A simple experiment

[Ayasano]

A few days ago I came up with an idea, while thinking about messages left for future/past selves or trusted individuals, or as a means to contact someone. Leaving yourself a message seems like an easy thing to do at first, but when you start to think about it, it's actually somewhat complicated. (I myself have several avenues of communication set up. No messages yet though)

Will your message still be around far in the future? Will it be easy for your future self to remember that such a message would even exist? And if so, how would they find it? Websites shut down all the time, and physical messages are subject to decay and erosion.

If your future self or a trusted invidual travelled to the past and left a message for you, how would you know it was real? (We'll assume that your future self doesn't track you down directly to talk to you, because they either aren't allowed, or you're difficult to find)


There are only realy two places I know of on the internet that content is stored long-term, and only one of those allows you to search that content directly. That would be Google's cache. (The other is the Wayback Machine, which currently only searches via URL) From what I can tell, non-existent sites only get removed from Google's cache if someone submits a removal request, but I may be wrong. Google itself is likely to be around for a very long time. Incidentally, it seems to take a couple of weeks for content to be archived, as some threads from this site from the end of July are available in the Google cache, while more recent messages don't seem to be.

So now you have a way to search for messages, but what do you search for? You can't know a message in advance to search for it.

ba9e227b9b4ae48763a6cf71e2592b2cc7064aa770419791104389cb0700e92b8bade336127e7aca6f2e843b6164ad8bac6d5ce3f41a618c60440be211cd7781

That is the first half of a passphrase, (all lower case, no punctuation, just spaces) run through the SHA-512 algorithm. ( Calculate a SHA-512 hash ) It's unique enough that it will only appear in Google's cache if someone specifically posts it somewhere. As long as you remember the passphrase and have access to the SHA-512 algorithm, you can search for it to find messages left by your younger self, or accounts that can be contacted. (Put it in a forum signature, for example) Your elder self can leave messages marked with the second half of the phrase, and you can use a second passphrase privately to prove you are who you say you are.


For most people this experiment will be entirely useless, but as a transhumanist I have every intention of living a long, long time, and maybe in that time I'll discover time travel, or meet someone who has. Perhaps one of you will post a similar beacon here and receive a message with the private passphrase. Who knows?

Edit: In an interesting note, it seems Google already crawled this page and added it to the cache. That was much faster than I thought.

 

[IroncladMarshmallow]

Sorry, Roger Rabbit, it's never that simple. There are always things we can't foresee in the present day. To remember a conversation we had years ago takes special skill, and to remember a passcode even more. The best cryptographic techniques are those which are not published. The future makes extensive use of these, but it is not to be shared with the past. It is not up to oneself to prove time travel to a younger self.

 

[Ayasano]

Sorry, Roger Rabbit, it's never that simple. There are always things we can't foresee in the present day. To remember a conversation we had years ago takes special skill, and to remember a passcode even more. The best cryptographic techniques are those which are not published. The future makes extensive use of these, but it is not to be shared with the past. It is not up to oneself to prove time travel to a younger self.

The purpose of the SHA-512 algorithm is not to protect the passphrase. It's there to ensure a long sequence of digits that is unlikely to show up in searches unless specifically posted. The second passphrase that only you know is the one that has to be kept secret, and that doesn't need to be hashed. This isn't a method for secret communications, merely a way to reconnect over longer timeframes than we're used to. I should stress that if you're trying to set things up like this, you should always have more than one avenue open.

As far as remembering an old conversation, that was my point. You don't have to. You just have to remember a short word or phrase. It can be anything, and if it has meaning to you, that's even better, makes it easier to remember.

And lastly, this isn't really to get anyone to prove anything. It's just another avenue of communication being made available, should it be necessary. (As you said, there are things we can't forsee. What if we needed to warn ourselves about something, but we couldn't because we had no way to contact ourselves? Or other such situations)

 

[JDHollisterTitor]

Sorry, Roger Rabbit, it's never that simple. There are always things we can't foresee in the present day. To remember a conversation we had years ago takes special skill, and to remember a passcode even more. The best cryptographic techniques are those which are not published. The future makes extensive use of these, but it is not to be shared with the past. It is not up to oneself to prove time travel to a younger self.

