is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not benevolent.

Evil is either in accordance with God?s intention or contrary to it.

Thus, either God cannot prevent evil or he does not want to prevent evil.

Therefore, it follows that God is either not omnipotent or he is not benevolent. He cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent.

I remember this argument from Philosophy class in college. My counter argument: God does not give us anything that we cannot handle. He/She (Kira :) ) gives us the strength to handle each day. He/she makes us stronger with each bad thing that happens. Therefore we are made stronger.

Another favorite response to the question of who made god tries to stipulate that God has always existed. Therefore, there was no need to create god. This argument is somewhat circular. Nobody has ever proven that god exists, much less that he has always existed. We will concern ourselves with the creation of god after somebody has factually established that god even exists
.

This is what my faith/belief system is based on. We had to have something originally that is supreme that is omnipotent and everlasting. Something original. A beginning and an end. Everything does ... but God does not.

This answer is just as incomprehensible as the creation of a non-existent god.

My answer is that that all will be revealed to me and everyone else in "time" through God.

Does God exist, or was he merely an Astronaut?

I think He/She does care. He/she does exist, and wants the best for you. Proof? I just have faith that carries me each and every day. I believe that God gives me that

Do you really care either way?

Yes I do. Not just in this lifetime, but in my everlasting life. Thus another argument ;)
 

Grayson

Conspiracy Cafe
Messages
1,117
Re: GOD:True or false

Oohhhhh, I love this place...

But, to the debate-mobile...

Ever since man started praying to gods, religion has grown as an institutional power. Until the eighteenth century, the Age of Enlightenment, religion had organized itself into the dominant power governing all spiritual and secular affairs of man. Prior to 1700 AD, all affairs of society were under the domination of religious hierarchies.

In the process of wielding its enormous power, religious institutions have held the human race in a vice-grip of irrationality and have made every conceivable effort to suppress rationality and science. Only in 1998 did the Roman Catholic Church admit its error when it condemned Galileo in 1543 for pronouncing that the earth revolved around the sun, instead of having the sun revolve around the earth as demanded by the Bible.

Only the complete absurdity of its position forced the Pope to admit grudgingly that there might be some validity to the theory of evolution. He then explained the previous lapse by proclaiming that God had arranged for evolution to take place.

Evolution is a scientific fact and a Law of Nature. Evolution is not a theory any more than the Theory of Relativity is a theory. Institutional religion has oppressed rationality and has held humankind in a devastating chokehold for more than 2000 years.

We will gain nothing by describing the horrors that religions have inflicted on humanity in the name of their gods. From the crusades and the inquisition, to its devastating cooperation with the aristocracy in fettering and enslaving man?s body and man?s mind, religion has taken a heavy toll on humankind and on rationality

The horrors of religious institutions are now obsolete and part of the past. As we enter the third millennium, the power of religious institutions is waning, albeit far from dead. The influence of organized religion on the affairs of man is declining steadily. This development is due to such events as the French Revolution, the United States Constitution and the inevitable spread of democracy as the only political system seen to be compatible with freedom and the innate nature of man.

Man still interacts with religious institutions on the individual level but the political power of the church over the affairs of man has disappeared, with the temporary exception of a few Islamic nations.

This drastic change in societal power struggles was a product of the Age of Enlightenment. This step up the ladder of evolution was the result of the rational intellect of a new breed of philosophers like Voltaire, Rousseau and Locke. Their visions of a social contract replaced the institutions of feudalistic and religious slavery.

The advances in the enlightenment of man over the last five hundred years were pioneered by a few intellectual giants and by a small minority of rational, intelligent philosophers, scientists and visionary firebrands. A large majority of humanity still goes to church on Sunday, fears its gods and prays for salvation

The masses of men remain emotion-driven animals that have neither the intelligence nor the fortitude to throw off the shackles of religious irrationality. The man who goes to church and prays to god is still carrying the demon of religion on his back.

The next step in the evolution of man must wait until the mass of men has evolved to a higher plane. Intellectual freedom and honesty will allow man?s rational mind to exert its full powers and will enable man to assert a higher degree of control over his primitive emotional system

A rational examination of the origins and sources of religion, as well as the benefits and disadvantages of religion, is unlikely to change the mind of anyone who is afraid to examine these concepts objectively.

People who approach the subject of religion with trepidation or who cannot distinguish between reality and superstition, find it difficult to apply logic to their thought processes. It is much easier to belief in miracles and pseudo-science than to acquire facts and engage in incisive, rational thought.

We can observe many members of society who appear to be intelligent and rational in the pursuit of their daily life. However, on Sundays they go to their church or temple. There they participate in incomprehensible and irrational rituals involving magic, prayer and other activities demeaning to their rational minds. Their rational mind tells them that a god does not exist and yet, there they sit and pray to him.

