something that i am worried

[denbo88]

Re: something that i am worried

A + O, Did you know that Albert Einstein was a terrible student when he was your age? A lot of kids are good at memorizing information but can't come up with an original thought - they only know what people give them to read.

Also remember that sometimes students get crummy teachers who are not good at teaching. When I was in school, I had an uncle who taught me math at his house after school for a while when I had a problem. He made it sound so easy. Thats when I knew it wasn't ME, it was the TEACHER!

 

[Alpha and 0mega]

Re: something that i am worried

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"denbo88\")</div>

A + O, Did you know that Albert Einstein was a terrible student when he was your age? A lot of kids are good at memorizing information but can't come up with an original thought - they only know what people give them to read.

Also remember that sometimes students get crummy teachers who are not good at teaching. When I was in school, I had an uncle who taught me math at his house after school for a while when I had a problem. He made it sound so easy. Thats when I knew it wasn't ME, it was the TEACHER![/b]

Thats rite.These people only know how to memorise,they doesn't know the logic and concept behind what they r studying cos nowadays textbook r written too clearly that students can jus simply memorise it and thus they got goood results for test,they r so arrogant and think they r gonna be the next albert eintein and their behaviour really digust and annoyed me cos somehow i knew i was way smarter than them!!i....can prove it, jus read some of the thread i posted.

 

[darkbreed]

Re: something that i am worried

Jimer014: Coming in here, refering to us as idiots on your first post, is reavealing more about yourself than us really. And, telling people they are idiots because they don't happen to know what could be a possible conspiracy isn't the right way to go. If it was so obvious people who didnt see this were mere idiots then the point of the coverup would allready be lost, why should they make it obvious? After all such conspicary theories, if true at all, got a reason to be hidden as good they could do it without letting it be exposed to the public too easily. Or else they wouldn't succeed with such things in the first place.

Alpha and Omega: Dont worry mate, you certainly seem to be quite a smart kid to me. I think you'll be all fine, don't worry about whatever your fellow students may or may not do, and what they succeed in or not. Being still as young you are, you shouldn't think much of this, you should rather focus on what is fun in life, and what you like to do, that matters more than some grades in school really.

 

[st0len]

Re: something that i am worried

Sorry didnt read any posts accept the first one so here it goes:

I belive memorization is the most important factor in school and learning.

The students you disscuss just memorize a certain part of the book, probaly mostly equations and not the logic that goes behind it.

The purpose of memorization is to retain information and able to apply it to later in your life. Im a computer programmer and I have to remember TONS of code syntax. BUT the thing is I havnt learned all the syntax off by heart. I just no how to use it and where/how to look it up.

Ill give you a tip for memorizing almost anything and retreiving that information when ever you desire. BTW I learning this in my psychology class.

First off you MUST take good notes. Write down anything the teacher says and what ever the text book says that you think is important. What I do then is take those notes home and make notes off of them. IE: 4 pages of notes becomes 1.
When I study I change the context of the logic and content to questions that may be asked. I find that really helps because if you study questions and anwsers you then can relate to the test you will be taking. After all these steps that WILL seem tedious you will almost guarentee to get a 90% or higher.

Trust me it works with effort. In highschool my average was aprox 70% and with this new technique my GPA in Sheridan College is 4 or 96%

 

[Heinrich Hundekok]

something that i am worried

Alpha and Omega, and all you others...

You are on to something very important here! Very very important! Never forget that. A&O, you are right. Please do believe me when I say that.

Many of you fine people weighing in here seem to try to solve the problem by giving advice on how to help A&O pass the tests and exams through memorization practise. But in my honest opinion - I think you all get things a bit turned upside down. The problem is not lack of memorization ability - THE PROBLEM IS THE TEST BASED SCOOL SYSTEM ITSELF!

Personally I believe that this whole test-business is the one huge problem with modern education. I am a scool-teacher. I know about modern education. But I am also a blacksmith with ten years of experience - taught up the old-fashioned apprenticeship way, and I teach up new blacksmiths at the viking centre where I work part time.

When I want to "test" an apprentice, I make him forge something out of iron or steel. Something tricky. If he can do it, he's passed and I start teaching him harder things. If he can't, well no big deal. Seeing him try and fail tells me exactly how I can help him get better. There's no such thing as cheating - its impossible! Either he can or he can't. You can't "memorize" your way out of such a test...

Somehow we need to apply this "apprenticeship" teaching and testing style to modern scools.

I think you all ought to know that the American test-based system - especially the one on the loose in Texas - among most Europeans is a clear example of how NOT to run scools.

Please weigh in!

