Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

?
I see now why it is impossible to debunk this statement. Interpretation. Not because of facts, but beliefs and opinion. The only way to totally discredit this is if Iraq never existed. ?It's existance seems to be the only definite fact in the question.
?
.[/b]

Yeah if you interpret that the US did go to war with Iraq over a load of BS about WMD's ( just like JT said) I could see how it'd be a real tough nut to crack..

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

Big Computers?[/b]

LOL!! Maybe it's a Black Ops project see, and they all have souped up Commodores 64's linked up in SERIES. Just think of the # crunching potential. Why, with THAT kind of processing power one could understand why the gunk behind some people's ears smells like cheese.

I think it's safe to say the computers used would have to be of the large variety.

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Passive_Extremist\")</div>

Yeah if you interpret that the US did go to war with Iraq over a load of BS about WMD's ( just like JT said) I could see how it'd be a real tough nut to crack..[/b]

Everyone knows the real reason why we were there. WMDs were a political scapegoat, they never had em. They can track Mad Cow Disease in 3 out of 300,000 cows but can't get reliable information on Nuclear Development? Have you noticed the google maps? I believe there are posts here, I can see my car in the parking lot. JT thought they had nukes, otherwise the context of his question does not make sense. I will not budge on that. One thing we do agree on is he was very specific in what he said, his message was to think for yourself, but it rings different for me. I am growing tired of this. I find your lack of faith disturbing. In 2036 when people remember back will they remember the WMD search or the 3000 lives lost in the WTC and the war on terrorism? I doubt many people will, except for the ones that are relying on a prediction still.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

LOL!! Maybe it's a Black Ops project see, and they all have souped up Commodores 64's linked up in SERIES. Just think of the # crunching potential. Why, with THAT kind of processing power one could understand why the gunk behind some people's ears smells like cheese.

I think it's safe to say the computers used would have to be of the large variety.[/b]

I knew it.

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Well, I will point out that I am not debating "for" or "against" Titor. That little so-called "black hole" does have the mass (through gravity) of a small mountain. Afterall, gravity is formidable with getting out into Space. We have to get out of the pull of the Earth first, and that takes a lot of energy. Other people have pointed out that it may not take any more energy to move through Time, although the way that one moves through Time is thought now perhaps of the same way that moving through Space is thought of. In fact, I do have a book right here "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe" that does start off with time travel sci-fi stories, then says that time travel has to be self-consistent, and in one part, ends up, saying that 'mini black holes' would be like going over a 'speed bump' and you end up in a parallel universe. It is written in the consistent type story of sci-fi time travel stories of today. The book is by a Princeton physicist -- J. Richard Gott.
Either he is trying to 'fuel' the discussion, and ends up sounding like Titor in a sense, a year later (afterall the book had to be written, and the book did come out in 2001, but in paperback in 2002, but Titor is not the only one writing this way, about time travel.

Here is from the book:
Time travel to the past would appear difficult at best, so don't call your travel agent just yet. (I may add or delete a word or change a word, just to keep the copyright safe.) Extreme conditions would be required to even attempt such a project. (Gees, as physicists we don't really know, but debating amonst ourselves and having these conversations leads to this conclusion)...............But physicists spend their energy exploring the possibilities of time travel in principle for a very good reason: as I've commmented earlier, we are interested in testing the boundaries of the laws of physics under extreme conditions (Oh, that is why time travel is thought about -- I thought it was thought about, because actually instead of thinking it may not be possible, they are actually thinking that looking at extreme physics may bring about some light on the subject -- gees!). As physicists often remark -- especially when they lack money for building a new particle accelerator -- in its early moments the universe itself was a particle accelerator. If we want to search out places where extreme conditions prevail, we can look to the interiors of black holes -- or to the beginning of the universe.................A similiar logic applies to time machines. If we wish to test whether the laws of physics allow time travel to the past, we might further explore extreme conditions. One place to look for naturally occurring time machines may be in the interiors of black holes.

Well, gees whiz, golly whiz bang, chitty chitty bang bang!

