The United States Was Not Founed On The Christian Religion

jcolanzi

Active Member
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946
I applaud much of what Trump is doing but, I'm disturbed by the constant push of Christianity and the false narrative that we were founded as a Christian nation.

This is not true. Religion has been used throughout history to excuse many evil deeds. Just ask the Native Americans, blacks, Chinese etc.

Here's what the founding fathers really said.

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”
Thomas Paine

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
Thomas Jefferson,

“No religious doctrine shall be established by law.”
Elbridge Gerry

“Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”
James Madison

This is just the tip of the iceberg of what can be found in the writing if the founding fathers. I'm not out to bash Christianity, but it worries me because it's a falsehood and if we're to move forward as a nation it should be based on truth.

It also worries me because I'm not a Christian and how can I be free if I'm bound by laws based on Christian tenets rather natural law.
 

dh1

Active Member
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638
I think when people say that, they are being typically inarticulate.

What they really mean is the gov was separated from government but still upon benevolent values that are mirroed in religion as well. Don't kill, don't enslave, don't force beliefs, etc.

They mean America was found culturally under Christian beliefs(all the colonists were Christian by a huge percentage) but the gov was not.

Government isn't America, people forget that. American government is the LACK of government. I think it's due to modern people associating America with a government identity.

I think of America(well the constitutional republic that went bankrupt and no longer exists years ago) as like a hole on the surface of the planet where government didn't exist. Everywhere else gov was like a blanket covering all countries like a plague. American colonies were the freest place in the entire world. Almost no laws at all. Even less after the revolution.

To settle this argument, ya can say the cultural values of the society(christanity) are reflected in government by default. Not by decree which it obviously wasn't cuz the framers really hated the Church of england gov and rightly so.

Gov still reflects the values of the people subconsciously. Would have to cuz it's a republic democracy.
 

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dh1

Active Member
Messages
638
If aliens landed tomorrow and the military released all the suppressed medicine and technology. Our culture and thereby gov would be forever changed by it and that's ok. Change happens.

Government would obviously pass new laws and even constitutional amendments to change society, that's ok too.

Aliens and Tesla would be heralded as heroes, we might even adopt parts of alien goverment ideas into our own as alien culture is widely accepted.

I honestly accept our new leader and savior, insect overlord. hehe.

Years from now people will argue and say our government was reformed by alien values, I will disagree and say it was by decree of people to do so, just as all the founding fathers were Christians(well most) and formed the US gov.
 

jcolanzi

Active Member
Messages
946
Listen to people and you'll see they do think the country was founded as Christian nation.

Read the writings of Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson, they were not Christians.

“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.”
John Adams

“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
Thomas Jefferson"

“The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs.”
Thomas Jefferson
 

dh1

Active Member
Messages
638
doesn't matter.
ur not paying attention.

I can find the same number of quotes from other founding fathers that support christanity and said the US is founded upon it's principles.

Do two groups of quotes from the same group of founding fathers cancel out? Will they explode like antimatter?
 

jcolanzi

Active Member
Messages
946
I am paying attention. Laws based on religious tenets will add to the rhetoric that if you don't agree you're not only unpatriotic, you're an uneducated savage defying the laws of God. Maybe you're a Christian and it won't bother to have the laws skewed to the Christian teachings.

I'm not and to have to follow laws that go against my beliefs is a burr in my side.

Also by skewing the laws toward Christianity Trump is no different than Obama skewing the laws towards illegals.

Same s**t different day.
 

dh1

Active Member
Messages
638
wait a minute there, be nicey, we're having a nice convo.

The argument you present is based on the quotes from john adams and Thomas Jefferson, both who were prominent in the formation of the US gov. However others were involved, several others who highly edited, and rewrote passages of the declaration of independence and the constitution.

So how do we enumerate the importance of each contributor? Can't really. It's all arbitrary. Was Washington more important based on his military successes or Jefferson who wrote the declaration? How about those who removed his slavery ban from it?

Anyways, point being, both Christians and non-christians helped form the US gov. BOTH. Thankfully solid rationale prevailed allowing solid ethics to be codified as law without the dogma of Christianity like from the Church of England.

I think it worked out pretty well.

