🛡️ Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Debate!

" US Capital will be moved to Omaha, Nebraska" - John Titor



US still pursuing nuclear options 60 years after first bomb
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Sixty years after the first atomic bomb was tested in the New Mexico desert, the United States still has some 2,000 nuclear weapons on hair trigger alert and is considering new weapons such as earth-penetrating bunker busters.

But even as it moves to retire much of its Cold War arsenal, it has pressed a reluctant Congress for funds for nuclear bunker-buster studies, refurbished nuclear testing facilities, and a facility to build the plutonium triggers for new weapons.

The US Strategic Command in Omaha, Nebraska, is reported to be developing "global strike" options, including a nuclear option, against potential adversaries with nuclear weapons such as Iran and North Korea.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a.../afp/20050714/p...

 

[Apogee]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Passive_Extremist\")</div>

Well, I guess since you illustrated the seriousness of it starlord, I would've went on a kill happy rampage destroying every living thing in between me and that crazy gun guy, if it moved I'd blast it, and I'd have known I'd face no reprecussions because people like you would be willing to let it slide, because you understand that public safety is more important than some hostages life and because we cops deal with bad guys all the time, we're entitled to make mistakes.[/b]

Alas, ( and I may be mistaken here) I'd say the ingenious, ground-breaking and thoughtful alternative course of action you offer is perhaps a tad worse than the one taken by the real cops in that dangerous and difficult situation. No doubt it must have passed through their minds though, in the few moments they had in between trying not to have a whizzing bullet do so.

Its probably best we keep hotheads like you out of the law enforcement business, Passive.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Alas, ( and I may be mistaken here) I'd say the ingenious, ground-breaking and thoughtful alternative course of action you offer is perhaps a tad worse than the one taken by the real cops in that dangerous and difficult situation. No doubt it must have passed through their minds though, in the few moments they had in between trying not to have a whizzing bullet do so.

Its probably best we keep hotheads like you out of the law enforcement business, Passive.[/b]

Apogee,
I agree with you 100% there. Interesting how Passive's post morphed into a nuclear info spot isn't it? He probably wished that your quote of his would have changed also.

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Well, in all truthfulness I might use a slingshot or some water balloons, though I'd probably offer therapy. I'm not big on violence. What would you two charles bronson's do differently?

 

[Apogee]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Passive_Extremist\")</div>

Well, in all truthfulness I might use a slingshot or some water balloons, though I'd probably offer therapy. I'm not big on violence. What would you two charles bronson's do differently?[/b]

The thing is...at the end of the day, I'm not big on violence either. (And judging from his posts, neither is Starlord).

Nobody, I reckon, really disagrees with your bottom line, Passive. At least, not on your fundamental contention that the kid's life should not have been forfeit.

Obviously, that situation was a tragedy. I doubt very much though that it was appreciably much less of a tragedy for the police officer who took the shot than it was for the mother. I imagine, whether or not he's identified, that cop - or indeed all of them - will go to their graves with this upon them.

I disagree much more with your lack of appreciation for those that genuinely do strive to 'protect and serve' than I do with your general argument.

At the end of the day, its a fact that those that are most critical of the police forces of the free world ( no doubt you'll have something to say about my phraseology - but nothing that your freedom of speech won't stop ) are still amongst the first to call them when their time of need comes.

And in case you ask me again what my "agenda" is... I repeat that I do not have one other than the fact that I disagree with the collective future this 'John Titor' hoaxer paints for us and take issue with those who try to shoe-horn every news event into his so-called "predictions".

My first job was writing horoscopes for a daily newspaper. I can't tell you the amount of letters I used to get about how 'accurate' my 'stars' were. Mainly from old ladies who were easily startled.

Peace.



Uh oh.

Hang on.

This just in:

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California, has become embroiled in a shady deal that may or may not vindicate something that John Titor once said. Apparently the former time-travelling cyborg is giving the thumbs-up to nutritional supplements as a private citizen whilst talking them down in his capacity as a political leader.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050714/D.../D8BBFCFO0.html


What more proof do people need that time travellers from the future are here amongst us and are pointing out a political and moral decline that will lead us into a Nuclear conflict?

 

[Mudpuppy]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Uh oh.

Hang on.