The purpose of the SHA-512 algorithm is not to protect the passphrase. It's there to ensure a long sequence of digits that is unlikely to show up in searches unless specifically posted. The second passphrase that only you know is the one that has to be kept secret, and that doesn't need to be hashed. This isn't a method for secret communications, merely a way to reconnect over longer timeframes than we're used to. I should stress that if you're trying to set things up like this, you should always have more than one avenue open.

As far as remembering an old conversation, that was my point. You don't have to. You just have to remember a short word or phrase. It can be anything, and if it has meaning to you, that's even better, makes it easier to remember.

And lastly, this isn't really to get anyone to prove anything. It's just another avenue of communication being made available, should it be necessary. (As you said, there are things we can't forsee. What if we needed to warn ourselves about something, but we couldn't because we had no way to contact ourselves? Or other such situations)

"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."

"But the Solar System!" I protested.

"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently; "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."

I was on the point of asking him what that work might be, but something in his manner showed me that the question would be an unwelcome one. I pondered over our short conversation, however, and endeavoured to draw my deductions from it. He said that he would acquire no knowledge which did not bear upon his object.

 

[Ayasano]

He said that he would acquire no knowledge which did not bear upon his object.

The man is of course a fool because it's increasingly obvious that more advanced science requires a lot of interdisciplinary work. You never know when a seemingly unrelated fact will help you. It's true, though, that the layman doesn't need to know everything. (Being somewhere in between I love to soak up new knowledge where I can. Unfortunately I never seem to finish reading the books I start. Blasted attention span!)

 

[JDHollisterTitor]

He said that he would acquire no knowledge which did not bear upon his object.

The man is of course a fool because it's increasingly obvious that more advanced science requires a lot of interdisciplinary work. You never know when a seemingly unrelated fact will help you. It's true, though, that the layman doesn't need to know everything. (Being somewhere in between I love to soak up new knowledge where I can. Unfortunately I never seem to finish reading the books I start. Blasted attention span!)

A fool? I suppose that's why his arch nemesis has a PhD in non-Euclidean geometries...
Spider Grandmother - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Indra's net - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



He said that he would acquire no knowledge which did not bear upon his object. Therefore all the knowledge which he possessed was such as would be useful to him. I enumerated in my own mind all the various points upon which he had shown me that he was exceptionally well-informed. I even took a pencil and jotted them down. I could not help smiling at the document when I had completed it. It ran in this way—

SHERLOCK HOLMES—his limits.

1. Knowledge of Literature.—Nil. 2. Philosophy.—Nil. 3. Astronomy.—Nil. 4. Politics.—Feeble.
5. Botany.—Variable. Well up in belladonna, opium, and poisons generally. Knows nothing of practical gardening.
6. Geology.—Practical, but limited. Tells at a glance different soils from each other. After walks has shown me splashes upon his trousers, and told me by their colour and consistence in what part of London he had received them.
7. Chemistry.—Profound.
8. Anatomy.—Accurate, but unsystematic.
9. Sensational Literature.—Immense. He appears to know every detail of every horror perpetrated in the century.
10. Plays the violin well.
11. Is an expert singlestick player, boxer, and swordsman.
12. Has a good practical knowledge of British law.

When I had got so far in my list I threw it into the fire in despair. "If I can only find what the fellow is driving at by reconciling all these accomplishments, and discovering a calling which needs them all," I said to myself, "I may as well give up the attempt at once."