H.H.

Grrrr.... what happened to the "edit post" button?

Ok, I'll try to explain a bit more in detail in this new post, then

Lets start with a simple question: How did people learn before scools existed?

Not just 1000 years ago but way, way earlier. Look at how animal children learn from their parents and from other adult individuals. The blackbird male is born with its ability to sing, but it will only become a good singer by listening to its rivals - the longer it lives, the better a singer. Thus blackbird females choose the better singing males because these males are the more successful survivors, which again will result in successful offspring.

Decades ago, somewhere in southern England a sparrow figured out how to hack through the alu cover of a milk-bottle. This discovery spread out among other sparrows, and whithin a short while sparrows across Britain did the same thing - as far as I know this "meme" has spread across the world by now.

Animals - and of course humans - have an ability to learn from each other, without which we probably wouldn't even exist. Throughout mans 1 million year history kids have learned from adults. This ability to accumilate knowledge, wisdom, craft and so on is the whole foundation of what we call culture or civilization. Whithout this ability, every new generation had to start from scratsh - like ants or bees.

The principle is simple: Imagine a group of people living in the early stone age, fishing, gathering food in the forests and hunting. The kids quickly figures out which adult (12-35 years, they did'nt get much older) is the more successful at , say, catching fish with a spear.
Of course they will watch him/her making spears and hunting, and then they'd try to do it the same way. This is how all craft is passed down through centuries and millennia. Noone would care to copy the less successful craftsman/hunter/painter/nuclear physicist.

VERY roughly put: If a man is good at something, other men would try to learn from him, and women would try to mate with him. Only this way all good things are passed on to the next generations - both genes and memes.

Let me use the blacksmithing business as an example again, since I'm the most familiar with this one...

The blacksmith has a shop in which he makes things for the customers. If the blacksmith is good, people return to him the next time they need something to be done, each time paying him for a well done job. The rumour spreads. Everyone can see with their own eyes that this person is good at what he's doing, and thus youngsters would prefer to become his apprentice instead of someone elses. They can see that he gets paid hard money for his job, they can see he's worth learning from.

This is how it has always worked. 1. You figure out who's good at problem solving. 2. you watch this person. 3. you try to understand and copy what you see.

This is how kids learn - a million years ago and today.

Now, lets try to apply this to modern scools...

Doesn't work well, does it? The kids can't watch the adult teacher solve problems. Thus they cant judge wether he/she is even worth paying attention to (remeber the fishing exaple?)

The teachers "problem solving" is to make the children themselves learn. It's not an exterior problem that the kids can watch the teacher solve, thereby judging the teachers ability to solve problems and eventually learning from him/her.

The teacher (remember, I'm one myself) is employed to show children how to do "things". These "things" may have no relevance whatsoever to the kids everyday life, and thus the kids may find scool completely pointless.

The kids does not ever see the teacher beeing "payed" or appreciated for his/hers work by others, so they can't judge the quality of that person compared to others. In the end, this may cause the lack of respect that so many teachers experience in scool every single day.

Now...

I know this sounds pretty naiive. I know that the level of abstraction is considerably higher today - you can't just show or teach all things worth knowing by doing them with your hands while the kids watch.

But at least try to work with me here folks... Man has been solving problems using his brain and his hands for a million years. Suddenly, within a few decades, we expect man to solve problems only with his brain. We're just not geared to do it.
The modern society demands it from us? Well, thats just too bad. It still won't work! Today we know that there is a connection between the increasing demand for intellectual work and the still increasing problems with stress. The brain can only handle so much information at a time.

What does people do in order to de-stress? well, it's simple; they do things instead of just sitting in front of their computers: Gardening, exercise, painting, mountain-climbing, you name it...

The human body is ment to be in motion - all day long. So why do we organize ourselves towards moving lesser and lesser? In scool, at work, in our free time...

So, trying to get back to the point: In my honest opinion THIS is one of the major the problem with scools today. There are others, but let's save them, shall we. This post is by far too long already.

*phew* Carries you away, such things... need a break. Weigh in, please. Tell me why I'm all wrong.

H.H.

 

[Grayson]

Re: something that i am worried

I wouldn't even presume to tell you that you were wrong here as it is such a subjective topic. I will say that I found this to be a well thought argument though and I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Alpha and 0mega]

Re: something that i am worried

Right now,students are being tested on simply one of the most commom human skill,and that is memorising.It would indeed be much fair and reasonable if they will to grade us from a series of I.Q test.