This just in:

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California, has become embroiled in a shady deal that may or may not vindicate something that John Titor once said. Apparently the former time-travelling cyborg is giving the thumbs-up to nutritional supplements as a private citizen whilst talking them down in his capacity as a political leader.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050714/D.../D8BBFCFO0.html


What more proof do people need that time travellers from the future are here amongst us and are pointing out a political and moral decline that will lead us into a Nuclear conflict?[/b]

You have a great sense of humor Apogee :lol:

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Obviously, that situation was a tragedy. I doubt very much though that it was appreciably much less of a tragedy for the police officer who took the shot than it was for the mother. I imagine, whether or not he's identified, that cop - or indeed all of them - will go to their graves with this upon them.[/b]

It was only a tragedy because the police escalated it into one. They could've shot the guys leg out or let him run out of bullets, a baby is only so big and I can't see someone reloading a gun while holding a baby. So it was avoidable. It didn't require 90 shots.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

I disagree much more with your lack of appreciation for those that genuinely do strive to 'protect and serve' than I do with your general argument.[/b]

Sorry Apogee, I don't sympathize with them for doing their jobs and I don't ask them for sympathy when I do mine. Everyone makes a choice and has a sad story. I don't think they're any better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

And in case you ask me again what my \"agenda\" is... I repeat that I do not have one other than the fact that I disagree with the collective future this 'John Titor' hoaxer paints for us and take issue with those who try to shoe-horn every news event into his so-called \"predictions\".[/b]

So you can debunk JT?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

My first job was writing horoscopes for a daily newspaper. I can't tell you the amount of letters I used to get about how 'accurate' my 'stars' were. Mainly from old ladies who were easily startled.[/b]

JT predicted mad cow, CERN, 100,000 dead, destabilization of the west, the iraq war being based around a lie over WMDs, no more olympics etc. Can you top that?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Uh oh.
?
Hang on.
?
This just in:
?
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California, has become embroiled in a shady deal that may or may not vindicate something that John Titor once said. Apparently the former time-travelling cyborg is giving the thumbs-up to nutritional supplements as a private citizen whilst talking them down in his capacity as a political leader.
?
?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050714/D.../D8BBFCFO0.html
?
?
What more proof do people need that time travellers from the future are here amongst us and are pointing out a political and moral decline that will lead us into a Nuclear conflict?[/b]

I don't really see how making jokes lends credibility to your skepticism, or takes away from the JT story, but whatever makes you feel better Apogee.

 

[Apogee]

Re: John Titor Debate!

JT predicted mad cow, CERN, 100,000 dead, destabilization of the west, the iraq war being based around a lie over WMDs, no more olympics etc. Can you top that?


Let's get this straight so there's no doubt about where we stand with 'Titor's' 'predictions'....

He claimed absolutely nothing whatsoever that was ( as you would expect of a time traveller and not one of the many millions of charlatans that have appeared through the ages )...completely irrefutable.

Mad Cow was already a concern in the news. Fact. He 'predicted' a "breakthrough" at CERN - despite Titor apologists claiming so, this has NOT happened. Fact. The final death toll for the Tsunami was closer to 220, 000. Fact. Titor emphatically did NOT mention WMD's and his comments on Iraq and the nuclear question, as has been discussed at length, he left entirely open to the reader as to which direction he was pointing towards. Fact. The destabilisation of 'Europe' ( If we're going to discuss his claims let's be accurate ) hasn't happened in his time frame cos I live here, Mate, and as far as I can see -terrorist bombings don't even come into it -its business as usual. Fact. The Olympics, as far as I know (despite the best efforts of many Titorites on other boards to claim otherwise) are very much still on. Fact.

And half way through 2005, there's no real sign of this civil war ( there's an oxy-moron if ever there was one). Unless you're planning on starting one.

So you see, there is not a single one of the (remaining) claims by the hoaxer that is left standing unchallenged. It seems to me, that if I were a time traveller from years in the future I would have it within my power to assert at least ONE completely unassailable claim about future events.

Just one.

One.

You know...

just one.

Titor has completely failed to provide even that. I regard those that defend him in the same manner as those who are taken in by the cold-reading 'psychics' who claim knowledge of a dearly departed relative...

"I see a 'J'...yes...there's a Johnny here...no...there's a Jeremy here who wants to contact you...no...its a Jason...he's got something important to tell you...is it Jonah?....no...a James...that's it...a Julian...no....its just as you said....a John! That's right....a John with a message for you...!"

