John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

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Deebokonon

New Member
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3
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

The John Titor material came into my view last April. My initial interest came from my work with a book in process, The Time Derivative. I will not publish that one.

I found John Titor?s answers as synchronistic with my ideas in a very indirect yet subtle way.

I cannot say whether john?s story is factual or fiction. I can say however, that his presentation of his claimed experience was consistent and conservatively simple. Also his philosophy on what he observed about our society, while supposedly present, reflected my own personal attitudes about the nature of our present opulent existence.

What I do wish to share in my future posts is how his account fits consistently within my own Time Derivative precepts.

In order to justify that statement and share my sense of wonder I will qualify my own views on time travel within my next two posts.

Deebokonon
 

Snow

Member
Messages
469
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

I cannot say whether john?s story is factual or fiction. I can say however, that his presentation of his claimed experience was consistent and conservatively simple. Also his philosophy on what he observed about our society, while supposedly present, reflected my own personal attitudes about the nature of our present opulent existence.
Yes - mine too.

While I originally shrugged at JT back in 2001, when I rediscovered him in January, I felt something click. What he had said a few years ago, on reexamination, had more a ring of truth than I originally noticed in it. And like you, my personal attitudes were falling in line with his presentation. I guess I could say, that on my own, I kind of grew into his scenario and this year it struck a new chord in me. I have to say I way lean towards believing him, since these days everything I read in news and prophecy, I look for how it fits with the JT material. My gut says "pay attention!" and with the following that JT has gathered over these few years, I am not alone.

I think I can tell you are going to be more scientific in your approach to JT. That will be aprreciated by many here. I probably won't be able to follow it very well - but there are some really good minds in this community who will.

Good Morning and Welcome to the Forum!

I'm looking forward your posts.

From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .

Snow Fire Watches
 

Deebokonon

New Member
Messages
3
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

Yes

This will be a bit scientific but I think you can follow it. However, your comments have guided me to include a few more posts than I had originally planned. If they are not interesting and outright fun let me know and I will become more brief.

First, lets eliminate conceptual limitations for correctly understanding ?time Travel?.

The first limitation of ?time Travel? is time itself. Clock, day, month, year, and etc times are applied abstracts for what we call ?time?. Physical events are summarily bound within the physical constants in the processes of their occurrences. We measure these sequences of events with arbitrarily set increments.

Here is a neat experiment that will help you understand this aspect of time. Choose a series of events from your near past. Choose a trip, a party, a project, some events on which you can attach a beginning and an end. Keep in mind how much abstract time the original sequence of events consumed.

Use a stopwatch or sit before a clock with a sweep hand. Register a beginning time, close your eyes and re-live in your mind the sequence of events that you have chosen. Remember as many details of the events as you possibly can. At the end register the real time lapse.

Then start again and close your eyes while you pass through the experience remembering more detail. If you repeat this over and over remembering more and more detail you will find that the more detail that you remember the shorter the time lapse will be. When you become really good at remembering details in the events you will be surprised at how drastically real time slows down.

Try it!

Life is a dance we all do separately together in the great ballroom of intertwined time.

Deebokonon
 

Snow

Member
Messages
469
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

Ok Deebo - I am definately going to do this . . . I am just waiting for hubby to go out so I can "think". I may one problem though - when I close my eyes, I fall asleep! :lol:

I'll get back with as soon as I get the experiment accomplished.

SFW
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

On the other hand, let's say you take a bus each day to work and know the objective passage of time intimately. On the same trip, read a very good book and the subjective passage of time is 'magicly' much shorter. The actual passage of time is the same in each instance. The only thing that has changed is the point of your current attention.

The excersize of going over memories and the realization of subjective vs objective passage of time proves but one thing. Although the passage of time is the same in each instance if you were to be timed by an outside observer, the mental viewpoint proves that there is only one thing that exceeds the speed of light normally (without outside / ET influence) and that is the speed of thought.
 

Deebokonon

New Member
Messages
3
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

Well Snow Fire Watches,

How did time go? Did you come to the realizing that thought is out of time and indeed needs none?

The next limitation for understanding time travel is the belief that it is open ended no matter which direction or how far you decide to go. Just push the time set button and poof, there you are.

Each of us is a sub sequence of events within a master sequence of events. Also we are a blend between soul consciousness and temporal experience. However, our existent awareness is limited to that temporal part of the experience. It takes psychic travel to know the other part of it.

There are three methods for time translations. John Titor only had access to two of them. Each method opens a time barrier. I draw from my text to discuss them here.

