Was Jesus born with Original Sin?

[Angelface239]

You are backwards and deceived by satan... Anyone can see that you do not even know, love or care about GOD or The Son of the True God.

I agree. He said things as will when i was bringing up God as will on a new post that was posted calling him a prick.

 

[Angelface239]

I didn't mean it in an offensive or defensive manner, but rather a shout of the truth to awaken you from your stupification.
That is funny though, I find that weak people can't even find the strength to even open up The Holy Bible and read it for themselves...

Here are some of the examples to were written for us:


John 3:16-17 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.


Luke 22:15 ESV
And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.


1 John 2:2 ESV
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 10:1-39 ESV
For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; ...

Romans 5:8 ESV
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Hebrews 9:12 ESV
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

John 14:6 ESV
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1 Timothy 2:5 ESV
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Philippians 2:6-8 ESV
Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Isaiah 53:1-12 ESV
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 9:14 ESV
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Mark 10:45 ESV
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Ephesians 5:2 ESV
And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

John 15:13 ESV
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Galatians 2:20 ESV
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:25 ESV
Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Hebrews 2:17 ESV
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

John 1:29 ESV
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Matthew 20:28 ESV
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Hebrews 10:10 ESV
And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Titus 2:14 ESV
Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Hebrews 13:15 ESV
Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.

Hebrews 10:12-14 ESV
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Acts 2:38 ESV
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 2:14 ESV
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Ephesians 2:18 ESV
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 Peter 2:24 ESV
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Revelation 1:5 ESV
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

1 John 4:10 ESV
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Hebrews 10:12 ESV
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

John 6:50-71 ESV
This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ...

Hebrews 10:14 ESV
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

1 John 1:7 ESV
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 9:28 ESV
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

1 Corinthians 5:7 ESV
Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

Romans 8:32 ESV
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

Matthew 20:18-19 ESV
“See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”

Matthew 10:38 ESV
And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Hebrews 13:16 ESV
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Philippians 2:5-8 ESV
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

1 John 3:16 ESV
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.

Ephesians 1:7 ESV
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Luke 23:46 ESV
Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

Luke 14:27 ESV
Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

Ephesians 5:1-2 ESV
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 ESV
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

Romans 5:18 ESV
Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Hebrews 10:19 ESV
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,

1 Corinthians 11:27-30 ESV
Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

Romans 6:23 ESV
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:13 ESV
Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

Matthew 16:24 ESV
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Revelation 13:8 ESV
And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Hebrews 1:1-14 ESV
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? ...

Romans 5:1 ESV
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:5 ESV
Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;

Hebrews 4:15 ESV
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Colossians 1:18 ESV
And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

Hebrews 9:26 ESV
For then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Okay.

 

[TimeFlipper]

I agree. He said things as will when i was bringing up God as will on a new post that was posted calling him a prick.

Yes that's right...It appears that our member has a deep rooted hatred for our Christian God...I think he overlooks that its people not God, that has done the vile things he mentions..

 

[Angelface239]

Yes that's right...It appears that our member has a deep rooted hatred for our Christian God...I think he overlooks that its people not God, that has done the vile things he mentions..

Okay that true only people would seem to do those kinds of things not God himself.

 

[Gnostic Christian]

Yes that's right...It appears that our member has a deep rooted hatred for our Christian God...I think he overlooks that its people not God, that has done the vile things he mentions..

People caused Noah's flood.

Wow.

The bible lies quite a bit then. Or you do.

Regards
DL

 

[Papirika]

Was Jesus born with Original Sin?

If so, then he could not be the perfect sacrifice.

If not, then he had no human side and was pure god, and god cannot die which, makes the sacrifice a lie.

Could these facts be why the Jews have no Original Sin concept in their religion?

Is that also why Jews rejected Jesus as their messiah, or did they just recognize the immorality of anyone using a scapegoat and the abdication of one’s responsibility for their actions, which is against all moral legal systems?

Why have Christians embraced such an immoral and illegal concept?

Regards
DL

Hello again my friend. You are making my boring days way less boring ! ^^

Jesus don't have the original sin because he was not born from humans but was directely put in Mary's belly !

But you are right, if he had being mad by humans he would be a sinner and wouldn't be able to be the sacrifice.

He was 100% god inside but his body and nature were human. If he wasn't human he could not be the sacrifice, because it needed to be a human who never sinned. But if he was full human we wouldn't be able to ressucitate or to forgive people's sins, as god is the one who can make those things.

So it was more like a human burrito with god filling inside. When he died his god nature was released and he became full god again.

And Jews do have the original sin concept : Remember that the first 5 books from the old testiment where the genesis is located is nothing else but the Jewish Torah.

Jew people rejected Jesus for 3 resons:

1-They expected some rich and powerful king take would defeat the roman empire. AKA an David 2.0
Needless to say it didn't happened and no one liked the guy who keept saying that they had to die and that his kingdom was from another realm. But many jewish people believed in him.

2-Jesus keep calling hypocrytical people out, and he was kind of a threat to some really powerful dudes. They didn't liked.

And 3 - He keep saying stuff like he was the son of god, putting himself side by side with god, forgiving peoples sins, etc... Wich was a terrible heresy for the jew.

So no morality inssue here, they just didn't liked him.

But what imoral and illegal concept are you talking about ? The sin or Jesus sacrifice ?

