Very Off Topic

Very Off Topic

Hack, welcome back!! (I hope your back safe and sound)

You will find that disturbing a persons safe and sound bubble that they have spent a lifetime deluding themselves into is tantamount to assult in their highminded opinion. Far be it from us to help another to see the light but you have to remember something very basic. Regardless of how right you are you still have to practice the golden rule here. After all, you wouldn't want to be "saved" without your permission would you? We have no right to shove the truth down another persons throat nor do we have the right to enroach upon their space nor step on their toes as it were.

Now this is the most frustrating part about having information that you know will really help other people. However, until you are asked, you just have to bide your time, or til the crap hits the fan and folks start to wake up.

It IS possible to help them trap themselves into waking up and that is by leaving the right bait. Tid bits of information placed at the right time can do wonders for some people, but sadly for the others, it takes the baseball bat technique for catching their attention and there will be plenty of that going on if we take a wrong turn.

Remember, it is always darkest before it gets pitch black. For some they are going to need to stumble around in the dark before they realize it is truly time to wake up. I am incouraged by some 500,000 folks braving threats to attend and protest, I bet that was a kick in the pants to the officials. If we can keep that kind of roll up, and EVERYBODY gets pissedoff and involved and vote for: NONE OF THE ABOVE.

If All of us Voted for: None Of The Above, what would happen?
 
Very Off Topic

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon@Aug 31 2004, 04:41 PM
Actually, the original version of the PA II was kept tightly under wraps and leaked on the internet. While I was printing out my version, Ashcroft was in Congress swearing that there was no such thing as the PA II.......
Click to expand...

Just went and read the Patriot Act II....

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Look at this:

Americans could have their citizenship revoked, if found to have contributed "material support" to organizations deemed by the government, even retroactively, to be "terrorist." As Hentoff wrote in the Feb. 28 Village Voice: "Until now, in our law, an American could only lose his or her citizenship by declaring a clear intent to abandon it. But -- and read this carefully from the new bill -- 'the intent to relinquish nationality need not be manifested in words, but can be inferred from conduct.

Legal permanent residents (like, say, my French wife), could be deported instantaneously, without a criminal charge or even evidence, if the Attorney General considers them a threat to national security. If they commit minor, non-terrorist offenses, they can still be booted out, without so much as a day in court, because the law would exempt habeas corpus review in some cases. As the American Civil Liberties Union stated in its long brief against the DSEA, "Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus -- a protection guaranteed by the Constitution -- since the Civil War.

The government would be instructed to build a mammoth database of citizen DNA information, aimed at "detecting, investigating, prosecuting, preventing or responding to terrorist activities." Samples could be collected without a court order; one need only be suspected of wrongdoing by a law enforcement officer. Those refusing the cheek-swab could be fined $200,000 and jailed for a year. "Because no federal genetic privacy law regulates DNA databases, privacy advocates fear that the data they contain could be misused," Wired News reported March 31. "People with 'flawed' DNA have already suffered genetic discrimination at the hands of employers, insurance companies and the government.

Authorities could wiretap anybody for 15 days, and snoop on anyone's Internet usage (including chat and email), all without obtaining a warrant.

The government would be specifically instructed not to release any information about detainees held on suspicion of terrorist activities, until they are actually charged with a crime. Or, as Hentoff put it, "for the first time in U.S. history, secret arrests will be specifically permitted.

Businesses that rat on their customers to the Feds -- even if the information violates privacy agreements, or is, in fact, dead wrong -- would be granted immunity. "Such immunity," the ACLU contended, "could provide an incentive for neighbor to spy on neighbor and pose problems similar to those inherent in Attorney General Ashcroft's Operation TIPS.

Police officers carrying out illegal searches would also be granted legal immunity if they were just carrying out orders.

Federal "consent decrees" limiting local law enforcement agencies' abilities to spy on citizens in their jurisdiction would be rolled back. As Howard Simon, executive director of Florida's ACLU, noted in a March 19 column in the Sarasota Herald Tribune: "The restrictions on political surveillance were hard-fought victories for civil liberties during the 1970s.

American citizens could be subject to secret surveillance by their own government on behalf of foreign countries, including dictatorships.


The death penalty would be expanded to cover 15 new offenses.
 
Very Off Topic

Originally posted by StarLord@Aug 31 2004, 10:13 PM

If All of us Voted for: None Of The Above, what would happen?
​
Click to expand...

The important question is this. What if no-one voted at all? No Democratic process could cope with that type of inaction.
 
Very Off Topic

I think NOT voting at all would be quite a feat. I wish someone was able to launch a campaign like this. Huge billboards saying "DON'T VOTE! DON'T PICK THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS!"
 
Very Off Topic

Originally posted by TheHeggy@Aug 31 2004, 05:34 PM
I think NOT voting at all would be quite a feat. I wish someone was able to launch a campaign like this. Huge billboards saying \"DON'T VOTE! DON'T PICK THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS!\"
​
Click to expand...


EVERYBODY PAY ATTENTION.

Not voting puts one of the major parties in office. There are plenty of knucleheads out there who will blindly vote for whoever "their" party puts up to run. What would really shake the PTB up would be for everybody to vote for a "third" party. So, if you think the two major party choices both suck (as I do), vote for something else - Libertarian, Green, Nader whatever, just don't vote Dem or Rep. No, we probably don't have enough conscious sheeple yet, but why vote for the "lesser of two evils" or really "waste your vote" by not voting? I did a stupid thing in 2000 and voted for W, because he was the "lesser of two evils", and boy was I wrong. Send the bastards a message by surprising them with a bigger than expected "other" party vote. My damned two cents.