There are three possibilities for creating passages in time where with we can translate our existence in a way that we can call time travel.

The first is very common. We can set within the circle of our existence and still journey out, through the avenues available to our consciousness, to any time or place. How well we can perceive in that wandering ranges between out of body experience with psychic views to flights of fancy and or dreams. Call it OBE, remote views, dreamscape or perhaps a transposition of awareness. Within these refinements we could go to any place or time but only in our mind.

However, the things that we may see may not jib with our natural experience. We would be like Nostradamus describing future visions in present motifs.

Second, had we the technical mastery we could create a chamber that would isolate us from real time and space and yet still facilitate our perceptions of real time and space. Outside of real time and space we could within resonance with event paths go to any point of past, present or future.

We could observe at those times but we could not take part in their making or transitions. We would be like spirit essence looking through the vial at real life. However, our separate place of perception would be facilitated by a machine rather than death. This technique is not and will not be available even in 2036.

On the other hand we could devise an electro-dynamic mechanism that could project our existence to any point in the flow of the events called us. This could be within the future flow of an ?us sequence of events? or a past flow of an ?us sequence of events.?

We could not journey in this state of awareness beyond the flow of events that represents our real space existence. The machine cannot take us either to a point before our now line of existence or in a future beyond our now line of existence.

This is to say that direct time travel, or physical event translation can only occur within the probable span of our physical existence within this 3-space/time sequence.

Hence in event translation we are limited to the consequence of our real time events for the real space sequence we call life.

The mechanism would have to slightly alter the elements of our existence so many discrepancies from our earlier or future flows. This altercation would eliminate the possibility that our here and now events would interfere with our there and then events.

We could exist there standing in a slightly altered line of existence fully aware of our previously lived self. However, in that existence we must be careful not to provide a direct conscious awareness of our connections to our earlier self in that specific flow of our events.

To make our previous self aware of our translated self would reflect through our flow of consciousness within very serious results.

This last mode of event translations is the one that John Titor would have had to use were his claims proved actual.

I will compare these ideas with respects to the claimed time travel experience of John Titor. I will do this in several posts. If there are questions of clarity for any part I will take that in task before going further.

Peculiar travel suggestions are always dancing lessons from God. We should accept them even if we think that we will get our feet stepped on or our shins kicked.

Deebokonon :love:
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

Originally posted by StarLord@Aug 13 2004, 06:49 PM
On the other hand, let's say you take a bus each day to work and know the objective passage of time intimately. On the same trip, read a very good book and the subjective passage of time is 'magicly' much shorter. The actual passage of time is the same in each instance. The only thing that has changed is the point of your current attention.

The excersize of going over memories and the realization of subjective vs objective passage of time proves but one thing. Although the passage of time is the same in each instance if you were to be timed by an outside observer, the mental viewpoint proves that there is only one thing that exceeds the speed of light normally (without outside / ET influence) and that is the speed of thought.

I'm with StarLord on this. Besides which: what does this really have to do with Titor? Titor might be an example of almost anything in the realms of religion, science, mysticism, history, anthropology, physics, etc., etc. To simply announce that he is connected to your topic doesn't make the thread here appropriate. I would suggest moving the discussion to either the philosophy threads or general theories.
 

Snow

Member
Messages
469
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon+Aug 13 2004, 02:25 PM--><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-StarLord@Aug 13 2004, 06:49 PM
On the other hand,? let's say you take a bus each day to work and know the objective passage of time intimately.? On the same trip,? read a very good book and the subjective passage of time is 'magicly' much shorter. The actual passage of time is the same in each instance.? The only thing that has changed is the point of your current attention.

The excersize of going over memories and the realization of subjective vs objective passage of time proves but one thing.? Although the passage of time is the same in each instance if you were to be timed by an outside observer,? the mental viewpoint proves that there is only one thing that exceeds the speed of light normally (without outside / ET influence) and that is the speed of thought.

I'm with StarLord on this. Besides which: what does this really have to do with Titor? Titor might be an example of almost anything in the realms of religion, science, mysticism, history, anthropology, physics, etc., etc. To simply announce that he is connected to your topic doesn't make the thread here appropriate. I would suggest moving the discussion to either the philosophy threads or general theories.
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First . . .

If someone thinks this needs to be moved, by all means, go right ahead. WGAFF? Sheesh . . .

Sorry Deebo ? just wanted to get that out of the way.

Well Snow Fire Watches,

How did time go? Did you come to the realizing that thought is out of time and indeed needs none?