Constitution reminds me of the 10 commandments, don't kill, don't steal, don't lie(to police anyway), don't cheat(when in legal marriage), etc. Basically a list of stuff not to do, rather than do like more elaborate Christian doctrines. It's a pretty safe place to be, halfway into christianity, halfway out.

Anyways God is obviously a libertarian, doesn't force himself on anyone ever. He allows people freedom to sin, so does the constitution. Well it used to before the constitutional republic was bankrupted and re-organized into the fascist fake christian hellhole today.

Remember constitution requires an injured party for a law to be legal. That means traffic laws, drug laws, most laws are illegal. Including income taxes, payroll taxes, etc. This is no longer the original intent. So don't blame christians for it, blame retard fake christians.

As society becomes more satanic and atheistic, they somehow simultaneously lose the same values the constitution was formed upon, freedom stuffz. Well vast majority of satanists and atheists do so.

Christanity as well as most religions are for the unselfaware masses. It's a spiritual and psychological starting point on the path to spirituality, not the end. If you're heavily asleep, religion is for ya. Turns out so is mainstream science and atheism, they both made the same mistakes as religious people as well but those 2 are harder to discern without time travel and free energy research. Huge, huge mistakes in conventional science that are covered up.

Anyways if you take the half-spiritual half-scientific path, you find scientific proof of god. After that you find religion isn't a 100% wrong, neither science. Both have major errors, so the path is to find out where they are.
 
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jcolanzi

Active Member
Messages
946
I'm not belligerent, I just know that following this path to the end will have consequences in the end. Not all good.

Being a Christian and being a founding father doesn't mean you were forming a Christian nation. The goal was a free nation. Ben Franklin was a Quaker, Thomas Paine said his mind was his church.

Did you know many of the Native American dances were illegal until the 20th century. That's a the affect of a religious mind set.

Religion is a mind set saying that you have God's backing to do what you will.

Manifest Destiney.
 

dh1

Active Member
Messages
638
sure, lots of ahole christians. Catholic church has done a lot of evil, all the christian demoninations have too.

More a cultural collapse problem. American christians are crazed, South American Christians are easy going, relaxed, open minded, African christians the same. On the flipside South America and Africa are really pretty horrible places to live. They're great places culturally and socially but economically no.

Kinda like the muslim problem, they're not nuts cuz of Islam but rather the predominate culture in that geographical region which is the same for several countries.

Whether the cause is religion or culture it gets all murky as to what causes what. It's fashionable lately to attack religion but it's really failing cultural values that's the cause of the evil.

America's been undergoing a serious cultural collapse in the last 30yrs if not more, Muslim nations have been in a cultural sewer for 6,000yrs since the formation of the deserts in africa, middle east and gobi. Quick formation is the cause of child abuse, cultural abuse of women there. Children were abandoned, patriarchial war footing started there.

Book by Orgone pioneer James DeMeo clearly charted this out in his book Sarahasia. Saharasia: The 4000 BCE Origins of Child Abuse, Sex-Repression, Warfare and Social Violence, In the Deserts of the Old World: James DeMeo: 9780980231649: Amazon.com: Books

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZKjlDFfC6...AAAiM/BTx-FOYJngU/s1600/worldmapSM-757646.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CKbqMJPmf18/hqdefault.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Sc-IQK_siKA/TZ26X5V7RwI/AAAAAAAABqI/5WEbuyjZ8jQ/s1600/diffusion2.JPG

There was no organized warfare before 6,000yrs ago. Everyone lived in agrarian socieities with only petty crime. No rape, no war.
 
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dh1

Active Member
Messages
638
I'm not belligerent, I just know that following this path to the end will have consequences in the end. Not all good.

Being a Christian and being a founding father doesn't mean you were forming a Christian nation. The goal was a free nation. Ben Franklin was a Quaker, Thomas Paine said his mind was his church.

Did you know many of the Native American dances were illegal until the 20th century. That's a the affect of a religious mind set.

Religion is a mind set saying that you have God's backing to do what you will.

Manifest Destiney.
American colonies were already christian by demographics. There were no muslims, no buddhists, no atheist enclaves, nothin. American indians weren't that large by number, actually pretty small. American indians couldn't grow into large populations cuz they didn't have highly developed agriculture, they were hunter-gatherer societies, that can't feed large populations.
 


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