Its not a question of sitting on the fence. Those that defend this stuff most fervently...WANT to believe it. They see nothing but the bad in the cops and the government and people in general and see some awful conflict brewing for that reason. Maybe they should stop being so critical of the people and the world around them and take a look at themselves instead.

If those who hold Titor's so-called 'predictions' as iron-clad fact are so right then just about everyone should be on the verge of accepting them...and yet this is not the case...how do they account for the fact that its so mind-bogglingly easy to pick holes in them?

And old Mrs Doak, the palm reader my Mum used to frequent didn't have to 'prove' that she talked to the spirits either. But that didn't mean she was ever short of willing and easily-beguiled customers.

 

[jfr420]

Re: John Titor Is A Hoax Exclusive Report

Great topic!
Something interesting of note. We have a $126 billion trade def. with China, our major companies are all laying off American workers and sending their work overseas to China (cheap labor- slaves), just about everything made is connected to China as well. Consider that China is now bidding on our major Western gas/oil companies (Unical) and they are going out of their way to say that these purchases are just "normal". Add a standing Army of 200 million plus over 350 million men who are of military age(US population is 300 million) and "expansion" is a serious serious security threat. Oh, I can not forget eminent domain, which would be easily enforced by a foreign nation who needs expansion and who we are in great debt to; especially if they try to invade and take us over. Plus with all the rioting that may happen here and our military spread too thin, it would be a lot easier for a foreign nation to employ marshall law as a "friend" and then never leaving. Take into consideration the upcoming oil crisis as well. When that happens, all R. China has to do is outbid us during the upcoming crisis and out economy will be flattened. What an amazing time to be alive. We are living in amazing times.
Remember 30 years from now we will know how and why this has all happened as we are not the judges of others because we can not possible understand. Nonetheless a great great topic and really weird to say the least. And this is just China!!!!!
Solution 1: God- our great Creator always comes through and the power of mass conscienceness. We the people need to get back to God.
Solution 2: By making marijuana legal, we would have a $600 billion/year increase here to our economy which equals erasing our trade deficit with China in 90 DAYS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Roth Joint\")</div>

Keep your eyes on Europe's political and economical situation, keep your eyes on Israel and it's Arab neighbours and keep your eyes on China.

Because Titor's world is developing itself...

John Titor:

** ....\"political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.\"
<span style='font-family:Arial'>** \\"It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 2005.\\"</span>
** \"Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency.\"
** \"The West will become very unstable which gives China the confidence to \"expand\".\"
** <span style='font-family:Arial'>\\"</span><span style='font-family:Arial'>Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack.\\"</span>
** <span style='font-family:Arial'>\\"</span><span style='font-family:Arial'>Western instability during the conflict leads to the attack in 2015\\"</span>
<span style='font-family:Arial'>** \\"The war is a result of faulty politics and desperation from Western leadership during the US civil war. Yes, I suppose you could stop it.\\"</span>


http://www.freep.com/news/nw/europe28e_20050528.htm

Voters in 2 nations may reject EU constitution
May 28, 2005

FREE PRESS NEWS SERVICES

The French referendum Sunday and another one three days later in the Netherlands have unexpectedly turned into a crisis for the architects of the European Union. Voters in both countries appear ready to reject the 448-article draft that is supposed to serve as a constitution for the EU's 25 member nations.

Thus far, 10 member nations have approved the constitution, but only Spain did so by referendum. The others ratified it in their national legislatures. The draft must be accepted by every member nation before it becomes law.

Opinion polls over the past month have consistently shown the \"no\" camp with a steady lead in the range of 51 percent to 54 percent. The only hope for constitution supporters is that a quarter of voters say they are undecided.

The opposition comes in all political stripes, such as:

? Dissident socialists who fear the new constitution will end France's welfare state.
? Catholic nationalists angry that the document makes no mention of God.
? Trade unions that fear it will export jobs to eastern Europe.
? Radicals who argue that the document is a plot for the corporate takeover of Europe.

The \"yes\" camp says such a union will offer strong economic competition to China, India and the United States.

At stake: The treaty would take effect Nov. 1, 2006, if ratified by referendum or parliamentary vote in all 25 EU nations.

