If the Universe Spun

D

denbo88

Junior Member
If the Universe Spun

I have been reading Michio Kaku's new book, Parallel Worlds and he mentions something that I never came across before.

He points out that many things around us spin from tops, to hurricanes, planets, galaxies and quasars. but the universe itself does NOT spin.
"When we look at the galaxies in the heavens, their total spin cancels out to zero. (This is quite fortunate, because, as we see in chapter 5, if the universe did spin, then time travel would become commonplace and history would be impossible to write.)" P. 95.

Can't wait to get to chapter 5.
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

No kidding Denbo. Let us know if Chapter 5 has anything revolutionary.

Cary
 

Re: If the Universe Spun

Since the universe does not spin, the question is, if time travel CAN occur in a spinning universe, can it occur within smaller systems such as solar systems or galaxies that DO spin?
 

Re: If the Universe Spun

Did they mean to say that the milkyway Galaxy does not spin?? Damn near every representation that I have seen shows it as spinning, much the same as a drain looks as the water just about empties from a sink...
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

Starlord,
Like I said, "..hurricanes, planets, GALAXIES and quasars" spin, but the net effect when all are totaled up is zero; its a wash. So the universe expands, but does not spin.
I just finished chapter 5 of Parallel Worlds and was disappointed by it. Basically, it lays out how Einstein's theory linking space and time into an inseparable unity and provides solutions various people have proposed to parts of Einstein's theory. "As a result, any wormhole that connects two distant points in space might also connect two distant points in time. In other words, Einstein's theory allows for the possibility of time travel". But Einstein was worried about the possibility of the "river of time" bending back on itself.

Two of several solutions Kaku discusses to Einstein's equations that permitted time travel: The first was W.J. Van Stocum's "spinning cylinder". "It would drag the fabric of space-time along with it, much like molasses is dragged along with the blades of a blender". As you made a complete trip around the cylinder, you could actually go back in time, returning before you left.

Then he discusses Kurt Godel's solution to Einsteins equations.
"He (Godel) assumed that the entire universe was rotating" (Which we know it doesn't so I don't see the validity to his theory). But if it did, "..every event in any time period can be visited, no matter how distant in the past. Because of gravity, there is a tendency for Godel's universe to collapse on itself. Hence, the centrifigal force of rotation must balance this gravitational force. In other words, the universe must spin above a certain speed. For a universe our size, Godel calculated that it would have to rotate once every 70 billion years, and the minimum radius for time travel would be 16 billion light-years. To travel back in time, however you would have to travel just below the speed of light".

So as I see it, if time travel is possible only in a spinning universe, and the universe is not spinning, either time travel is not possible or something else equally as massive is spinning around it, like "Dark Matter" to cause this effect that we calculate/theorize in a spinning universe. An analogy might be an amusement park ride where you are spun around the perimeter of the ride and feel the centrifigal force. But imagine a ride where you are stationary but the perimeter spins instead. The force is still there but you are not positioned to feel it's effects. The dark matter, would be the perimeter mass. Could it cause the time travel effect as the spinning universe?
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"denbo88\")</div>
Since the universe does not spin, the question is, if time travel CAN occur in a spinning universe, can it occur within smaller systems such as solar systems or galaxies that DO spin? [/b]
Click to expand...

The universe is made of spacetime, not matter. A spinning universe implies a spin in a seperate dimension, otherwise the spin would define the universe's center, and we know that there is no such thing as the center of the universe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"denbo88\")</div>
So as I see it, if time travel is possible only in a spinning universe, and the universe is not spinning, either time travel is not possible or something else equally as massive is spinning around it, like \"Dark Matter\" to cause this effect that we calculate/theorize in a spinning universe. [/b]
Click to expand...

The flaw here is in the first statement. You have presented no evidence or argument that time travel is possible only in a spinning universe. You have merely said that time travel is possible in a spinning universe. If I say "Men have hair" and "George is bald" it does not follow that George is not a man.

Harte
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

I don't see why the spin effect cannot be in the same dimension? Einstein was troubled by what his theory allowed: the possibility of "whirlpools and eddies" in the "river of time", where it would bend back on itself. A whirlpool would not define the center of the universe, only the center of a localized effect of space-time. It has made me wonder if time travel could be localized within these whirlpool/eddy zones which correlate to solar systems and galaxies?

You are right, I have not presented any arguement supporting the theory of time travel. I was only pointing out that quantam physics has shown that time travel is theoretically possible. That much is an established fact. Doing it is another matter.
I don't even know why Godel bothered with his theory when he knew the universe did not spin anyway, which would make time travel impossible. So if it does occur, something would negate the effect of a non-spinning universe. It would have to be a huge force/energy that permeates the universe. "Dark matter" came to mind.
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

Hmmmm, By definition the Universe is: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

However, since we can't see the edges and the only center of the universe I know of is "Me", I can't tell if we are spinning or not. I know sometimes feel like the universe is spinning.

Perhaps we spin so fast it feels like we are standing still. :)


Bubbu

________________________________________
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

Bubbu, how about this, All the Dark Matter is spinning, each Galaxy going along it's merry way is spinning. Physicists know there is Dark Matter but just don't have the equipment yet to measure that which is just a hair span out side of the 4 dimensions, yet some math points to it's existence.

On a Quantum level, that which takes place a foot away from us affects the Universe all the way to it's edges.

Each and every atom in our body is spinning. Hmmm maybe that's what keeps us awake and sane amidst all this helterskelter hurry to nowhere and the bubbles in our brew to rise instead of sink.
 
Re: If the Universe Spun

This is just a theory, yes ?

Just wondering what their point of reference is that the Universe might spin against, soz if that's been asked, just doing a type-by...
 

Top