Cary
 
Very Off Topic

Grayson,

I am surprised. Lets go back a few wars shall we. WWI, you know, a long way to tipparary and all that, if it wasn't for the US's involvement france would have been Kaiserville and I am quite sure that Pyro did not mean that it was the US singlehanded that did it. Without everybody that fought to push the boche back it would have been hard indeed.

But you have to grant that had the US stayed out of WWII until England fell, it would have been a very different world where gremany and russia carved up the pie of what was left of europe. Had we not supported Russia and aided England with arms, food and our own presence there eventually, I shudder to think what would become of the world. I believe that Pyro was refering to us(you know, the english, the americans, the freedom fighters from other countries) landing in Normandy, which could be construed as france, and yes we marched from that first beach landing all the way to Berlin, thus liberating france, Italy, poland, and a few other countries With the Help Of All Countries That Fought With Us.

Pyro has a valid point, the french are a very ungratefull nation on the whole and very quick to play like they are the swiss, UNTIL they need help. Bet you they come running with their non deodorized butts flying to Anyone that will help them when they get caught up in the mess if and when it happens.

Hundreds and HUNDREDS of thousands of US troops are burried all over france fighting for their freedom your freedom and our freedom. Think they remember that??? I can't tell you how many people I know that have visited there and have told me they will never go there ever again.

Being Imperialistic is not a new concept to our respective nations. In fact, it is part of a nations growth. The US just started a little late and for other reasons than to do the monoply thing. We had to keep russia from getting it all and spoiling it for the people that wanted other choices than socialism and comunism.
I seem to recall a saying that went something like this: The sun never sets on the British Empire. You know your own history better than I. How was such a saying possible?? Personaly, I am kind of jealous, they never said this about America.

Does the rest of the world hate Britan for what it did in the past?

All those colonies are now free to do what they want, they have their independance. You could justify that Britan uplifted them, gave them a chance to enter the 20th century, gave them a sence of what rightful law should be, left them with a fine infrastructure, you know the spiel.

Now a bully shows up and starts dictating to the rest of the world using threats of violence and death. No, not Bush, the Terrorists. Regardless of wether their claim to fame is trumped up, the facts reamin that they do alot of damage when surrounded by explosives and blow themselves up in a bus or train or market or where ever. The US may have gone about it a little Bass Ackwards, but who else in the world is going to?? I'll be damed if anybody is going to dictate to me because I do not agree with them or I chose to side with the side I feel is right. Screw em.

We would have been far better off closing our borders, and sending the needy nations to france, germany, italy, japan, china, russia, switzerland, hell the vatican for that matter, they are the largest corporation in the world and could afford it, let them sell off a portion of their porno they have been collecting for the last thousand years. If we had not lent a dime to the world for the last 50 years do you think we would be in the mess we are in now? Japan or China couldn't afford to buy here.

Does the rest of the world have every single penny that is OWED to the US and are they ready to pay it back now? Hell No, they want and Expect More handouts.
But it is ok to comdem somone that has been helping you survive when times get rough and come to their rescue when they need help?. Yup, happens all the time to the US. HOW SOON WE FORGET.

So, when someone tells me that the rest of the world hates my country because of what has happened in the last 10 years or so you think I give a rats ass? If the rest of the world wants to judge my country, let them come clean, pay every penny we ever lent them back NOW, right this instant. Then perhaps you can judge us, just dont call us ever again for help. I dont tolerate fools that expect me to lend them money just so they can spit on me when it seems fashionable because I know for a fact that the very same folks will be screaming for my help when they need someone big and tough willing to stand up to a world bully.

I have no respect for a country that refuses to recognize it's fair debts and pay them back. You want to hate the US and Britan? Go for IT, just don't come back begging for help because I am going to remember your sorry ass and how you treated me last time and tell you to go suck salt through a wooden spoon and spin.

(this was not directed at you Grayson my friend, but it Has been building a long time.)
 
Very Off Topic

Remember, it is always darkest before it gets pitch black.
--Starlord


Here's a thought: What if the allies had cut up the map the way they did in other parts of Europe and left the "liberation" of France to the Russians?
 
Very Off Topic

let them come clean, pay every penny we ever lent them back NOW, right this instant. Then perhaps you can judge us, just dont call us ever again for help.
Click to expand...
That money that they can not pay back is in the hands of multinational corporations. Corporations that were let in to their boarders under the promise of the benefits of "free" and "fair" trade. Too often "fair trade" becomes newspeak for "American interests".

America really does owe it opulence at the expense of the desperation else where on the planet. We consume and control disproportionate resources. The earth is incapable of providing the American standard of living for everyone.

Consider a thief who install a "security system" into the homes through out his community. This thief then takes various things from the homes that he installed the security system. He shows the home owners that it is part of the agreement that he signed with him. These people go without food, or heating, and live in bad conditions. While the thief lives far better than they would be able to live collectively. Now consider the thief getting all bent out of shape when the home owners start requesting meager improvements in their own conditions. In fact lets say it isn't even the thief but one of the children of the their who are concerned about a possible decrease in their allowance that the thief provides for his kids.

Well that is my perspective anyways.
 

Top