 

[Gnostic Christian]

Hello again my friend. You are making my boring days way less boring ! ^^

Jesus don't have the original sin because he was not born from humans but was directely put in Mary's belly !

Religion can be a fascinating topic.

If Jesus was not human as you say, then he is not a good example of how humans should act and that basically negates the notion that he died for us, and even that he can die if he is a god.

But you are right, if he had being mad by humans he would be a sinner and wouldn't be able to be the sacrifice.

Good.

Substitutional punishment is quite a vile notion of justice, that Christians satanically embrace.

He was 100% god inside but his body and nature were human. If he wasn't human he could not be the sacrifice, because it needed to be a human who never sinned. But if he was full human we wouldn't be able to ressucitate or to forgive people's sins, as god is the one who can make those things.

Sounds like what Christians say. They usually say 100% man and 100% god, which is not mathematically correct, and a rather idiotic notion.

That breaks the law of the excluded middle.

You have already disqualified him as a sacrifice but seem to be hedging your bets now. Make up your mind my friend. Jesus is either a man or a god and cannot be both, unless, like us Gnostic Christians, you see Jesus as a man, and as us able to become exactly like him, as shown in this following.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

And Jews do have the original sin concept : Remember that the first 5 books from the old testiment where the genesis is located is nothing else but the Jewish Torah.

Jew people rejected Jesus for 3 resons:

1-They expected some rich and powerful king take would defeat the roman empire. AKA an David 2.0
Needless to say it didn't happened and no one liked the guy who keept saying that they had to die and that his kingdom was from another realm. But many jewish people believed in him.

2-Jesus keep calling hypocrytical people out, and he was kind of a threat to some really powerful dudes. They didn't liked.

And 3 - He keep saying stuff like he was the son of god, putting himself side by side with god, forgiving peoples sins, etc... Wich was a terrible heresy for the jew.

So no morality inssue here, they just didn't liked him.

But what imoral and illegal concept are you talking about ? The sin or Jesus sacrifice ?

Read the story again.

The last super shows Jesus choosing his best man, Judas, to turn him in and the other apostles just sitting there doing nothing to stop it.

The Trial story shows Rome washing their hands of Jesus' murder and the Jews accepting it on their heads. Why? Because Jesus wanted to suicide to test the resurrection myth and showed it to be false as he did not return to rule as the prophesy called for.

That is why Jews rejected Jesus. He did not deliver.

The immoral aspects of Christians wanting to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven follows in an old O.P. that Christians run from as they know I am correct and they cannot do any apologetics against my views.

I am rather prolific and tend to forget what I said to who and hope I am not duplicating anything now or later.

----------

On Jesus dying for you.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian]

And 3 - He keep saying stuff like he was the son of god, putting himself side by side with god, forgiving peoples sins, etc... Wich was a terrible heresy for the jew.

I missed this.

Most do not know that the Jewish religion is directed by those who hold the Oral Torah. They are the ones who have always put man above god.

If you re-read where Jesus is threatened with stoning for calling himself god, you will see that he quotes the scriptures to get off the hook.

He asked, have ye forgotten that ye are gods and children of the most high?

Most have and I remind them with the quotes in the post just above.

As to his forgiving sin. Jews always forgave sin as scriptures say that we will only be forgiven for what we are willing to forgive.

Regards
DL

 

[Papirika]

I missed this.

Most do not know that the Jewish religion is directed by those who hold the Oral Torah. They are the ones who have always put man above god.

If you re-read where Jesus is threatened with stoning for calling himself god, you will see that he quotes the scriptures to get off the hook.

He asked, have ye forgotten that ye are gods and children of the most high?

Most have and I remind them with the quotes in the post just above.

As to his forgiving sin. Jews always forgave sin as scriptures say that we will only be forgiven for what we are willing to forgive.

Regards
DL

1-By no means jews put themselves above god

2-Jesus only got of the hook so many times because he refused to give a direct anwer.

3-In the end was the son of god thing that ended up killing him.

4-Jews didn't just forgive sins, they did it by a sacrifice (That christians believe to represent jesus.), and this sacrifice and the way it should be done was decided by God. So god was the one forgiving sins.

5-You should read the full chapters by youself instead of just some parts. this

He asked, have ye forgotten that ye are gods and children of the most high?

Is not Jesus or god, but Psalms. Which were just music and poetry from the jewish people, not the world of god.

Here is one: "Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

3 At this, some of the teachers of the Law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6 But so that you might know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sin . . . .” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”

7 And the man got up and went home. 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe, and they praised God, who had given such authority to men."

In this specific part as in many others they didn't killed Jesus because they were afraid that the people would go against them.

"The chief priests and the scribes heard this, and began seeking how to destroy Him; for they were afraid of Him, for the whole crowd was astonished at His teaching."- Mark 11:18

"And they were seeking to seize Him, and yet they feared the people, for they understood that He spoke the parable against them. And so they left Him and went away."- Mark 12:12

 

[NIXIE]

Don't bother with trying to teach Gnostic Christian anything that makes sense out of God's Word The Holy Bible, because Gnostic Christian is far far beyond deceived by satan. Gnostic Christian could be strapped into a clockwork orange seat for years and have the Holy Bible read to him over and over and over and still the demons inside of him would prevent his selfish disgusting self from accepting the truth of it all. If you really want some peace, just ignore the kinds of people that Gnostic Christian has become, they are the ones that will keep the fires of hell well stoked.