Now for the good part of the book, that came out a little later than Titor (by a few months):

Any photons falling into the black hole from our universe would become very blueshifted and energetic, however. You would encounter these photons, which could kill you, as you headed in to jump through the ring singularity. Theoretically, photons entering the black hole in the infinite far future could become infinitely blueshifted and create their own singularity, blocking your way to the time-travel region. Yet work by physicists Amos Ori of Caltech and Lior Burko of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology shows that passing through this singularity to the region of time travel just may be possible after all, because the singularity formed by the incoming photons would be weak. First, we expect all infinities in the curvature to be "smeared out" bu quantum effects, so that the curvature would just rise to a very high but finite value.(We refer to this as "near-infinite.") Second, the buildup of curvature occurs so quickly that the associated tidal foreces might not tear you apart; they simply wouldn't have time to move your heard and feet much while you passed through. This would be akin to going over a speed bump very fast in your car: you would get a big jolt, but you could survive. To know the exact details of the process, we need a theory of quantum gravity, which we have not yet discovered. As Kip Thorne says in Black Holes and Time Warps, an astronaut "will survive, almost unscathed, right up to the edge of the probabilistic quantum gravity singularity. Only at the singularity's edge, just as he comes face-to-face with the laws of quantum gravity, will the astronaut be killed -- and we can not even be absoulutely sure he gets killed then, since we do not really understand at all well the laws of quantum gravity and their consequences. .........................
It was generally thought that such a singularity could, in principle, spew out all kinds of elementary particles that could kill you, but the argument has a loophole: there is a singularity we already see when looking out into the past that doesn't kill us ---- the big bang singularity at the beginning of the universe. Looking at a singularity isn't necessarily fatal.
Intriguing.


Well, that is all interesting as that chapter in the book talks about all that stuff of sci-fi -- wormholes, singularities, and time travel theories.

This does not make Titor real, at least, not yet, not real, not yet, yet!

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Another thing about JT that bothers me is I can't tell what he really posted or not. What are the original pictures or not. There are links in the supposedly original that are dead and there is no explanation. With Pamela on here we could have the actual ones couldn't we? Some that I looked at had been edited which makes me already wonder. It would be awesome if she could post all the original stuff in like a fake thread for reference. That way there isn't nearly as much confusion on my part. I only became aware of this a year or so ago and figure the time elapsed has been plenty to taint the original. Of course if she doesn't mind, I think it would be great.

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

Everyone knows the real reason why we were there. WMDs were a political scapegoat, they never had em. They can track Mad Cow Disease in 3 out of 300,000 cows but can't get reliable information on Nuclear Development? Have you noticed the google maps? I believe there are posts here, I can see my car in the parking lot. JT thought they had nukes, otherwise the context of his question does not make sense. I will not budge on that. One thing we do agree on is he was very specific in what he said, his message was to think for yourself, but it rings different for me. I am growing tired of this. I find your lack of faith disturbing. In 2036 when people remember back will they remember the WMD search or the 3000 lives lost in the WTC and the war on terrorism? I doubt many people will, except for the ones that are relying on a prediction still.



I knew it.[/b]

Ok, whatever man, this is pointless. How anyone could write off JT saying there was a coming war in iraq over a lie about WMDs way before 9/11 is a coincidence is beyond me, but think what you want. Only time will truly tell if JT's other predictions come true. Back to your funny elvis theories for now..

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

You know I was thinking if you want you can say that JT thought there were nukes because in his timeline there were, then everyones theory is right.

 

[Harte]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

...Too many people here glean their ideas and confirmations from internet news stories that do not meet enough of the rigorous standards of real journalism. Sensational headline grabbing tabloidism that any self-respecting, well-trained journalist would sneer at as irresponsible...

...Too often, any talk about not believing what we read is geared towards the notion that there's some sinister conspiracy designed to cover up governments wrong-doing. I'm all in favour of a healthy skepticism of the press - but why, oh why does it not work the other way as well. When dealing with the doom and gloom merchants of internet tabloidism?

...Where is the balance? ?
[/b]

Goodwin,
I couldn't care less about Titor. I am certain he was no time traveller, but not because of any of the predictions he made.

Anyway, I just had to comment on the above words gleaned from your post. I am in full and complete agreement with you on this and these words need to be posted and reposted until everyone sees them on the inside of their eyelids. The number of bogus "news sources" out there far outnumber the legitimate ones.

Well put and glad to see a fellow pragmatist on the board.

Harte

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Elvis wasn't my theory, but it was funny. He said nukes, not WMDs, he didn't mention biological weapons because they would'nt have worked with the nuclear holocaust theory. Take a step away from your beliefs for a second, and read the question as if anyone asked it in a normal conversation. Anyone who knows how to formulate a proper question can see it. Just because it isn't a prediction doesn't make the whole thing not true.

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

I heard JT misspelled his name one time, hah how dumb does this Fony Bologny think we are? The fool!