The War on Christianity in America

[Khaos]

Be careful, Sam will come in here and denounce your post and claim that those "Christians" who caused the crusades, murdered Pagans because they refused to convert to Christianity, and also conquered pagan holidays and changed their names to Christmas and Easter, weren't true Christian's.

But that is my problem with Christianity, or any other religion out there. The one's who claim it sprang up overnight and also the ones who don't know jack shit what they are saying about their religion. They don't know the history. Christianity has a bloodied history and you'll find plenty of Christians out there trying to wipe the slate clean and claim its past, weren't true Christians. When they were.

I've met Christians out there who deny that Christianity was formed from Judaism. It was. The follower's of Christ's teachings formed the religion.

(old testament is judaism btw)

 

[Justinian]

LOL. I was just talking the other day with a coworker about a friend of mine that refused to believe about Christianity coming from Judaism. Different story for different day. But, all religions have bloodied histories. Even Buddhism. It comes with the territory of anything, not just religion, that if you are the big dog at the top of the pile, sooner or later someone is going to try and knock you off. When Vlad Tepest (AKA real life Dracula) got his infamy, it was from protecting Christianity from the invading Ottoman Turks. Sulemein (Ottoman ruler) got his fame from conquering other Muslim and pagan nations in the region. The Greeks and Romans waged wars over their difference in gods with their own people. As to my knowledge, I don't believe that there is one religion out there that can claim that they've never fought a war to further their religion. There was even the one Egyptian Pharoah that had lots of internal unrest and uprisings that he had to squash because he decided that there was only one god. Later I believe they converted back to polytheism to quell the masses. I have a little theory that Atheism today is sprung from pagans of old. This being that once pagans were forced to stop worshiping their old gods, some of them must have thought that either the gods abandoned them or that there just must not be gods at all. It's a stretch, but it could be possible. This "war" we are having now between Atheists and Christians is about pushing bounds. There are some hardliners on both sides that want to show that things can be done and loopholes can be found. Do I as an Atheist still speak aloud the word God when reciting the pledge of allegiance? Yes, not because of any moral or religious ideas, but because that's the exact words that were put into the saying.

There will always be differences of opinions and with them, you will always have people that have to push back. They just can't accept a difference and move on from it. They have to use whatever means they have available to push boundaries, to make people look. As Atheists worldwide struggle for recognition, it makes me wonder. Why? Why do push and act as hypocrits? I mean people get mad when someone says they want to save your soul that you should ask god for forgiveness and repent for being an Atheist. If that makes you mad, then why would you want to prothelitize your word that God isn't real and that everyone should listen to you? I have a best friend that is Atheist and his wife is Buddhist. He loves going to temple with her. Does that make him a hypocrit? No. I love listening and chatting with people of all religions. Mostly because I'm a history leech so I love learning about history of religion among other things.

1000 years from now there will be a new religion. And when that religion comes about there will be a war for it to take dominance. Whether that be a political, press, or military war.. it's going to happen. I have a hunch that when a new religion comes about it will be another offshoot of Judaism. But it is bound to happen. Our past dictates our future some would say, and our past dictates that religions change names, but the reasoning and words behind it will stay roughly the same.

 

[Justinian]

One thing sucks about all religions in the past and present is the desire to destroy relics of the other past religions. Just think of how much we could learn of the Central/ South American cultures if the Spanish didn't destroy everything. The most ancient religion (according to what I've read as far as geologic dating) is Zoroastrianism from the city of Merv. A lot of that religions carvings were destroyed. The Taliban destroying things throughout Afghanistan through the 80's and 90's. It just sucks. Regardless of any religious ideology they may have had to make them destroy these things.. it was setback of history worldwide and it's like there is a missing piece of human history in the world now. The Chinese refuse to let archaeologists into certain areas of their country. It's no wonder why after seeing what history dictates will happen if they let people near it. Even just rudimentary cave drawings. Nobody messed with them for 100's of years because they were considered sacred or holy. And then here comes the European settlers stomping through and carving their names next to it to show they were there. SMH. So it's not a bash on any one religion for me, it's some inerrant psychological issue that some people regardless of religion just don't care for differences of opinion or property of others and do what they feel is right regardless of what the consequences.

As for Sam, don't pick on Sam. I give her her props. Thick or thin she's always stood by her religion. I give respect to anyone for that. To say she comments harshly about slams on her religion, oh well. Christians do take the brunt of all religious debates. Like I stated before its the big dog scenario, but also that most people don't know enough about other religions to also slam them. So they focus on the one they grew up with. I've picked Sam's brains about her beliefs several times on here and we kept things peaceful. She's no dummy and that I also commend. There are a lot of people of all religions that would defend their beliefs, but really have no idea why other than the fact that it is what their parents believe so it must be true. Sam on the other hand has an awesome grasp of her beliefs and others (noted by the common Sam vs. the internet debates). So to see so many differences of opinion, and not just sit there with her thumbs in her ears to ignore us, but to also butt in and reply. That takes conviction. More conviction than a lot of Atheists I know.

 

[Khaos]

I was brought up Christian, used to attend Sunday school. Can remember them pounding it into my head "God wrote the bible" "The earth is 2,000 years old" when I became older, I just started questioning things, because I began to expand my knowledge on things. But then there was an incident a few years ago, that made me regain my faith. I don't identify myself as belonging to any major mainstream religions, but I do believe in a higher power, something out there that has influence on this world.

I see you reference Vlad the impaler, I'm into history as well. Ancient more so. Egyptians, Aztecs, Incans, Mayans. My problem with people is, they talk like they know what they are talking about, in terms of religion. Like the person you mentioned who believes Christianity didn't come from Judaism. That irks me. It shows pure ignorance and blindness.