The charter: The constitution guarantees freedom of speech and religion, shelter, education, collective labor bargaining and fair working conditions. It enshrines the EU flag -- a circle of 12 golden stars on a blue background -- designates Beethoven's \"Ode to Joy\" as the EU anthem, and makes the euro the official currency. The constitution provides for an EU president to be chosen by EU leaders for a maximum 5-year term.

If France rejects it: The treaty that led to the draft constitution says EU leaders are to discuss what to do if, by October 2006, four-fifths of member nations have ratified it, but one or more others have \"encountered difficulties\" getting it accepted. Countries may be asked to vote again.[/b]

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

He claimed absolutely nothing whatsoever that was ( as you would expect of a time traveller and not one of the many millions of charlatans that have appeared through the ages )...completely irrefutable. [/b]

Well as long as people can claim that he possibly researched everything he predicted, you'll have ammunition for your biased weapons. There's no possible way to prove anything to a mind that doesn't want to believe.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Mad Cow was already a concern in the news. Fact. He 'predicted' a \"breakthrough\" at CERN - despite Titor apologists claiming so, this has NOT happened. Fact. [/b]

I guess you didn't get the memo, CERN announced a few months back they were experimenting with black holes, bound to produce results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

The final death toll for the Tsunami was closer to ? ? 220, 000. Fact. [/b]

They were constantly changing the death toll when I followed it, I don't know anyone who knows the exact amount. So I could see how someone might just use 100,000 as a general amount. But continue your fury over minor details and ignore the chances of someone mentioning something like that all you want.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Titor emphatically did NOT mention WMD's and his comments on Iraq and the nuclear question, as has been discussed at length, he left entirely open to the reader as to which direction he was pointing towards. Fact.[/b]

Sorry Again, but he clearly mentioned iraq, war and nukes bs in one sentence, if it hadn't happened that way it would've made no sense at all, so it wasn't "up to the reader" to decide.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

The destabilisation of 'Europe' ( If we're going to discuss his claims let's be accurate ) hasn't happened in his time frame cos I live here, Mate, and as far as I can see -terrorist bombings don't even come into it -its business as usual. Fact.[/b]

Do you know what your country feels like destabilized?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

The Olympics, as far as I know (despite the best efforts of many Titorites on other boards to claim otherwise) are very much still on. Fact. [/b]

Well, they seem to be on shaky ground to me. That's some coincidence 6 months before the next olympics if you ask me.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

And half way through 2005, there's no real sign of this civil war ( there's an oxy-moron if ever there was one). Unless you're planning on starting one.[/b]

How many civil wars have you been apart of? Aren't you in england anyway?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

So you see, there is not a single one of the (remaining) claims by the hoaxer that is left standing unchallenged. It seems to me, that if I were a time traveller from years in the future I would have it within my power to assert at least ONE completely unassailable claim about future events. ?

?
Just one.
?
One.
?
You know...
?
just one.

?
Titor has completely failed to provide even that. I regard those that defend him in the same manner as those who are taken in by the cold-reading 'psychics' who claim knowledge of a dearly departed relative...[/b]

Why ? It wouldn't matter to titor debunkers anyway, He'd could've said "there will be a tsunami in sumatra in 2004 " and debunkers would've been saying he just studied seismic activity and made a well informed guess. There's no win with some people, the bias is blinding you.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

Its not a question of sitting on the fence. Those that defend this stuff most fervently...WANT to believe it. They see nothing but the bad in the cops and the government and people in general and see some awful conflict brewing for that reason. Maybe they should stop being so critical of the people and the world around them and take a look at themselves instead. [/b]

..and those who don't want to believe WILL FIND A WAY not to believe.

I think instead of looking at themelves so much and admiring their own intelligence, maybe the debunkers should put down their dvd players and look at the world around them instead.

It's an ugly place, regardless of what they think when you sit in front of their tv all day.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

If those who hold Titor's so-called 'predictions' as iron-clad fact are so right then just about everyone should be on the verge of accepting them...and yet this is not the case...how do they account for the fact that its so mind-bogglingly easy to pick holes in them?[/b]

I guess someone with a massive intelligence ( and ego) like a JT Debunker, wouldn't fail to realize how mind boggling easy it would be to pick apart anything, no matter how detailed?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

And old Mrs Doak, the palm reader my Mum used to frequent didn't have to 'prove' that she talked to the spirits either. But that didn't mean she was ever short of willing and easily-beguiled customers.[/b]

So when do I get to see you match JT? It should be no sweat right?