 

[StarLord]

Re: something that i am worried

Heinrich,

If the teacher takes the time to describe the leaps in thinking, the students can get a glimpse of a proper logical train of thought. Much the same way Chess is taught, any particular move just might be the right one UNTIL you use your logical reasoning and start to look ahead as to why any particular move may be the wrong one. Do this type of verbal reasoning and you can not only teach the kids how to use deductive reasoning and a primer in logic.

 

[BubbuClinton]

Re: something that i am worried

Well, whether there is a government conspiracy to dumb the populace down, an inept school system, or a genetically manipulated DNA issue, A & O is on the verge of making some very important decisions. I truly believe what you do at the very young age or 13-19 can have a great influence on the rest of your life.

So let?s talk real world experience.

1) Do you need to be brilliant at 13? No. Most really brilliant people don?t do well in early school classes because they haven't concerned them selves in studying how to get good grades. Either, they get distracted because they are interested in the topic or they care about other things. Some times they just think they know more than teachers. But always remember the teach gets the grade and you don?t have to deal with them after you leave the class.

2) Is 13 a good time to consider the Future? Absolutely. At 13 you have a choice to try to excel in your education, drop out from life and coast, pick friends that will get you in trouble or pick friends that will help you grow. If you are wise enough to know you need to learn more, and at 13 you do need to learn more, you will start notice how others get good grades. I would wager that others are not simply memorizing. Memorizing is a way to get some answers correct, however, what is important is the way you go about memorizing. Here are some tips from an old student that sucked in Junior high but finally became a Lawyer and an Engineer.

1) Read the book. Don't just look at it or just doodle in it Actually read the book. I recommend that before you go to class, read about the topic that is being covered first. For example, if you are going to a Social Studies class, First look at the chapter headings, then Read the highlighted parts, then go back an actually read the chapter. Next outline the chapter. Simply organize the chapter in your own hand or on computer and summarize each main point in each paragraph. Pay attention to names, dates, concepts and actually look at the foot notes

2) Go to class: Take your outline to class and make notes on it about what the teacher thinks is important. Be active in class and ask about the things that were in the book that the teacher did not cover. The teacher will love you and always give you the benefit of a doubt. Maybe extra credit points. Then fill out your outline

3) Do all of the homework. Don't skip. In math classes, if you are having trouble with a concept, do all of the problems in the chapter. Not just the ones that are assigned. If you do them all you will see examples of all of the strange situations and you will probably see the test questions anyway.

4) Study your outline for the test. Then Re-skim the book for missed topics.

If you do these 4 steps, it will appear that you memorized like everyone else, however, what you really will have done is actually Learned the subject. It will be in you long term memory. You will become an A student and ace every class. School before graduate school (except for engineering degrees), is only meant to present concepts to you and you are tested on whether you understand them. By doing the 4 steps you will quickly identify where you need extra help, if you do, and you won't waste a lot of time studying. Just study smart.

Also, don't cloud you mind with trash. At 13 a lot of things look attractive, like ?Hey lets play Xbox for 48 hours straight?. Don't do it. Go a head a play for a while, but remember it is just a game and means nothing to you so don't get addicted. Also Girls start looking really good. By 16 they will look even better. However, what ever your moral background, do everything you can not to have a child before you are at least 20.
I would wait longer if I were you. This may not seem important now, but in a few year it will become more challenging.

Don't try heavy narcotics or alcohol, they won't help and it may take you 20 years to figure out you are not 13 any more. I would stay away from playful drugs too. I know there are many here that think that can expand their minds with magic weed and mushrooms, but don't consider it until you understand the consequences, I would say wait until your are 50 before trying. By then you decide if you care and you really will not have missed anything other than a lot of grief.

Also, have fun. By studying smart it will give time to do other things like music, sports, chess, computers, what ever. But do something that develops talents and skills. Don't just watch TV. Do things and enjoy life.

The fact that you are on this board means you have interest in things that are beyond most 13 year old people, therefore, you are not stupid. You are not drugged by the government, and you will just have to deal with the DNA given to you. Getting good grades is a process. Just do the process of learning the correct way and life will be simpler for you.

It is very important to "get the paper" like others have stated. Later in life it opens many doors that you were probably not born into. You can change your situation in life by simply learning how to learn.

Go for it, Brush your teeth and don't worry about Fluoride in the tooth paste. It is more important to kill the germs than it is to mind expanding drug induced experiences anyway.

Have faith that you can do it and just go do it. Don't worry about bad teachers or inept schools systems. Take what you have, use it, learn what you can and succeed.

Good Luck and God (or Alien) bless.

Bubbu

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[StarLord]

Re: something that i am worried

Great Post Bubbu.