The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

[Harte]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

All,

There is as much a case to be made against more regulations as there is for them.

Fact is, for those that want Clinton back, the "bad credit risk" loans that are part of the current financial implosion were enabled by regulations implemented by the Clinton administration.

This is not to point fingers though. Most federal regulations have wide and unanticipated consequences, and the consequences often accomplish precisely the opposite of what was originally intended.

I have to say here that the government bailouts of the various institutions, and the RTC-like bailout of the housing industry, are necessary because most of the problems originally stem from government intervention in trying to get financing to people "on the bubble," those that couldn't get a mortgage before and that therefore were left out of the "American Dream."

I agree with the bailouts, though, because without government intervention in the past, government intervention wouldn't be needed in the present.

Otherwise, I'd say let these companies suffer and die.

The freemarket approach, IOW.

Harte

 

[gonzogirl]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

Thats a good point bout Clinton...funny how many admins are responsible....
What an odd twist of fate we have here in America.
An economic collapse is a reason to SPEED UP the election. I cant imagine stopping it...
I just don't see Bush doing it but he has done so much other crap that astounds me that who Knows?
What really bothers me is the Paulson deal. That bastard wants a blank ckeck from the feds to do what with? And wants no review from any administrative agency or court. SERIOUSLY?
Uh thats what got us into this big pile of poo to begin with...
And I am just cynical enough to think that will happen.
Im starting to worry about us and whether we are brainwashed or not.....

 

[Chip Lewis]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

I have to say here that the government bailouts of the various institutions, and the RTC-like bailout of the housing industry, are necessary because most of the problems originally stem from government intervention in trying to get financing to people "on the bubble," those that couldn't get a mortgage before and that therefore were left out of the "American Dream."

I agree with the bailouts, though, because without government intervention in the past, government intervention wouldn't be needed in the present.

Otherwise, I'd say let these companies suffer and die.

The freemarket approach, IOW.

Harte

Your assessment is sensible. But, I really do like the idea of letting these banks just fail (flat out). I'm under the impression that they all knew they would get a bail out, and (to be frank) it pisses me off.

If a person bought a house and the bank didn't verify the borrower?s income (thoroughly), not only does the borrower get the shaft with a foreclosure (destroying their credit) but the bailouts make them pay for it anyway via taxes. Not to mention the fact that some of us that have kept up on our finances (quite well) will be footing the bill for all these fuckups in the end.

I smell corruption on a grand scale. Now the Federal Bureau of Idiots is investigating some of the majorly corrupt players, we might see some malfeasance.

Note: I said might?

 

[gonzogirl]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

I keep hearing from people that the homeowners were trying to live above their means and that they are responsible for everything. I think it's bull. I don't want to hold the people who bought the homes responsible because I think that buyer beware does not apply in these cases cuz the fraud began so lang ago. the words sub prime spell it out. Loans for people that cannot afford it. Sub~prime.
It is coming out slowly that there will be MASSIVE fraud found.
I want the homeowners to be able to renegotiate their mortgages and stay in their homes. The gov should also make all the credit card companies take away all the late fees and fradulent ways of changing the interest at the drop of a dime.
Credit cards are evil and nobody should use them

 

[Harte]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

Your assessment is sensible. But, I really do like the idea of letting these banks just fail (flat out). I'm under the impression that they all knew they would get a bail out, and (to be frank) it pisses me off.

Yeah, me too.

If a person bought a house and the bank didn't verify the borrower?s income (thoroughly), not only does the borrower get the shaft with a foreclosure (destroying their credit) but the bailouts make them pay for it anyway via taxes. Not to mention the fact that some of us that have kept up on our finances (quite well) will be footing the bill for all these fuckups in the end.

You're getting too pissed, now Chip.
The bailouts will (primarily) be to help keep solvent the companies that bought shares of mortgages that were bundled together into huge piles of asset debt. These mortgages had been bought and sold several times after the original mortgage was proffered by the original lender. They were assets in the sense that they were supposed to pay off at the rate agreed to by the homebuyers. People leveraged other deals by using these kinds of assets.