Yes . . . the second remembering took me longer than the first but after that each more detailed remembering took less time than the previous remembering.

And Starlord?s point isn?t lost on me:

The excersize of going over memories and the realization of subjective vs objective passage of time proves but one thing. Although the passage of time is the same in each instance if you were to be timed by an outside observer, the mental viewpoint proves that there is only one thing that exceeds the speed of light normally (without outside / ET influence) and that is the speed of thought.
The speed of some people's thoughts is much faster than others LOL - as I am sure I am getting ready to prove. :D'oh:

I tried to warn you that I don?t have a very scientific mind. I may turn out to be too dense for this kind of thing but I?m trying to follow you.

The next limitation for understanding time travel is the belief that it is open ended no matter which direction or how far you decide to go. Just push the time set button and poof, there you are.
You are saying that aint so?

Each of us is a sub sequence of events within a master sequence of events. Also we are a blend between soul consciousness and temporal experience. However, our existent awareness is limited to that temporal part of the experience. It takes psychic travel to know the other part of it.
Oops . . . I?m lost already . . . I wish Phoenix was back ? he would be loving this and he would explain it to me so I wouldn?t look dim in public!

There are three methods for time translations. John Titor only had access to two of them. Each method opens a time barrier. I draw from my text to discuss them here.

There are three possibilities for creating passages in time where with we can translate our existence in a way that we can call time travel.

The first is very common. We can set within the circle of our existence and still journey out, through the avenues available to our consciousness, to any time or place. How well we can perceive in that wandering ranges between out of body experience with psychic views to flights of fancy and or dreams. Call it OBE, remote views, dreamscape or perhaps a transposition of awareness. Within these refinements we could go to any place or time but only in our mind.
In this I have some experience so at least it isn?t like a foreign language.

Second, had we the technical mastery we could create a chamber that would isolate us from real time and space and yet still facilitate our perceptions of real time and space. Outside of real time and space we could within resonance with event paths go to any point of past, present or future.

We could observe at those times but we could not take part in their making or transitions. We would be like spirit essence looking through the vial at real life. However, our separate place of perception would be facilitated by a machine rather than death. This technique is not and will not be available even in 2036.
Okay, I think I'm with ya. But by what authority are you saying that it will not be available by 2036? Do you have some inside knowledge?

On the other hand we could devise an electro-dynamic mechanism that could project our existence to any point in the flow of the events called us. This could be within the future flow of an ?us sequence of events? or a past flow of an ?us sequence of events.?

We could not journey in this state of awareness beyond the flow of events that represents our real space existence. The machine cannot take us either to a point before our now line of existence or in a future beyond our now line of existence.

This is to say that direct time travel, or physical event translation can only occur within the probable span of our physical existence within this 3-space/time sequence.

Hence in event translation we are limited to the consequence of our real time events for the real space sequence we call life.
Uh oh deebo ? I?m lost again. Are you saying that I could not travel back any further than the year I was born or forward any further than I was going to live? This would not fit with what John claimed to do at all ? so I?m thinking I?m lost again.

The mechanism would have to slightly alter the elements of our existence so many discrepancies from our earlier or future flows. This altercation would eliminate the possibility that our here and now events would interfere with our there and then events.

We could exist there standing in a slightly altered line of existence fully aware of our previously lived self. However, in that existence we must be careful not to provide a direct conscious awareness of our connections to our earlier self in that specific flow of our events.

To make our previous self aware of our translated self would reflect through our flow of consciousness within very serious results.

This last mode of event translations is the one that John Titor would have had to use were his claims proved actual.
Maybe this is the place where I should ask you how you feel about multiple worldline theories? John was not worried about flow-through consequences as he was not in ?his? world line.

I will compare these ideas with respects to the claimed time travel experience of John Titor. I will do this in several posts. If there are questions of clarity for any part I will take that in task before going further.
I am sure by now you would rather be talking to Hack?s duck than to me! Looking forward to your next post.

Peculiar travel suggestions are always dancing lessons from God. We should accept them even if we think that we will get our feet stepped on or our shins kicked.
Dancing lessons from God I don?t get, but I have been on this forum long enough to know to wear shin guards!

From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .

Snow Fire Watches
 

Phoenix

Active Member
Messages
622
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

I think you asked all of the relevant questions Snow.

And this post has been moved to theories as per Paul's recommendation.
 

iooqxpooi

Member
Messages
173
John Titor's claims and The Time Derivative

I truly agree with starlord, and sorry SFW, I couldn't read your post due to myself rushing through the internet. :p
 

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