In regards to Samstwitch, I don't mean to pick on her, I actually praise her on her views of homosexuality, as she is pro-gay. I praise her for defending her opinions and holding her ground when someone attempts to pick her apart. And no, I'm not calling her names, but I feel sometimes, she can be stubborn. Its like the John Titor stuff, yeah I feel that the guy was a real time traveler, but in regards to his mother publishing books, and appearing on Coast to Coast? I think that is a little overboard and draws more upon someone trying to cash in on the cow crop that is John Titor.

Just my main problem with her is, I don't see her think outside the box and question "What if?"

 

[Justinian]

Well, I think that the problem with a lot of people of ALL religions is that they never question the "what if" factor. I mean think about it.. if the Central and South American tribes had really a plan B or secondary religion other than everyone just following the one path, would not more of them have questioned the intentions of the Conquistadors?

If God sat down today or more like appeared in the form of a cloud today and spoke into all of our minds that he is real, he will no longer tolerate any religions except X, then how many people will still not believe and think it is an alien trick? This is the same argument as time travel. What will it really take to offer proof to some people. I personally don't believe that you can have a what if in your mind with religion. I mean when it comes to true believers, can you really call yourself a true believer of whatever religion if you are always wondering what if?

Therein lies the great debate. Atheists are so hell bent on trying to prove just one small fallacy to religions that don't want to, nay, cannot have their belief waver and still be a true believer. If I were a Christian I would be the one going kicking and screaming into the night before I would be tempted by any disbeliever. You just have to accept it for what it is. Religions have their beliefs. Atheists believe to not believe. Agnostics are kind of the fence riders. Willing to believe that something probably exists while never taking sides. If you talk with anyone from any religion about their beliefs and you want them to listen to you about your points, your mind can't be set on proving them wrong. That's how wars start. You have to be able to talk calmly while acknowledging the others points. To go into a conversation or debate with the only thought in your mind that the other person will eventually come around to your thinking won't work. A good debate is one where both sides can talk calmly while at the same time acknowledging each others points. In the end, it's okay to disagree still. This has to be the case otherwise we'd be living in the type of world that I want no part of.

 

[Justinian]

I just had this really funny thought pop into my head. Sitting in church and the preacher is talking about Jesus and redemption and all that.. then stops, looks up, and says, BUT we also have to think about our religious plan B. If God really doesn't exist or Jesus wasn't real, we need to always be thinking of a good cover story for when we die. LOL.

 

[Khaos]

I personally don't believe that you can have a what if in your mind with religion.

Jesus had a "what if" in his mind, when he questioned the teachings of Judaism, and created his own teachings, which led to him being executed, but seen as a Martyr and idolized through the centuries, with his followers, at some point questioning "what if" he was the son of God. And that is where Christianity begins.

I could write a big topic about Christianity and rewrite history, because I know how exactly it began. It began with a man who questioned things, had alternative ideas, opinions, views, that went against the norm of society at the time. Everyone at some point questions their beliefs and either finds some way to reinforce their beliefs, of they change their beliefs. Take you for example, were you born Atheist, or did you at some point question "what if" and become Atheist?

 

[Justinian]

I understand your point. You're preaching to the choir here. What I was trying to do is emphasize the point that others may be feeling. Think of it like this. If you're happy with life as you know it, would you really want someone telling you it's shitty and that your blinders are keeping that truth from you? I don't mean to venture that life without knowing religion is shitty, just that religion does make people happy. It fills a void in people's lives. Why would you want to press and press on someone only to show them that there's nothing here. Like a man that keeps pressing and pressing his girlfriend to open a present he buys for her. She wants to wait until after midnight for the exact hour of the anniversary, but he's so insistent that it's going to be the greatest gift she'll ever know. And then, she finally gives in to him, opens the box.. but it's empty. And now two people share in the knowledge that the box is empty. And so for Xmas that year, the girl takes the box, rewraps it and gives it to her mother the night before Xmas, and begs and begs.. etc and on goes the story. Point here in short. It's all good and well your beliefs or lack thereof, but why push and get upset when someone doesn't care to listen? You can type and yell until you're blue in the face, but sometimes it's just well enough to know that those people understand what you believe and that IF/when they choose to hear and listen, they know who they can come to. Sometimes it's better to listen, than to talk. I'm not doubting your knowledge or your enthusiasm, but if you want other people to respect what you believe or don't believe then you have to respect the fact they might listen, but will refuse to believe. I know for a fact right now that I could put some people I know in a time machine, take them back to ancient times and show them whether or not Jesus was real and take them to places that these miraculous events happened. Now the believers are not going to believe that your machine is real if nothing is there. The non believers will never believe it is real even if you see something. You see? This is a catch 22. I believe that as an Atheist it is not my job to push people into any one direction with respect to religions. I like being an Atheist because I was tired of being pushed. I don't want to do that to anyone else. Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly here though.


As for me personally. Not really. I asked why too many times and got no reply. I ventured into all sorts of other religions. I've tried almost all of them save Islam. They just didn't feel right to me. It wasn't really a what if, it was more of a feeling of not fitting in.

 

[Samstwitch]

Be careful, Sam will come in here and denounce your post and claim that those "Christians" who caused the crusades, murdered Pagans because they refused to convert to Christianity, and also conquered pagan holidays and changed their names to Christmas and Easter, weren't true Christian's.

There you go again, putting WORDS IN MY MOUTH just like when you WRONGFULLY accused me of being homophobic. You don't know what you are talking about.

In regards to Samstwitch, I don't mean to pick on her...

Absolutely UNTRUE. You are obsessed with me in a negative way.

 

[Justinian]

Would it be okay if I were obsessed with you in a positive way? just kidding. It's only the internet guys. Don't let it get to you. When an immovable object meets a.. OH I forget the rest but its a quandry of sorts.