Anyway, just like with the RTC, this isn't a complete handout of cash. The Gov. will end up buying mortgages that others can no longer hold and may well foreclose on the owners if they can't pay. The Gov. then re-sells the property and recoups quite a bit of the cost. So it's not as if anyone's gonna make wads of cash from this, except for companies that right now start immediately setting up to handle these transactions with the government (and, of course, lawyers - they always make the money.)

Got any capital? I just had an idea!

Gonzogurl,

I agree with the credit card thing - don't use them - but I disagree about forgiving any late fees.

If you stop using them, start with the least of them and pay it off while making min. payments on your others.

Once the first is paid off, take the amount you were paying them and add it to the payment you're making on your next least card. Do that until it's paid off.

Then take that amount and add it to your payment on the next least card and do that until it's paid off.

Etc. etc. etc.

It's called the credit card snowball method. You pay out exactly the same amount every month (you'll have to up the payment on that first card, though, so it will pay off reasonably quickly) and you actually see your debt vanish over a reasonable time.

The beauty is you more quickly have fewer bills to deal with. If you follow this, there won't be any late fees.

First, though, you've got to get all cards down under their limits, if any are above them.

Harte

 

[Grayson]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

I kinda agree with Gonzogirl, as card companies are hiking their rates up even as we speak. The net effect is that cuctomers who could pay more than the minimum payment are being squeezed closer to the redline whilst the card companies use those that will pay to cover the debts of those that can't pay. I have an MBNA card which I haven't used in about 3 years and I got an interest update and change to T&C today from them. The APR has gone up from 9.9% to 34.6% and the minimum payment has gone from 3.5% to 5%. That's gonna encourage me to use it. I just worry about the poor saps on the fringe with these things.

I listened to Cary at CC.net and re-negotiated a new mortgage on my home with a fixed APR for 5 years at .75% below Bank of England base rate 12 months ago. It cost me ?500.00 at the time, but it's now about 3.25% below bank lending rates. Again, people who couldn't afford to fix their mortgages are being bitten left, right and centre as banks seek to keep shareholders happy.

The system has been playing footloose and fancy-free for far too long and I do feel that some damage to the system would be justified by letting banks that have played on the margins for too long to go bust and let the shareholders scream. Then, the Govt could negotiate a bail-out for the customers, you know, the daily taxpayers...

... I know that plan wouldn't work, but I'd like to see Joe-schmoe get treated like his money and his life was worthy of saving too.

 

[jurgen36]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

Yeah, me too.
Anyway, just like with the RTC, this isn't a complete handout of cash. The Gov. will end up buying mortgages that others can no longer hold and may well foreclose on the owners if they can't pay. The Gov. then re-sells the property and recoups quite a bit of the cost. So it's not as if anyone's gonna make wads of cash from this, except for companies that right now start immediately setting up to handle these transactions with the government (and, of course, lawyers - they always make the money.)
Harte

I do believe it is not quite that easy. A hell of a lot of the properties are not really worth anything anymore. A few banks tried to sell reprocessed houses for a dollar or so but could not find any buyers. They usually have no plumbing left, the doors and window frames are stolen, the roof tiles are missing and in a few cases even the floor boards have been ripped out. This houses will be a liability for the government. The council charges still have to be paid, and they also have to pay for the demolition of whatever is still standing. So as far as I can see it the government should stay away. If they want to rape the tax payer well its fine with me as I fortunately do not live in the US of A. In the other developed countries they just laugh at the US people and say well they have the government they deserve. I will not go so far but its really up to the people to say no, up to here and not further. After all there are enough lampposts around waiting to be used for a general cleanup of the administration.
Regards

 

[Chip Lewis]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

All I can say about today is...Mmmm Hmmm....

 

[Num7]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

All I can say about today is...Mmmm Hmmm....

What about tomorrow ? What do you think will happen ?

 

[Keroscene]

Re: The implosion is accelerating; prepare while you can

What about tomorrow ? What do you think will happen ?

THey'll begin revising the bill that didnt pass so they can push it through again? I read it came pretty close to passing.