I see that I have alluded above to his powers upon the violin. These were very remarkable, but as eccentric as all his other accomplishments. That he could play pieces, and difficult pieces, I knew well, because at my request he has played me some of Mendelssohn's Lieder, and other favourites. When left to himself, however, he would seldom produce any music or attempt any recognized air. Leaning back in his arm-chair of an evening, he would close his eyes and scrape carelessly at the fiddle which was thrown across his knee. Sometimes the chords were sonorous and melancholy. Occasionally they were fantastic and cheerful. Clearly they reflected the thoughts which possessed him, but whether the music aided those thoughts, or whether the playing was simply the result of a whim or fancy was more than I could determine. I might have rebelled against these exasperating solos had it not been that he usually terminated them by playing in quick succession a whole series of my favourite airs as a slight compensation for the trial upon my patience.

 

[Ayasano]

I should clarify. In the context of the quote and with no other context, he is a fool to suggest that gathering unrelated knowledge is useless. I was not implying that he was a fool at everything.

 

[JDHollisterTitor]

I should clarify. In the context of the quote and with no other context, he is a fool to suggest that gathering unrelated knowledge is useless. I was not implying that he was a fool at everything.

He wasn't suggesting that. He just suggested he gathers only useful information.
The fool is the trump card. The Fool (Tarot card) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JDHollisterTitor]

Sharing a Mountain Hut with a Cloud
A lonely hut on the mountain-peak towering above a thousand others;
One half is occupied by an old monk and the other by a cloud:
Last night it was stormy and the cloud was blown away;
After all a cloud could not equal the old man's quiet way.
Kuei-tsung Chih-chih, a monk who lived in a humble hut on Lu-shan (盧山Rozan)
-------------

Mindfulness
春有百花秋有月 Spring comes with its flowers, autumn with the moon,
夏有涼風冬有雪summer with breezes, winter with snow;
若無閑事挂心頭when useless things don't stick in the mind,
更是人間好時節 that is your best season.
Wu-men Huai-kai (無門慧開 Mumon Ekai), from Wu-men kuan (Mumonkan) case 19
(The Light Inside the Dark 97)
春有百花秋有月 The spring flowers, the autumn moon;
夏有涼風冬有雪 Summer breezes, winter snow.
若無閑事挂心頭 If useless things do not clutter your mind,
更是人間好時節 You have the best days of your life.
(Two Zen Classics 73)
春有百花秋有月 Hundreds of spring flowers; the autumnal moon;
夏有涼風冬有雪 A refreshing summer breeze; winter snow;
若無閑事挂心頭 Free thy mind of all idle thoughts,
更是人間好時節 And for thee how enjoyable every season is!
(Essays in Zen Buddhism – First Series 349)
春有百花秋有月 Hundreds of flowers in the spring, the moon in the autumn,
夏有涼風冬有雪 A cool breeze in summer; and snow in winter;
若無閑事挂心頭 If there is no vain cloud in your mind
更是人間好時節 For you it is a good season.
-------------

一字七字三五字 One, seven, three, five.
萬象窮夾不爲拠 What you search for cannot be grasped.
夜深月白下滄溟 As the night deepens, the moon brightens over the ocean.
捜得驪珠有多許 The black dragon's jewel is found in every wave.
Looking for the moon, it is here in this wave and the next.

-------------
身是菩提樹 This body is the Bodhi-tree,
心如明鏡台 The soul is like a mirror bright;
時時勤拂拭 Take heed to keep it always clean,
莫使惹塵埃 And let no dust collect on it. Shen-hsiu


菩提本無樹 The Bodhi is not like the tree,
明鏡亦非台 The mirror bright is nowhere shining;
本夾無一物 As there is nothing from the first,
何處惹塵埃 Where can the dust itself collect? Hui-neng

 

[Ayasano]

I should clarify. In the context of the quote and with no other context, he is a fool to suggest that gathering unrelated knowledge is useless. I was not implying that he was a fool at everything.

He wasn't suggesting that. He just suggested he gathers only useful information.
The fool is the trump card. The Fool (Tarot card) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the contrary, read the quote again. That's exactly what he's suggesting.

"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently; "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."