It has been suggested that religious people compartmentalize their thought processes in order to avoid otherwise inevitable and destructive conflicts. In this manner, rational and irrational thought processes can coexist in separate, locked compartments of the brain without connectivity. Yet, one wonders if there is some inevitable leakage from the irrational to the rational compartment, surreptitiously contaminating rationality.

Even some bright people may feel too frightened to face life without the consolations of a religion, cult or sect. Their upbringing has imbued in them the belief that it is safer not to subject the teachings of one?s church or temple or mosque to close scrutiny. Furthermore, becoming an agnostic or atheist can cut one off from the comfort and companionship of co-believers in a religion. This potentially damaging consequence of doubting one?s belief system is a strong deterrent to questioning deeply imbedded religious beliefs.

Religion may also satisfy an irrational human need for cosmic significance. Some persons yearn to be more than the grain of sand in the vastness of the universe that man really is. As long as men and women feel week and insignificant in the face of awe-inspiring natural forces, logic will not be as important as religion and man will prefer the sanctuary of imaginary, all-powerful beings.

Thus, people tend to associate in communities of like-minded people. Believers restrict their circle of friend and family to other believers. They surround themselves with mirror images of themselves.

If people wear blinkers successfully, then the young and na?ve among them hear nothing but the desired belief. No reputable person in his or her sphere of life ever disagrees with or objects to the tenets of their common belief system. As time goes on, people in a mentally incestuous society consider it normal that all seemingly intelligent people believe as the community believes.

When a believer encounters non-believers, the shock may be great. The believer asks, "How can they not believe? Doesn?t everyone believe?" The believing community usually provides a convenient answer to that question: The non-believers are evil or they are possessed by an evil power. If you hang around them enough it might be contagious.

As a result, the believer becomes paranoid and afraid of non-believers, because he fails to understand that non-believers do not need to believe in anything. Non-believers rely on reason, logic and the factual evidence of the real world.

Instead, the believer sees non-believers as abnormal and undesirable. Thus, religious belief maintains itself through self-affirmation, insulation and demonization of non-believers.

The archaic belief systems of religion and the supernatural are the dominion of primitive, prehistoric man. Modern man is engaged in the accelerating process of replacing religion and superstition with science and rationality. Superstition and religion will eventually disappear in the dustbin of human history.

However, evolution is an excruciatingly slow process, and the institutions of witchcraft, religion and the supernatural are in no eminent danger of demise. Evolution is unappeasable and relentless, but it deals in centuries and millennia, not in years or decades.

What does the future hold for the conflict between rationality and religion? We merely need to examine the underlying trend of evolution. Evolution will continue to exhibit the same trend that is has exhibited for the last four billion years. Evolution has steadily enhanced specialization by means of increased complexity.

It is interesting to note that the degree of involvement with the supernatural, including religion, is directly proportional to the degree of factual knowledge available to a person. The bell curve, depicting the graphic display of variances in intelligence within a population, places 80% of the U. S. population in the I.Q. range from 85 to 115.

It is interesting to note that 90 % of the U. S. population is also involved in religions or other irrational belief systems. The September 1999 issue of the prestigious Scientific American magazine published a repeat-survey, confirming previous surveys:

Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor these beliefs in religion and merely 10% of notable scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife. Contrary to the notion fostered by so-called creation-scientists, Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal god.

Eutychus: That was the finest rebuttal argument that I have enjoyed here on a religious debate, I salute you. Curiously, I am a believer in God. It is difficult to have survived 4 cancer episodes and not believe. 'Sides that, without God, I'd've never been born. I just like to argue...

Sue: Good, but traditional reply there.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Re: GOD:True or false

The next step to spirituality should simplify all this speculation tremendously. Actually experiencing the higher planes for yourself, along with 'waking' up in the dream state and realizing that you are asleep, your body is not moving, snoring away, and you recognize that you are awake and else where. This is one of the first steps upon the spiritual path.

From this point much of what we 'knew' will change drastically as the spititual path will change from conjecture and interpretation of out dated written works to present day interpretation of real experience. This will not be the first time this has happened on this planet.
 

Grayson

Conspiracy Cafe
Messages
1,117
Re: GOD:True or false

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"I love stars\")</div>
??? What are you talking about? What has the title to do with what you're telling?[/b]

I agree. ;)
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Re: GOD:True or false

I am surprised you could not make that leap Grayson. Would you not agree there is a vast difference to actually experiencing God while living as opposed to reading old books and conjecturing what you think was written and having to wait till you check out to see how close you came?
 

Alpha and 0mega

Junior Member
Messages
88
Re: GOD:True or false

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"I love stars\")</div>
??? What are you talking about? What has the title to do with what you're telling?[/b]
i disagree,and think mighty starlord is right,always right.;)
 

Top